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Morgan Stanley CCA received from Barclaycard morgan stanley


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looks enforcable to me, but have posted up to see what peoples thoughts are on this. It was sent to me on two sheets of A3 stapled together so not sure if the scan is readable. One thing i did notice today is that points 6 and 7 appear to have been blanked out by them - probably just splitting hairs here but seems a bit weird (top right on first page) - any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

CCA.pdf

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I would consider rejecting that as enforceable as it is obviously an application form, how do you know whether you were signing an agreement for a standard or platinum card.

 

Prescribed terms look like they are not on the signature page.

 

Crap scan probrably shredded the original, its up to you but I would tell them to sling their hook.

 

Sections 6 and 7 probrably relate to PPI.

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A document can consist of MANY pages, and the Prescribed terms dont have to be on the signature page although they should be before the signature.

 

It looks like they have just tagged this on.....?? the fonts dont look quite the same and of course it is a different size.

 

you have to "break the link" between the two.

 

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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it actually states "your application may not be successful" ? so application it is

patrickq1

 

Not quite......

 

As much as we would like that to be the case....an application can double as an agreement if it complies with the regs......like this one "may" do.

 

the problem as I see it is the second page........we need to discredit it or take it out of the equation, or it may well make the agreement enforceable

 

rgds

 

dae

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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some interesting points made here. Although it was a long time ago, i think i applied for this one when collared at the airport many many years ago. i can't see any relationship between the first and second page though (although maybe it was on the reverse of the form? The sig is my hand writing, as is the date, but everything else on the form is not - its must have been done by the person when they 'got me' (sure it was Man airport actually)..

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The crux is can you present a legal argument in court to show the two are not linked and then use 127(3) as your defence..

 

I personally think its a goer as there is nothing to link the sheets.

 

On the fact that points 6 & 7 are missing the regs do state that the agreement must be ledgable...( see below)

 

I would write back and point this out and put the account in dispute until you get a reply

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI1983/1557) Section 2(1)

 

2. Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

Live Life-Debt Free

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Nice one B3 I didn't think of that:eek:

 

I still have a problem with it.......

 

its ok to say that P2 was not on the reverse......but can the creditor convince the judge.......hmmmmm quite possibly, creditors are nice upstanding members of the community who lend people money, and bend over backwards to help.............yeah right

 

the agreement makes reference to other terms and conditions elswhere, and as long as the main prescribed terms are within the agreement, then it is enforceable.

 

you need to be able to break the link

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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No problem...I have come to learn its all in the paperwork.

 

I had a simular thing with a MBNA Virgin card which was assigned to a DCA...they provided various bit and bobs that didnt match so I refused to pay....when the Northampton claim came through I defended on the basis that the agreement didn't contain the prescribed terms and they had an application and T&Cs

 

I managed to find an MBNA agreement that did contain all the terms and had this as part of my court bundle to show what the executed agreement should look like...when the DCA solicitor reveiwed the case and realised what my argument would be the case was withdrawn......its since been reasigned to Cabot and we enjoy the odd letter and conversation from time to time!

Live Life-Debt Free

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i take it then the main precribed terms on this form are in point 11 of the form. The second page does look like its not part of the form, but rather some of the T's and C's that were in force under Morgan Stanley at the time... Think this could be a tough one to argue... non-the-less i may be willing to give it ago (it took them long enough to come up with this anyway - almost 2 months in fact). I have Subject Access Request'd them as well to see what charges there may be on the account. Needless to say i haven't paid them last month and received a 12 default charge and a 12 over limit fee as a result of not paying them..

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Send them a letter stating that you dont belive that they have complied with the Act, in that the it is obvious that p2 is not part of the agreement

 

start it off with "I do not acknowledge any debt to your company", and mention that the agreement does not contain the prescribed terms.

 

state that the account is in dispute and they should not try to enforce it while an investigation is taking place as it would go against the OFT rules on fair debt collection

 

......there will be a template on here somwhere

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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at least dave i would get the chance of getting them to take me to court dave then let them explain the second PPI i had added to my card and at the same time they recorded the conversation with me as they stated at the time ,i argued then about the second PPI they said it was extra intrest DOH am i that thick,they also instructed me to cut my card up which i did that day it was never used again so they have now had since 2003 to take action instead i have had 7 DCAS ALL TRYING TO COLLECT AND AS YOU KNOW MY FAVOURITE IS HFO lol and they have just had it back in their possesion and as yet have not acted on it i wonder what they are scheming ive not even yet had a copy of any agreement ? and they have had some 12 CCAs asking for the agreement so iam happy with this situation and am enjoying all the correspondance they so kindly send me i have nice chats with them and they enjoy my pink floyd albulms great ere innit lol

patrickq1

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at least dave i would get the chance of getting them to take me to court dave then let them explain the second PPI i had added to my card and at the same time they recorded the conversation with me as they stated at the time ,i argued then about the second PPI they said it was extra intrest DOH am i that thick,they also instructed me to cut my card up which i did that day it was never used again so they have now had since 2003 to take action instead i have had 7 DCAS ALL TRYING TO COLLECT AND AS YOU KNOW MY FAVOURITE IS HFO lol and they have just had it back in their possesion and as yet have not acted on it i wonder what they are scheming ive not even yet had a copy of any agreement ? and they have had some 12 CCAs asking for the agreement so iam happy with this situation and am enjoying all the correspondance they so kindly send me i have nice chats with them and they enjoy my pink floyd albulms great ere innit lol

patrickq1

 

Hi Patrick...

 

Morgan Stanley is being taken to task by me!

 

they have had their LBA for the charges at the moment, a few days left to run with that one before I can file N1. Then we move onto the "BIG" one :)

 

they aint getting away with it this time :)

 

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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Hi Kstaplet,

 

I have just got my "agreement"!!!!!! from Barclaycard. Looks a bit like yours and again references to conditions which aren't anywhere to be seen so must be in a separate leaflet.

 

What they sent me is also on A3, blown up so much as to make the Financial and Related Particulars almost illegible. This would seem to me to imply that it has been blown from something much, much smaller, probably from a leatlet which from the T&Cs so they are not part of the original agreement at all.

 

DD

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Hi Patrick...

 

Morgan Stanley is being taken to task by me!

 

they have had their LBA for the charges at the moment, a few days left to run with that one before I can file N1. Then we move onto the "BIG" one :)

 

they aint getting away with it this time :)

 

 

Dave

hi dave that is not a 2002 agreement nor an application that is a document that has been made up,firstly the ppi insurance details are wrong or should i say they are not cfonsistent with what i was charged look at yours dave you will find it totally different from the written charges they have here ,

this is a totally ficticious document made up from three or four pages..

its second time i have looked at it but first time i just noticed the APPLICATION FORM now on closer inspection it looks nothing like 2002 argeements or even aplication...i think he needs to ask for a true statement of proof on this being the origional agreement ....

i am thinking this has come from barclays and not MS but if it has come from MS it certainley isnt from their microfiche records as you are aware of the quality of micros..... its a contrived document

patrickq1

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Just re-read this "agreement".............nowhere does it say T&C's overleaf. It does however make reference to terms and conditions supplied, and also a reference to term 16.....I cant see a term 16 on that agreement. So it looks like they are in a seperate "booklet"

 

If they are not part of the agreement then it is unenforceable..

 

weve broken the link........(maybe).....:)

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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