GE Debenhams store card sold to CL finance

[ODC]

They must prove that you have received it in accordance with S136 of the Law of Property Act 1925. How can they prove you got it if they didnt send it recorded or special delivery.

[I've got no money]

They must prove that you have received it in accordance with S136 of the Law of Property Act 1925. How can they prove you got it if they didnt send it recorded or special delivery.

 

Precisely - and even if they can prove delivery a significant percentage of Notices of Assignment are invalid

[joemay]

Precisely - and even if they can prove delivery a significant percentage of Notices of Assignment are invalid

 

Hi, I've got no money, can you elaborate please:)

[I've got no money]

The case law on notices of assignment is somewhat complex but appears to say that the notice only has to tell you who you need to pay HOWEVER if the notice says more - e.g. it gives the date of the assignment or arguably says how much is owed then that information has to be accurate

 

Have a look at

 

WF Harrison & CO LTD v Burke & Anor 1956 [2] All ER 169

[beachcomber60]

Have attached scan of what CL sent, they used UK Mail (why do dca's & creditors use this method as I have found that the date they write the letter to actual delivery is an average of 10 days ! !) it wasnt sent recorded delivery & I have received absolutely nothing from GE relating to it being assigned to CL.

 

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo112/beachcomber49/scan0012.jpg

 

Was I right in sending CCA request to them, way outside the 12+2 days and have had no acknowledgement, although sent recorded so I know they received it.

 

Sent SAR to GE, plenty of penalty charges and I believe PPI until I got it stopped.

 

Beachy

[ODC]

They will have to prove you received the so called notice of assignment

[nicklea]

They will have to prove you received the so called notice of assignment

 

This is not quite true. What they have to prove is that they either served it at your address personally or that they sent it by a registered postal service such as Royal Mail recorded delivery or special delivery.

 

They DON'T have to prove that you received it, only that they sent it by one of those methods.

[ODC]

This is not quite true. What they have to prove is that they either served it at your address personally or that they sent it by a registered postal service such as Royal Mail recorded delivery or special delivery.

 

They DON'T have to prove that you received it, only that they sent it by one of those methods.

 

Welcome to Pedants Corner:grin:

 

Either way sticking it in a 2nd class envelope is useless:cool:

[nicklea]

Welcome to Pedants Corner:grin:

 

You might joke about it, but there is a BIG difference between having to prove that a letter was posted and that it was received.

 

I won a case with a local council involving housing benefit that revolved entirely around whether it was required to demonstrate that a letter was posted or that a letter was received and there have been plenty of high court cases that have involved this point as well.

 

Either way sticking it in a 2nd class envelope is useless:cool:

 

Well of course

[I've got no money]

The NoA arguably doesn't have to be signed by the original creditor

 

What you need to see is the actual assignment - you need to ask for it - you can't really tell if the NoA is valid without seeing the actual assignment

 

You are entitled to see it, although they often fight tooth and nail to avoid giving it to you

 

When you chase up the actual assignment DONT refer to the Notice at all

[beachcomber60]

They can't even provide the cca let alone the NoA!

 

Anybody notice that the amount assigned is blank?

[I've got no money]

They can't even provide the cca let alone the NoA!

 

Anybody notice that the amount assigned is blank?

 

The only thing is that the notice doesn't have to contain the amount - if however the amount is included it, arguably, should be accurate. The notice also doesn't have to contain the date of assignment - if it does it must be accurate

[creditcardmug]

My 2p worth

 

The only two ways you can have confidence that the assignment is genuine is if both the assignor and the assignee writes to you separately declaring the assignment.

Or you have sight of the actual "deed" of assignment.

 

Now there always seems to be a reluctance on the part of one or the other to provide Notices of Assignment (i wonder why, if its a genuine assignment?)

 

They wont show you the deed of assignment, as it is a contract between the two companies, and has sensitive info, such as how much was paid for it etc.

The only way to see this is if the matter is in court, and you demand sight of it, and the court orders it

[I've got no money]

My 2p worth

 

The only two ways you can have confidence that the assignment is genuine is if both the assignor and the assignee writes to you separately declaring the assignment.

Or you have sight of the actual "deed" of assignment.

 

Now there always seems to be a reluctance on the part of one or the other to provide Notices of Assignment (i wonder why, if its a genuine assignment?)

 

They wont show you the deed of assignment, as it is a contract between the two companies, and has sensitive info, such as how much was paid for it etc.

The only way to see this is if the matter is in court, and you demand sight of it, and the court orders it

 

As a matter of law you are entitled to see the deed to satisfy yourself as to its' validity BUT as creditcardmug points out they will fight tooth and nail not to show you the deed and that the only way you get it, usually, is in proceedings where the Court has no alternative but to Order its' production. Even then you still may not get it as some claimants are prepared to have their case struck out rather than disclose the assignment.

 

The other thing is that as a matter of law there is no such thing as commercial confidentiality...

[creditcardmug]

It can get even more complicated, as in one of mine where Morgan Stanley sold it to Goldfish, who then sold it to barclaycard, who in turn sold it to cabot...so all these deeds would have to be produced in court to prove ownership.

[beachcomber60]

"....claimants are prepared to have their case struck out rather than disclose the assignment."

 

Sounds good to me, especially as I cant get the cca either, taken out 1997 - 1999 approx.

[creditcardmug]

Another interesting point on this...as i understand it, these accounts are passed by the banks to a "broker", who sorts them into bundles of maybe hundreds, for auction to the likes of CL,cabot etc, these are merely lists of names/addresses/amounts on a cd...so it could be that a legal document for each one never actually existed.

Maybe another reason for their reluctance!

[I've got no money]

It can get even more complicated, as in one of mine where Morgan Stanley sold it to Goldfish, who then sold it to barclaycard, who in turn sold it to cabot...so all these deeds would have to be produced in court to prove ownership.

 

Exactly...don't forget that what they say is an assignment may not be...

[beachcomber60]

To bring this up to date, CL have not responded within 12+2 days to provide the cca - not even an aclnowledgement, to show I was acting reasonably I wrote reminding them of their obligations under a request for my cca & gave them another 7 days in which to provide it - again completely ignored, nothing, nowt, zilch.

 

SAR sent to GE Money and they have acknowledged my request for ALL information/statements etc. and should have it within their estimate of 4 weeks.

 

Beachy

[joemay]

It can get even more complicated, as in one of mine where Morgan Stanley sold it to Goldfish, who then sold it to barclaycard, who in turn sold it to cabot...so all these deeds would have to be produced in court to prove ownership.

 

Hi Creditcardmug, (sorry to butt in on your thread beachcomber06) do you have a thread regarding your situation, could you post your link here, as OH acct was sold from one bank to another, and I'd be interested to read how things are going with your situation, i.e. did they manager to locate CCA etc.

 

Thanks

Joemay

[beachcomber60]

Bump for advice #44

 

What's the best way to get CL to comply without sending them into a hissy fit & them issuing court papers via their 'partners', don't mind going to court but not ready yet as too busy with Capone & Barclayshark/Mercers the Merciless at the moment to open up a third battle line.

[creditcardmug]

Hi Creditcardmug, (sorry to butt in on your thread beachcomber06) do you have a thread regarding your situation, could you post your link here, as OH acct was sold from one bank to another, and I'd be interested to read how things are going with your situation, i.e. did they manager to locate CCA etc.

 

Thanks

Joemay

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/145951-morgan-stanley-goldfish-barclaycard.html

[sunflower99]

Hi Beachy!

I have seen quite a few threads about CL fiance!They are a bunch of plonkers!They often take people to court but as sooon as the victim shows they knows their rights puts in a good defence with help of CAG they usualy turn tail and run and shoot themselves in foot several times by doing all kinds of things wrong like not responding to CPR requests or paperwork.A lot of the time when the debter puts up a defence it quite often never gets past the courtroom door and often they just give up and the case is eventually put aside byt the judge!

[beachcomber60]

Mornin' SF

 

Yeap CL have ignored both my requests so I may wait for GE sar response before I decide which way to play this one out, either try The 31.16 route or stop payments & let them take me to court & screw it up in the process, by what I read it's quite common for them to mess it up.

 

Store card is soooooooo old that I wonder if the cca still exsists!

 

Beachy

[sunflower99]

Mornin' SF

 

Yeap CL have ignored both my requests so I may wait for GE sar response before I decide which way to play this one out, either try The 31.16 route or stop payments & let them take me to court & screw it up in the process, by what I read it's quite common for them to mess it up.

 

Store card is soooooooo old that I wonder if the cca still exsists!

 

Beachy

Hi Beachy

Thats great! I see you got quite a lot of threads going on! You certainly busy keeping all these ratty DCAs on their toes!