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    • thread title updated. so a sold debt. who are the solicitors? TM legal? why didn't ovo do this themselves as they do but chose to sell the debt on for 10p=£1? funny debt you state you reived a letter of claim, why did you not reply too it.? also is there is no indication of the date this bill comes from on the claimform? how do you know its from 2022? what other previous paperwork have you received? please scan page 1 of the claimform and bothsides of ALL previous letters upto one mass pdf read upload carefully. .................. pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’. Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time. You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID. You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.  then log in to the bulk court Website https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/466952-lowelloverdales-claimform-old-cap1-debt/?do=findComment&comment=5260464 .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant] ... https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/ type your name ONLY Do Not sign anything .do not ever use or give an email . you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork  you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count] ..............  
    • Thank you again. I'm hoping it will come out in the wash and will endeavour to check my online account. I'm a bit unsettled by not hearing from Booking.com but the host is sounding helpful at the moment. HB
    • I've just remembered that a friend of mine had bookings cancelled on Booking.com about a month ago - and the good news is that all worked out in the wash. I'm at work now but will scribble properly in a couple of hours with the full tale.
    • Thank you Dave. I've had nothing from Booking.com, just a message via the site from the host. I know I need to check my bank account, just trying to resolve some technical issues. HB  
    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business Centre Name of the Claimant ? JC INTERNATIONAL AQUISITION How many defendant's  joint or self ? Self Date of issue – 22 May 2024  Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – 1. The def owes the claimant £300 in respect of gas and electricity charges supplied by OVO. 2. Debt was assigned to the claimant with notice given to the def. 3. Despite formal demand the def has failed to pay the debt and the claimant claims £300 and further claims interest pursuant to s69 of the CCA 1984. What is the total value of the claim? £385 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Energy debt When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Moved home and they were the current energy supplier  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax/Etc...) ? No Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt assigned to JC International Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not sure probably  Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Again can't remember but probably  Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No Why did you cease payments? Changed supplier What was the date of your last payment? Never  Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No
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Morgan Stanley CCA received from Barclaycard morgan stanley


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looks enforcable to me, but have posted up to see what peoples thoughts are on this. It was sent to me on two sheets of A3 stapled together so not sure if the scan is readable. One thing i did notice today is that points 6 and 7 appear to have been blanked out by them - probably just splitting hairs here but seems a bit weird (top right on first page) - any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

CCA.pdf

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I would consider rejecting that as enforceable as it is obviously an application form, how do you know whether you were signing an agreement for a standard or platinum card.

 

Prescribed terms look like they are not on the signature page.

 

Crap scan probrably shredded the original, its up to you but I would tell them to sling their hook.

 

Sections 6 and 7 probrably relate to PPI.

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A document can consist of MANY pages, and the Prescribed terms dont have to be on the signature page although they should be before the signature.

 

It looks like they have just tagged this on.....?? the fonts dont look quite the same and of course it is a different size.

 

you have to "break the link" between the two.

 

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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it actually states "your application may not be successful" ? so application it is

patrickq1

 

Not quite......

 

As much as we would like that to be the case....an application can double as an agreement if it complies with the regs......like this one "may" do.

 

the problem as I see it is the second page........we need to discredit it or take it out of the equation, or it may well make the agreement enforceable

 

rgds

 

dae

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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some interesting points made here. Although it was a long time ago, i think i applied for this one when collared at the airport many many years ago. i can't see any relationship between the first and second page though (although maybe it was on the reverse of the form? The sig is my hand writing, as is the date, but everything else on the form is not - its must have been done by the person when they 'got me' (sure it was Man airport actually)..

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The crux is can you present a legal argument in court to show the two are not linked and then use 127(3) as your defence..

 

I personally think its a goer as there is nothing to link the sheets.

 

On the fact that points 6 & 7 are missing the regs do state that the agreement must be ledgable...( see below)

 

I would write back and point this out and put the account in dispute until you get a reply

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI1983/1557) Section 2(1)

 

2. Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

Live Life-Debt Free

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Nice one B3 I didn't think of that:eek:

 

I still have a problem with it.......

 

its ok to say that P2 was not on the reverse......but can the creditor convince the judge.......hmmmmm quite possibly, creditors are nice upstanding members of the community who lend people money, and bend over backwards to help.............yeah right

 

the agreement makes reference to other terms and conditions elswhere, and as long as the main prescribed terms are within the agreement, then it is enforceable.

 

you need to be able to break the link

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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No problem...I have come to learn its all in the paperwork.

 

I had a simular thing with a MBNA Virgin card which was assigned to a DCA...they provided various bit and bobs that didnt match so I refused to pay....when the Northampton claim came through I defended on the basis that the agreement didn't contain the prescribed terms and they had an application and T&Cs

 

I managed to find an MBNA agreement that did contain all the terms and had this as part of my court bundle to show what the executed agreement should look like...when the DCA solicitor reveiwed the case and realised what my argument would be the case was withdrawn......its since been reasigned to Cabot and we enjoy the odd letter and conversation from time to time!

Live Life-Debt Free

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i take it then the main precribed terms on this form are in point 11 of the form. The second page does look like its not part of the form, but rather some of the T's and C's that were in force under Morgan Stanley at the time... Think this could be a tough one to argue... non-the-less i may be willing to give it ago (it took them long enough to come up with this anyway - almost 2 months in fact). I have Subject Access Request'd them as well to see what charges there may be on the account. Needless to say i haven't paid them last month and received a 12 default charge and a 12 over limit fee as a result of not paying them..

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Send them a letter stating that you dont belive that they have complied with the Act, in that the it is obvious that p2 is not part of the agreement

 

start it off with "I do not acknowledge any debt to your company", and mention that the agreement does not contain the prescribed terms.

 

state that the account is in dispute and they should not try to enforce it while an investigation is taking place as it would go against the OFT rules on fair debt collection

 

......there will be a template on here somwhere

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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at least dave i would get the chance of getting them to take me to court dave then let them explain the second PPI i had added to my card and at the same time they recorded the conversation with me as they stated at the time ,i argued then about the second PPI they said it was extra intrest DOH am i that thick,they also instructed me to cut my card up which i did that day it was never used again so they have now had since 2003 to take action instead i have had 7 DCAS ALL TRYING TO COLLECT AND AS YOU KNOW MY FAVOURITE IS HFO lol and they have just had it back in their possesion and as yet have not acted on it i wonder what they are scheming ive not even yet had a copy of any agreement ? and they have had some 12 CCAs asking for the agreement so iam happy with this situation and am enjoying all the correspondance they so kindly send me i have nice chats with them and they enjoy my pink floyd albulms great ere innit lol

patrickq1

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at least dave i would get the chance of getting them to take me to court dave then let them explain the second PPI i had added to my card and at the same time they recorded the conversation with me as they stated at the time ,i argued then about the second PPI they said it was extra intrest DOH am i that thick,they also instructed me to cut my card up which i did that day it was never used again so they have now had since 2003 to take action instead i have had 7 DCAS ALL TRYING TO COLLECT AND AS YOU KNOW MY FAVOURITE IS HFO lol and they have just had it back in their possesion and as yet have not acted on it i wonder what they are scheming ive not even yet had a copy of any agreement ? and they have had some 12 CCAs asking for the agreement so iam happy with this situation and am enjoying all the correspondance they so kindly send me i have nice chats with them and they enjoy my pink floyd albulms great ere innit lol

patrickq1

 

Hi Patrick...

 

Morgan Stanley is being taken to task by me!

 

they have had their LBA for the charges at the moment, a few days left to run with that one before I can file N1. Then we move onto the "BIG" one :)

 

they aint getting away with it this time :)

 

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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Hi Kstaplet,

 

I have just got my "agreement"!!!!!! from Barclaycard. Looks a bit like yours and again references to conditions which aren't anywhere to be seen so must be in a separate leaflet.

 

What they sent me is also on A3, blown up so much as to make the Financial and Related Particulars almost illegible. This would seem to me to imply that it has been blown from something much, much smaller, probably from a leatlet which from the T&Cs so they are not part of the original agreement at all.

 

DD

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Hi Patrick...

 

Morgan Stanley is being taken to task by me!

 

they have had their LBA for the charges at the moment, a few days left to run with that one before I can file N1. Then we move onto the "BIG" one :)

 

they aint getting away with it this time :)

 

 

Dave

hi dave that is not a 2002 agreement nor an application that is a document that has been made up,firstly the ppi insurance details are wrong or should i say they are not cfonsistent with what i was charged look at yours dave you will find it totally different from the written charges they have here ,

this is a totally ficticious document made up from three or four pages..

its second time i have looked at it but first time i just noticed the APPLICATION FORM now on closer inspection it looks nothing like 2002 argeements or even aplication...i think he needs to ask for a true statement of proof on this being the origional agreement ....

i am thinking this has come from barclays and not MS but if it has come from MS it certainley isnt from their microfiche records as you are aware of the quality of micros..... its a contrived document

patrickq1

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Just re-read this "agreement".............nowhere does it say T&C's overleaf. It does however make reference to terms and conditions supplied, and also a reference to term 16.....I cant see a term 16 on that agreement. So it looks like they are in a seperate "booklet"

 

If they are not part of the agreement then it is unenforceable..

 

weve broken the link........(maybe).....:)

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Morgan Stanley CCA received from Barclaycard morgan stanley
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