let down badly by the union

[monkeychicken]

I had my second Case Management Discussion yesterday. The ET case was based on my grievance submitted in Dec 2007. Union agreed to look at my complaint then and make an assessment whether to support an ET claim. In the meantime they submitted an ET1, as I repeatedly pointed out that I would be out of time otherwise.

 

Before the employer responded to my grievance (i.e. without anyexplanations provided to my allegations) the Union solicitors made an assessment that there was no case to answer.

 

Then I get the employer response and find that there were many cases of attempts to gloss over/ cover up. They did not follow their own procedures etc. I asked the Union to reevaluate the case, but they never returned my calls (none of the officers were in when I called -ever!), never answered my email (I have evidence that they read them - read receipts) and I even turned up at the offices but of course, no official was available to see me. I left messages but they never contacted me.

 

So far I documented these failings (well most anyway).

 

I eventually made a complaint (8 weeks ago) to the regional head but did not go into every detail, as I expected them to come back to me for detail. A few days ago got a letter that the regional head could not determine my complaint as she was unsure as to who it is that failed to respond to my calls etc. So I have now escalated and put a stage 3 complaint to the national body.

 

I have also discovered my Union rep has given me duff legal advice.

 

 

While waiting for the CMD, got talking to another claimant, who paid for her own solicitor. It seems to me that she had a very strong case. The solicitor seemed quite happy after her CMD and was thinking about the amount of damages, rather than whether they will win. But to my surprise her Union seems to have let her down very badly also.

 

So it got me thinking - surely its too much of a coincidence. Who else had bad experience with the unions and any advice on what recourse I might have?

 

I feel Unions are there to protect us and surely if they are failing we should try and do something (also please see Jervis v Unison). I am actually a strong believer in Trade Unioninsm

 

 

 

For those interested, the employer tried to throw out my case on the grounds of out of time and also tried to have portions struck out, they also contested the disclosures I asked for.

 

I represented myself and the Judge ruled that my case was not out of time, agreed that it may be a continuing act and therefore all of the case needs to be heard and made a disclosure order.

 

I did have to drop the sex discrimination claim (but I knew that it really had no legs right from the start anyway)

 

Case will be listed for five days in April/May/June but I have said that I would go to judicial mediation. We shall see how it progresses and Ill keep theose intersted informed.

[monkeychicken]

anyone care to advise?

i'll be eternally grateful

thanks

[misselle]

Ive had similar experiences with my union, there a waste of space and money, Ive been signed off sick for 6 months almost due to bullying from my manager, I turned to the union for help and see if they would take on my case however i was told that they wouldnt as my manager is also the chair of the union. My belief was that the union was there for everyone and now i think they arent worth anything.

[crane9]

I had the exact same thing happen to me with my union. The union solicitors said that as far as they could tell it was my word against my employers and advised the union as such. The union then left me high and dry and without a job or representation.

I then went to a no-win no-fee solicitor and continued my action against my former employer. Although I did alot of the donkey work myself case law and such the solicitor was quite useful as far as leading me in the right direction.

Come the day of my tribunal in Birmingham and after turning down £12,000 the previous evening, I got an out of court settlement of £17,000 as they were so desperate not to go into the tribunal.

Unfortunately for me, I then had to pay the solicitor £2,000 out of that compensation, as you might already know that if the tribunal would have taken place, under the law there ias no provision for costs, and as far as I am concerned that should have been met by the union.

I have considered writing to the union to see if I might get them to pay me the solicitors costs, by the way this was back in June2007. Am still considering it now and might even consider taking legal action against them if necessary using contract law, as I am almost convinced that the unions claims of full support for all will be a good place to start. After all they are very happy to keep taking money off people and doing very little for it, except that is they make sure that they're secretary second homes are well payed for and furnished by the members and a nice top of the range car to boot.

[Agathachristie]

Hi I was let down as well. The difficult thing for me was that they changed 3 times lawyers without my knowledge and then the new one did not get back to me. They say success is not more than 50% so they do not take the case.

I fight the case alone now. Tomorrow case management discussion. Wish me luck!

[Sali]

Are you saying you're intending to go to a tribunal hearing on your own AgathaChristie? I've a feeling you'll be a lamb to slaughter. The opposition's lawyer will run rings round you - that's what they are trained to do. Can you not cancel? Are your union not obliged to help you regardless of the chances of winning?

 

If you do go ahead, good luck, but I really think you won't win against any silver tongued lawyer.

[Agathachristie]

The union is obliged to nothing! I am a fighter anyway so lets see how it goes. I have done some cases in Germany for friends but no experience here. Though I am not a lawyer.

[Sali]

...then good luck. I thought if you pay union fees then they are obliged to help. However, I've never belonged to a union in my life and probably, after reading this posting, won't ever join one.

[Agathachristie]

Just thought to give you an update of today. The judge was GREAT! I mean I was alone, the first time ever in an employment tribunal and had to represent myself. THANKS TO THE UNION! (T&G to name it!).

So that was just the case management but the other side did come closer at least. I told them that I rather lose in court than settle for nearly nothing. As the hearing will take 8 days that should give them some thoughts.

[zazen.warrior]

I used to be a staunch trade unionist; I paid into UNISON for years. The first time I needed help I spent more time listening the rep telling me how stressed he was than anything else and got no help whatsoever.

 

At the end of the day the only person you can rely on is yourself.

 

I would never join a union again - and I wish I could get all my subs back

[shifty50dog]

Hi i know how you feel about unions waste of space.In my complaint against a very large car company starting with the letter J I allways felt the union were on the managements side the T@G I even contacted t.w head of said union hes just bent more interested in his grace and favour house in london.I left the car company with nothing after 10 years service feel very bitter against the supervision on that site just thugs after they done there dirty deed on me ran and hid behind the corrupt hr dept **** of the earth these people.

[Agathachristie]

Why are the unions behind the HR department then? What do they fear?

[monkeychicken]

I think the Unions are now tryig to work more in 'partnership' with the employers. This is because of what happened in the late 80's and 90's. This partnership approach only works if the employer is genuinely interested in upholding employees rights, but as soon as financial pressure makes them look at cutting costs, they will try to chip away at the rights and with a compliant union, its quite easy.

 

Look at the mess the Local Authorities are with equal pay and the Unions accepted lower settlement figures from the employers because they were told that jobs might be at risk. It took Stefan Cross to bring the employers to heel and then the Unions (I expect he also made a tidy sum in the process!).

 

For those interested, google Jervis v Unison case (Jervis lost because he did not identify the issues in his ET1 and by the time the case was heard, he was out of time.

 

I am thinking about taking my Union to tribunal and also to the civil courts to recover all my subscriptions I paid over the years.

[zazen.warrior]

It took me a very long time to realise that HR are a tool of the management and as such they are capable of some very low down dirty tricks; once upon a time I believed they were there to help the employees but this is simply not the case.

 

They are there to cover up for their employers. They lie (and happily sign their names to lies.) I had one putting an expression into my mouth which I had never used and didn’t even know the meaning of until I looked it up!

 

The expression was ‘managed out’ and I allegedly told my manager she was doing this to me.

 

As I say at the time I had no idea what this expression meant and had certainly never used it. I do now and it had clearly been used in reference to me for it to crop up in a supposed account of a meeting with me – an account which was in fact a total work of fiction.

 

And I used to think HR was a ‘nice’ job.

[shifty50dog]

[QU OTE=zazen.warrior;1958302]It took me a very long time to realise that HR are a tool of the management and as such they are capable of some very low down dirty tricks; once upon a time I believed they were there to help the employees but this is simply not the case.

Hr have a duty of care to protect employees but when you make a complaint you then find out that they are biased towards the supervision and management and will lie at all costs to protect the liars these people are vermin.And the unions are weak and feable and allow them to get away with it,

They are there to cover up for their employers. They lie (and happily sign their names to lies.) I had one putting an expression into my mouth which I had never used and didn’t even know the meaning of until I looked it up!

 

The expression was ‘managed out’ and I allegedly told my manager she was doing this to me.

 

As I say at the time I had no idea what this expression meant and had certainly never used it. I do now and it had clearly been used in reference to me for it to crop up in a supposed account of a meeting with me – an account which was in fact a total work of fiction.

 

And I used to think HR was a ‘nice’ job.

[orfoster]

I am so sorry to hear of all of your bad experiances with unions.

 

I am quite a young newly trained rep.

 

I always provide support and help to my members to the best of my ability but sometimes people expect so much more, yes it is stressful, I do say no but I help alot of people with issues and I always respond to peoples questions even if I can't help them.

 

Sometimes I don't get answers from upstairs which is frustrating and it looks like i'm not trying.

 

I became a rep oddly because I experianced problems with my local rep and wanted to help people. We don't get paid but I enjoy helping people, the worry is sometimes the workload does get high.

 

You are quite right to be honest, if you help yourself you are in a better position, as you have seen the judge is very understanding and will cater for you. Thats what happened to me a year ago.

 

All I can say to you all is I agree with most comments, unions are there to help people but sometimes I wonder if they have got too much into other things than what they set out to do.

 

Just my 2 penneth worth??

[Agathachristie]

Thanks for your informative answer. At the end I think we pay the Union and we do think that we get help for it as well. So it seems that Unions promise to take up cases are not as often the case as they pretend to be.

[orfoster]

I agree.

 

I know this sounds silly but don't stop paying your union subs if you want to lodge a complaint as they may end up helping you with your case and will say a lapse in membership will cause problem.

 

Entirely up to you though.

 

Follow your unions complaints process.

 

Your named union does have problems......

 

Others are better, are there no other reps you can find? The full time union officers are ignoring you? Take the issue to your unions national office and put a complaint together and stress the timing is important.

 

I don't know the ins and outs of your main problem but I wanted to help sort the problem you are having with your union.