Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • The case against the US-based ride-hailing giant is being brought on behalf of over 10,800 drivers.View the full article
    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

What if the Judge asks..................... ....


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4516 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 322
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

From a few cases I have seen here , the judge seems to hold the opinion , that if you do owe the money ..regardless of a CCA or a DN not in order et all, then he will rule for the creditor , regardless of your defence . So , I would say , No .. your honour , I do not owe the money .

I fully agree with this statement as I found out to my dismay today.

Link to post
Share on other sites

how can judges IGNORE the law?!!!!!!!!! seriously 'how'???? Are they somehow allowed an opinion that over-rules all things - are they gods????

 

Any legal experts able to explain this???

They are of the opinion that if you owe it then you are morally obliged to pay it. They are not interested in all the goings on in between and how the DCA's bully and lie to grab back the money thay have paid a few pennies to the pound for.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are several strands of legal theory based on variants of Legal Realism.

 

The common factor in these theories of law is that the law is what happens in specific cases.

 

An extreme (and extremely cynical) version of this is that the law is not determined by what Parliament or the House of Lords say it is but what district judges say it is.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am wondering if it would be worthwhile actually printing out the relevant section of the CCA 1974 and ask the judge if he is familiar with it and if so could he with his legal wisdom explain it to everyone assembled in court as for a layman it is mighty confusing.............surely getting him to read out the relevant passages make it impossible for him to rule for the creditor if the agreement in question has no prescribed terms on it, plus it removes the chance of a maverick judge taking it upon himself to take the law into his own hands as he would be slated at appeal.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some good answers here, but make sure you don't get the judges back up by not giving a straight answer or suggesting that the question is irrelevant. You want to keep him/her on side, so tread carefully. ;)

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

this cannot be right?!?

 

Does the law not say if x is missing etc then it is simply unenforceable? What law therefore makes it enforceable? I mean this is a shocking revelation. I'm sure many people on CAG think their CCAs are unenforceable because of clause this and act that so how come this may not apply in court?

 

I simply do not get it????

Link to post
Share on other sites

As well as template letters and defence notes. I think CAG needs a list of things to say, and not to say to a judge. A bit like they do in job interviews when they ask akward questions like, "What makes you frustrated?" If you're prepared for likely questions and answers that put the onus on the creditor to prove themselves to the letter of the law, then I think CAG would score a few more victories.

These are video links to show how I deal with Debt Collectors.

 

Fly fishing for C.A.R.S

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPtzK8FqE6k&feature=related

 

Frederickson International don't accept my card type

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZBULlWW6Q&feature=related

Link to post
Share on other sites

Every case is different fuzzybobble, and people have to answer honestly. It's precisely because you can never tell what will be said in court, that it's vital that people understand their own cases, and the laws that affect them thoroughly. That's the way to have answers ready.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Apologies if I'm repeating myself but if regs etc state debt unenforceable if this or that is missing then why should it matter what we say to the judge???

 

Please somebody explain as I'd only just decided to give up all this paying mimimum payment each month (ie life-time term) with all my salary gone - in fact not enough. I am now approaching a few default issues and I had thought that the lack of prescribed terms would be a clear cut issue and the worst I could face would be years and years of harassment..... :(

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't hurt to cover the common questions though. After all we have to try and stay one step ahead of the DCA's. Sort of a battle of wits. They come up with something, and we have to come up with something to counter it. It's a non stop battle where if we stick to one line of defence, then sooner or later they'll find a way to counteract it.

These are video links to show how I deal with Debt Collectors.

 

Fly fishing for C.A.R.S

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPtzK8FqE6k&feature=related

 

Frederickson International don't accept my card type

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZBULlWW6Q&feature=related

Link to post
Share on other sites

Apologies if I'm repeating myself but if regs etc state debt unenforceable if this or that is missing then why should it matter what we say to the judge???

 

Please somebody explain as I'd only just decided to give up all this paying mimimum payment each month (ie life-time term) with all my salary gone - in fact not enough. I am now approaching a few default issues and I had thought that the lack of prescribed terms would be a clear cut issue and the worst I could face would be years and years of harassment..... :(

 

You're right. But some judges are pro banks. They see litigants in person as 3rd rate, and don't really matter. Then you have to appeal which then starts to get very costly. The courts system is more geared up to the wealthy and how much money you can throw at defending something that should be simple if the law is in black and white. But when you get bankers and judges who are in the freemasons, etc. Then lots of things go on behind closed doors that in a decent society shouldn't happen at all. But we live in a country where corruption and dodgy dealings are rife.

 

That's why it's important that groups like CAG fight them. Lots of little people who would otherwise be walked all over, can now make a stand and make a difference. It will be a long hard fight. But one we can win if for once the people of the UK finally wake up and stick together. :)

It is starting to happen. But it won't happen overnight.

These are video links to show how I deal with Debt Collectors.

 

Fly fishing for C.A.R.S

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPtzK8FqE6k&feature=related

 

Frederickson International don't accept my card type

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eiZBULlWW6Q&feature=related

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had an inkling thatthe system in this country was geared toward those particular sections of society etc but I still thought that the law was the law and if it was clear-cut it was clear-cut. I also assumed that when the law was not so that this is when judges came to the fore and started creating new laws - with middle finger gesture to Parliament as revenge still for Cromwell?

 

I still do not get it! Please somebody explain how judges can defy clear cut laws? If a law says so and so has to be done then this has to be done??? Is this not so?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's down to interpretation wtwt. We may see the law as clear cut, but there is so much legislation it's impossible to know it all. Judges are human and as we know, to err is human.:(

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

this is what i had prepared in my mind

 

Sir…, as you know the law requires a creditor to produce a valid agreement as set out in the 1974 CCA. The act was enacted by government to protect credit consumers, without the agreement I’m unable to check the APR or any other term or condition of the agreement ect, I respectfully ask the court for that protect set out in the act

Then I’d go into the Wilson case in more details with three print outs explaining the case one for me one for the judge and one for the ****

Link to post
Share on other sites

now I do appreciate that one set of law might say this and another completely bit of law will say something else which may contradict that - this is after all a country with no written constitution ... BUT.. which laws exactly can possibly counter the argument against 'unenforcibility' (if that is such a word)

 

To be able to say 'no way' to the prescribed terms (which are defined in law) then a judge would have to make use of some other law which would allow them to 'interpret' things in whatever way they wish?

 

Can anybody explain that? I still do not see how what you say regarding this thread title ie what to say to judge should make one iota of difference unless there is some other legal side we are missing out here????

Link to post
Share on other sites

I reckon judges that ask that kind of question are really looking for an easy way out , especially if they aren't familiar with consumer laws . And are banking on your fear of the situation to give the answer both the judge and the creditors solicitor wants . So they can get it over quickly and meet back in the judges chambers for a few brandy's before lunchtime.

 

It's not perjury to say 'no, I don't owe them the money ' . Truth is a state of mind really . Just be sure to adopt the right paradigms of what constitutes you owing the money before you get to court .

Edited by Percival Wigglesbottom
Link to post
Share on other sites

So why would anyone want to stand up there and be a martyr for some dubious truth and say .. oh .. yes, I owe every penny . Would the judge get the OC's solicitor up next and swear him into admitting they had no valid cca ? I bet they wouldn't . The truth is an ethereal abstraction to them . Play them at their own game and deny everything .

Link to post
Share on other sites

twofoot's answer is the only one I'd run with. all the others will help the judge rule for the other chap. Many of the answers here would just get the judge's back up.

 

Perjury might be a state of mind, but it is one based on fact.

 

I still do not get it! Please somebody explain how judges can defy clear cut laws?

 

Because often they are not clear cut. You will see that from threads here; there is often alot of debate about the actual meaning. For example in some cases an agreement is not enforceable without an order of the court. It is therefore the judges decision.

 

CAG has some good advice but sometimes this is too assumptive, one size or strategy does not fit all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...