GE Debenhams store card sold to CL finance

[meerkatsmimm]

IGNM - I had a letter from GE (a few in fact for each account) stating that there 'were no longer any monies owed' on the account. Not statements from them but actually hand signed letters in response to my CCA request. The lady very kindly informed me that because I no longer owed any money on the account, GE were not liable, under CCA 1974, to provide me with my agreement.

Edited May 3, 2009 by meerkatsmimm

[meerkatsmimm]

Beachy, I know you didn't think I was 'hijacking' your thread - you just want the answers - like me!

 

I've not received and notification of assignment other than the letter from CL.

 

I also have sent payments to them for all accounts.

 

I've CCA'd them, and now CPR'd them. I'ce SAR'd GE, as well as CCA'd them. Nothing from anyone on this front.

 

This month I've written to CL with a letter along the lines, I'm so overwhelmed with all my debts i've just realised I've ben paying you and don't know why. Can you please confirm by supplying the relevant paperwork wny I owe you any money?

 

I think its a case of hammering them again and again until you get a response - harder than you'd think.

 

The only good thing for us beachy (touch wood) is that CL haven't taken us to court!

 

meerkatsmimm

[I've got no money]

IGNM - I had a letter from GE (a few in fact for each account) stating that there 'were no longer any monies owed' on the account. Not statements from them but actually hand signed letters in response to my CCA request. The lady very kindly informed me that because I no longer owed any money on the account, GE were not liable, under CCA 1974, to provide me with my agreement.

 

 

Well I think that CL would struggle to prove the debt BUT I would still like to see the letters - If they issued then you'd plead that there was nothing outstanding and then in the course of the case exhibit the letters

[foolishgirl]

Meerkat, could you start a new thread on this please?

 

I know it's all concerned with GE & CL but it seems as though you have several accounts in dispute & I think it would be helpful to CAGers if you could start a new thread specifying the details of your particular accounts, letters, NOAs etc. (remove all personal details if you post up docs.)

Edited May 3, 2009 by foolishgirl
typos

[meerkatsmimm]

I have done already foolishgirl

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/store-cards/193305-ge-money-no-longer.html#post2089937

 

Thanks

[meerkatsmimm]

Beachy,

 

Was looking online and saw this

 

Debt collection: Recovering the debt through third parties

 

Worth a look.

 

meerkatsmimm

[beachcomber60]

Okay dokay

 

Will have a butchers l8er.

 

Beachy

[beachcomber60]

Interesting development today - still nothing from CL with regard to my cca (initial request & reminder both ignored).

 

However, I have received my SAR from GE, disappointing as they only supplied statements from Apr '03 to June '08, together with an apology that they cannot provide statements for 10 months between '03 & '08.

I know for a fact that there are a lot more late payment charges on the account then what they are stating.

 

There were no other details included in the SAR (which I requested a full disclosure), states that debt passsed to CL Aug '07 - this is wrong as it was 'alledgedly' passed to CL Aug '08 - No DN or NoA supplied with the SAR.

 

Now the interesting bit - although I sent a cca request to CL (which has been ignored) in their SAR covering letter GE have stated that 'Account was opened **/**/1989. Unfortunately, due to the amount of time that has elapsed, we are no longer able to retrieve a copy of your original Application form.

 

The total amount of insurance premiums that have been levied to this account is £2,***.**.

 

So my question of today is whats my next step.

[meerkatsmimm]

Hey Beachy,

 

Surely that is good news for you.

 

Did they say they had no application form for you, or no agreement, or are they assuming the application is the agreement?

 

I'd say that if GE have no original agreement then CL have nothing on you at all - nothing that'll hold up in court anyway.

 

I'd be asking them to write off the debt due to unenforceability -but then I *think* I know things but still haven't got my head around it really.

 

Hopefully someone from the site team can help out here.

 

meerkatsmimm

[foolishgirl]

 

There were no other details included in the SAR (which I requested a full disclosure), states that debt passsed to CL Aug '07 - this is wrong as it was 'alledgedly' passed to CL Aug '08 - No DN or NoA supplied with the SAR.

 

Hmm...passed (as in for admin for collection purposes) or assigned (as in purchased) ?? Bit vague isn't it?

 

Now the interesting bit - although I sent a cca request to CL (which has been ignored) in their SAR covering letter GE have stated that 'Account was opened **/**/1989. Unfortunately, due to the amount of time that has elapsed, we are no longer able to retrieve a copy of your original Application form.

 

Yeahhhh! Hurrah!

 

So my question of today is whats my next step.

 

No agreement, no enforceable debt. CL are stuffed. You now have a choice:

1. You can write & tell them you will not be making any more payments & suggest they write the debt off completely as it is unenforceable due to no agreement being available - refer them to letter from GE

 

2. You can offer them a small F&F on condition that they mark your credit reference files 'satisfied' & remove the default that they had no right to place on there as no agreement exists between you, GE or CL that would give them that authority.

 

The latter has the advantage that you get shot of the debt for all time & your credit rating improved.

[beachcomber60]

Hey Beachy,

 

Surely that is good news for you.

 

Did they say they had no application form for you, or no agreement, or are they assuming the application is the agreement?

 

I'd say that if GE have no original agreement then CL have nothing on you at all - nothing that'll hold up in court anyway.

 

I'd be asking them to write off the debt due to unenforceability -but then I *think* I know things but still haven't got my head around it really.

 

Hopefully someone from the site team can help out here.

 

meerkatsmimm

 

 

Morning (oops Afternoon),

 

Yes hopefully someone more knowledgeable then me can advice, they state they no longer have a copy of my original application, which I would imagine be the agreement that I signed in store, either way I think its looking good as they have stated they have charged over £2k in insurance premiums which I never agreed to as Iam self employed so if the cant find the application/agreement I would think their pretty well stuffed.

 

(Well thats my theory anyway)

 

Beachy

[beachcomber60]

No agreement, no enforceable debt. CL are stuffed. You now have a choice:

1. You can write & tell them you will not be making any more payments & suggest they write the debt off completely as it is unenforceable due to no agreement being available - refer them to letter from GE

 

2. You can offer them a small F&F on condition that they mark your credit reference files 'satisfied' & remove the default that they had no right to place on there as no agreement exists between you, GE or CL that would give them that authority.

 

The latter has the advantage that you get shot of the debt for all time & your credit rating improved.

 

Thanks FG,

 

I had a NoA from CL, but nothing from GE - not received a default notice either (not received one anyway).

 

On GE's letter it just states 'debt passed to CL Finance'.

 

If they've taken over £2k in PPI (which I cannot remember agreeing to) surely I would be in a very strong position to get this back or use it as F&F settlement?

 

Beachy

[diamondgirl]

However, I have received my SAR from GE, disappointing as they only supplied statements from Apr '03 to June '08, together with an apology that they cannot provide statements for 10 months between '03 & '08.

I know for a fact that there are a lot more late payment charges on the account then what they are stating.

 

There were no other details included in the SAR (which I requested a full disclosure), states that debt passsed to CL Aug '07 - this is wrong as it was 'alledgedly' passed to CL Aug '08 - No DN or NoA supplied with the SAR.

 

It's amazing so they couldn't provide some statements between 03 and 08 must be a computer error - my SAR came back with some statements missing between those years but they did manage to type out dates, payments, some purchases and definately interest. What a load of plonkers.

 

I really hope you kick their axxxx good and proper.

Good Luck

DG:D

[beachcomber60]

It's amazing so they couldn't provide some statements between 03 and 08 must be a computer error - my SAR came back with some statements missing between those years but they did manage to type out dates, payments, some purchases and definately interest. What a load of plonkers.

 

I really hope you kick their axxxx good and proper.

Good Luck

DG:D

 

Hi DG,

 

They quote 'regrettably, due to system issues ......'

 

Bit of a coincident, but I had a letter last week telling me that they are reviewing my pro rata payments & they require a new I&E statement, Guess wot? They aint getting it now ! !

 

 

Beachy

[diamondgirl]

Ya if they ask me for one (or Link who is supposed to own it) they aint getting one from me either it's 12 months since I went on the DMP so I suppose they will be asking for one well they can shove it where it hurts :D

[beachcomber60]

Ya if they ask me for one (or Link who is supposed to own it) they aint getting one from me either it's 12 months since I went on the DMP so I suppose they will be asking for one well they can shove it where it hurts :D

 

 

OUCH !

 

Thinking about sending GE a cca request to get it confirmed, although what I had this morning kinda explains why CL have ignored my letters.

 

Beachy

[beachcomber60]

To play safe, should I send a cca request to confirm they haven't got an agreement, just concerned that they state application form and not agreement, or did applications back then also double as the actual agreements.

 

I suppose also that if they no longer have the enforceable agreement & I go the debt write off route I'll have to forgo the ppi reclaim.

 

Just me being negative.

 

Beachy

[I've got no money]

To play safe, should I send a cca request to confirm they haven't got an agreement, just concerned that they state application form and not agreement, or did applications back then also double as the actual agreements.

 

I suppose also that if they no longer have the enforceable agreement & I go the debt write off route I'll have to forgo the ppi reclaim.

 

Just me being negative.

 

Beachy

 

I'm not sure about that - don't forget that an unenforceable agreement is only unenforceable against the debtor - the debtor can enforce it against the creditor - you'd need to be careful how you did it tho'

[beachcomber60]

I'm not sure about that - don't forget that an unenforceable agreement is only unenforceable against the debtor - the debtor can enforce it against the creditor - you'd need to be careful how you did it tho'

 

Not quite with you on that one, did you mean the cca request or the ppi element?

[I've got no money]

I mean the PPI element

[beachcomber60]

I mean the PPI element

 

Gotcha - I know wot you mean now

[foolishgirl]

 

If they've taken over £2k in PPI (which I cannot remember agreeing to) surely I would be in a very strong position to get this back or use it as F&F settlement?

 

I'm not sure about that - don't forget that an unenforceable agreement is only unenforceable against the debtor - the debtor can enforce it against the creditor - you'd need to be careful how you did it tho'

 

If you are in a postion to do so, I'd seriously think about deducting the PPI from the current o/s debt, then offering 10% of that total, pointing out to CL the mis-sold PPI & the unenforceable agreement. 2 for 1 deals always make me feel happy

[beachcomber60]

If you are in a postion to do so, I'd seriously think about deducting the PPI from the current o/s debt, then offering 10% of that total, pointing out to CL the mis-sold PPI & the unenforceable agreement. 2 for 1 deals always make me feel happy

 

Thanks FG - sounds good

 

Have worked out the figures :- outstanding balance - ppi & late payment charges then 10% F&F settlement would be about £120 (without taking any interest into consideration).

 

Trouble is I am totally confused as to who owns to debt CL or GE.

 

CL says they have NoA and everything to be paid to them GE sent me a balance statement and new I&E form to complete.

 

CL have completely ignored my cca request and GE say the account is so old the agreement/application is no longer available

 

Beachy

[foolishgirl]

Perhaps you should write to CL with the offer but stipulate that, besides the other conditions, it is made subject to them confirming in writing that they have been assigned the debt absolutely by GE & that they have currently have full legal entitlement to its ownership, including all legal duties & responsibilities.

[I've got no money]

Perhaps you should write to CL with the offer but stipulate that, besides the other conditions, it is made subject to them confirming in writing that they have been assigned the debt absolutely by GE & that they have currently have full legal entitlement to its ownership, including all legal duties & responsibilities.

 

I think that is a good idea BUT I would ask them to provide a copy of the original assignment. I also think that the letter should indicate that you don't accept that their earlier letter is a valid notice of assignment