CABOT chasing ex littlewoods barclaycard debt

[silverfox1961]

I have a photobucket how to as well as the pm i sent you if you need it.

[cymruambyth]

Have you tried photobucket, once you work out what to do...it's really simple to use and you can blank out everything easily.

[mysticpols06]

Ok kinda hopin this works - if not will try again lol

 

woohoo! Fox i lurves ya!!!! Cheers hunny xx

Edited January 8, 2009 by mysticpols06

[mysticpols06]

[silverfox1961]

I was going to wind you up with a "you're stuffed" but I wouldn't do that to you :grin:

 

As far as I can tell with that pile of pants, it's UNenforcable. No prescribed terms.

Others will come along and probably tell you the same (I hope)

 

fox

[mysticpols06]

Cheers cym as well - ok - now i know how to do it will upload the other bits they sent as well yay! thanks xx

[mysticpols06]

[mysticpols06]

[mysticpols06]

[mysticpols06]

Ok thats it other than some copy statements & 'representations' of notice of assignments. didnt know if need to upload those for peeps to see as well? Thanks sooo much for patience with the photobucket thingy ha ha...Mpols x

[silverfox1961]

Can't quite see if the T's & C's relate to the "agreement" as there is nothing to link them together. What are the scale of charges on the t's & c's.

Is there any dates on the other papers. as you signed the agreement in 03, the T's & C's should be either 02 or 03. Any later than that then they do not comply.

 

By the way, you said last night that your scanner was having a hissy fit. Did you perhaps have a senior moment and forget you had a camera?

 

fox

[mysticpols06]

great minds an all that ha ha - read ur last pm x:D

[silverfox1961]

Just read it.

I'm off too. gotta go shopping:(

 

later mpols

 

fox

[mysticpols06]

Hi - Just bumping to see if any1 can pls have a look at the form i was sent in post #80 & give me some much appreciated opinions please? Many thanks as always, Mpols x

[Duffers Mum]

that looks like an application form to me and the T&C's posted later look like the standard ones that B/C sent me. I had a battle with B/C and then Mercers (who I ignored so they sent it back to B/C), they kept insisting it was an agreement, but it was an application form and the T&C's were of the wrong date, they did eventually send me another set of T&C's and give me a refund of interest and charges when they admitted they had sent the wrong things through, I still argued that they hadn't complied, this went on for months, eventually they accepted a F&F of about 40% of the outstanding balance. I presume yours is being dealt with by the lovely Cabot, who I have, sadly, also had dealings with! However they sent my Goldfish account back to Goldfish as nobody could provide a copy of anything other that statements.

 

I would argue and argue that what you've received is an application form and tell them to clear off.

 

Good luck

[mysticpols06]

Cheers Duf' It seems like an application form i agree but can't be sure as is 1st one anyone has sent me back if you know what i mean. Am not sure really what to send em next etc. Anyways, thanxs for your post hun. Take care, Mpolsx

[Duffers Mum]

You should just write and say that they have not complied with your request and the account is (or remains) in dispute until such time as they send you the proper paperwork, I must admit that Barclaycard continued to add interest and charges throughout my dispute with them however the F&F they accepted was still a lot lower than what the original balance was before I got into money difficulties, they were the only ones who accepted my F&F though, the rest farmed the accounts out to DCA's.

 

Stick to your guns, good luck

[mysticpols06]

Evening all Thanks Duffers for prompt comment earlier!

 

- Is there any1 else that can support Duffers advice above or offer any other opinions please on the form i received (post #80) & the other paperwork in posts #83,84 & 85 please?

 

Many thanks as always, Mpols x

Edited January 8, 2009 by mysticpols06

[mysticpols06]

Have just been reading through a few more threads & very handy sticky and have come to conclusion that this is not enforceable as it appears to defo be an application form not an actual agreement. It doesn't seem to include on the sheet that i signed and of the prescribed terms regarding running credit. Would be extremely grateful if any1 else with more savvy could offer their opinion pls & also as to what to do next. Is Duffers comment above the best option? Many thanks as always, Mpols x

[silverfox1961]

As I've yet to be put in this position, I can't know how you are feeling at this moment but you've done your research so be confident in what you believe.

If your first page doesn't link to any of the other pages, how can anyone say they are part of the same agreement

What are the scale of charges on the paperwork. If they are the newer charges (£12) then it's the wrong t's & c's. Even with my brilliant eyesight :-|

I couldn't read them clearly.

 

fox

[silverfox1961]

Could someone with a bit more experience have a look at the above "agreement" for Mpols please

 

fox

[mysticpols06]

Good afternoon everyone, Received another letter from cabot (has been a cabot day lol) stating;

"Repaying your acc: The cabot group has recently bought the acc you held with Barclaycard littlewoods and we've tried to contact you previously. It's now vital that you contact us urgently to discuss your acc. Choice of payments..blah blah...If we don't hear fom you - If you don't contact us to agree a suitable replayment plan we'll have to move your acc to the next stage of our collections process. Contact cabot...blah blah. Signed Peter Anderson."

 

I haven't yet sent anything in response to the duff paperwork i received (above & other thread - Soz, not sure how to merge 'em), as wasn't 100% sure which template to send & have been unwell the last few days so not had head on straight (Shouldn't be an excuse i know) and now they have sent me this telling me they have bought the acc that they already bought Oct 07, apparently & which is presumably now in dispute considering they have not actually sent through the proper paperwork in response to cca yet. Any advice please as to which response i should give or whether to ignore them a while until they start chasing for payment again? Many thanks as always, Mpolsx

[mysticpols06]

Evening all - Hope you all settled in comfy chair as have a bedtime story for you all to read Nah not really, is just my response just finished drafting to our friends at Cabot. Is one of the first that i have attempted to put together myself incl' quotes etc based on other threads templates etc seen online so would really really apreciate any and all comments/advice if there is anything wrongly worded, missed out or not necessary to include! Many many thanks for your time, Mpols x

[mysticpols06]

16th January 2009

 

CABOT FINANCIAL (EUROPE) LIMITED

PO BOX NO. 241

WEST MALLING

KENT

ME19 4NA

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company

ATTN: Steve Perring

Dear Sir,

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number

This letter is further to recent communications from yourselves dated xx/xx/2008, xx/xx/2009 and xx/xx/2009. I would like to bring to your attention certain points of relevance found within these letters, the contents of which are duly noted.

In your letter dated xx/xx/2008, which was your response to my OFFICIAL COMPLAINT OF ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE, (Para: 5) you state that you had “unfortunately not received documentation”. This contradicts (Para: 8) in which you also state that “As you (myself) signed a credit agreement which has been assigned to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, of which the terms we are entitled to enforce, Section 10 (1) of the DPA does not apply to your circumstances.” – I’m sure you can agree that it is misleading and presumptuous to include such a contradiction. Either you have the agreement that I have apparently signed giving you the right to process my data in which case, I require an explanation as to why has it not been sent to me within the timeframe allotted, or you do not have the documentation as previously stated by yourself in which case you have no right to continue, or begin processing my data as stated in the S10 notice in my previous correspondence. Your final paragraph states “I trust I have set out our position clearly”. Am I to assume that this is your final response to my complaint please?

The second letter that I wish to discuss (dated xx/xx/09) states in (Para: 2) “Cabot and the original lender have now completed the relevant obligations under the CCA.” This is in fact not true as what you have sent me is a pre-contractual application form, nigh on readily illegible and not containing the prescribed terms necessary to conform with the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’. I also have to point out that both “Representations of Notice of Assignments” which were included in the pack of relevant information were in my opinion misrepresentations due to a number of differences, including (but not limited to), incorrect dates & contact information.

The third letter I wish to discuss (dated xx/xx/09) is arguably the most amusing, forgive my impropriety, however, to receive another ‘template’ from yourselves stating that you had “recently bought the account”, fourteen months after receiving an almost identical version and three months after telling me that my “agreement has been terminated” – An agreement I must point out, which has yet to be seen, has prompted me to assume that this most recent note is simply because your systems are not sufficiently up to date with our current stage of communications.

 

I note that to date you have not complied satisfactorily, with my initial request for a copy of the credit agreement for the debt which you are pursuing.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(2) …….

(3)….….

(4) ………

(4A)……

(5) ………

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections [(4) to (5)] do not apply to a small agreement.

 

Clearly the agreement which was supplied to me does not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states: “If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;”

 

This is now a situation as described in s78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states:

 

”127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).”

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify s61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

 

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

 

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced. I will re-iterate that this is clearly not a true copy of the executed agreement between Barclaycard Littlewoods and me.

 

As this account is currently unenforceable and until such time as it is deemed enforceable either by way of Barclaycard Littlewoods fully complying with my original request, or by way of court order, I must insist that: All charges be removed from the account and further charges/interest cease to be added and all collection activities by your company are to stop with immediate effect.

I would also like to draw your attention to the OFT guidance on debt collection (issued July 2003 and updated December 2006) and in particular point 2.6 (h) which states; “Examples of unfair practice are as follows: h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demand for payment”.

Clearly this account is in dispute. I believe it is only right to inform you that copies of all correspondence, dating from the xx/xx received from your company will now be enclosed within an official complaint letter and forwarded to all regulatory authorities including (but not limited to), Trading standards, The OFT, The FOS and my local mp. I shall of course forward you any relevant details pertaining to the investigations which you may be privy to.

To conclude, I still require a copy of the executed agreement and all relevant documents required by the CCA 1974. Please note that if you are unable to provide this documentation in its correct form for any reason then I require you to confirm as such in writing please.

I expect that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter enclosing, if possible, appropriate and clear responses to the issues raised. All other correspondence will be duly recorded and forwarded with the aforementioned complaints.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

Yours Truly,

Mpols x

 

 

[silverfox1961]

WAY TO GO!!!!

 

 

 

16th January 2009

 

CABOT FINANCIAL (EUROPE) LIMITED

POBOX NO. 241

WEST MALLING

KENT

ME19 4NA

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company

ATTN: Steve Perring

Dear Sir,

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number

 

This letter is further to recent communications from yourselves dated xx/xx/2008, xx/xx/2009 and xx/xx/2009. I would like to bring to your attention certain points of relevance found within these letters, the contents of which are duly noted.

 

In your letter dated xx/xx/2008, which was your response to my OFFICIAL COMPLAINT OF ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE, (Para: 5) you state that you had “unfortunately not received documentation”. This contradicts (Para: 8) in which you also state that “As you (myself) signed a credit agreement which has been assigned to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, of which the terms we are entitled to enforce, Section 10 (1) of the Data Protection Act does not apply to your circumstances.” – I’m sure you can agree that it is misleading and presumptuous to include such a contradiction. Either you have the agreement that I have apparently signed giving you the right to process my data in which case, I require an explanation as to why has it not been sent to me within the timeframe allotted, or you do not have the documentation as previously stated by yourself in which case you have no right to continue, or begin processing my data as stated in the S10 notice in my previous correspondence. Your final paragraph states “I trust I have set out our position clearly”. Am I to assume that this is your final response to my complaint please? Please! IMHO get rid of that word

 

The second letter that I wish to discuss (dated xx/xx/09) states in (Para: 2) “Cabot and the original lender have now completed the relevant obligations under the CCA.” This is in fact not true as what you have sent me is a pre-contractual application form, nigh on readily illegible and not containing the prescribed terms necessary to conform with the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’. I also have to point out that both “Representations of Notice of Assignments” which were included in the pack of relevant information were in my opinion misrepresentations due to a number of differences, including (but not limited to), incorrect dates & contact information.

 

The third letter I wish to discuss (dated xx/xx/09) is arguably the most amusing, forgive my impropriety, however, to receive another ‘template’ from yourselves stating that you had “recently bought the account”, fourteen months after receiving an almost identical version and three months after telling me that my “agreement has been terminated” – An agreement I must point out, which has yet to be seen, has prompted me to assume that this most recent note is simply because your systems are not sufficiently up to date with our current stage of communications.

 

I note that to date you have not complied satisfactorily, with my initial request for a copy of the credit agreement for the debt which you are pursuing.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(2) …….

(3)….….

(4) ………

(4A)……

(5) ………

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections [(4) to (5)] do not apply to a small agreement.

 

Clearly the agreement which was supplied to me does not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states: “If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;”

 

This is now a situation as described in s78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states:

 

”127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).”

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify s61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

 

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

 

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced. I will re-iterate that this is clearly not a true copy of the executed agreement between Barclaycard Littlewoods and me.(myself?)

 

As this account is currently unenforceable and until such time as it is deemed enforceable either by way of Barclaycard Littlewoods fully complying with my original request, or by way of court order, I must insist that: All charges be removed from the account and further charges/interest cease to be added and all collection activities by your company are to stop with immediate effect.

 

I would also like to draw your attention to the OFT guidance on debt collection (issued July 2003 and updated December 2006) and in particular point 2.6 (h) which states; “Examples of unfair practice are as follows: h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demand for payment”.

 

Clearly this account is in dispute. I believe it is only right to inform you that copies of all correspondence, dating from the xx/xx received from your company will now be enclosed within an official complaint letter and forwarded to all regulatory authorities including (but not limited to), Trading standards, The OFT, The FOS and my local mp. I shall of course forward you any relevant details pertaining to the investigations which you may be privy to.

To conclude, I still require a copy of the executed agreement and all relevant documents required by the CCA 1974. Please note that if you are unable to provide this documentation in its correct form for any reason then I require you to confirm as such in writing please.

 

I expect that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter enclosing, if possible, appropriate and clear responses to the issues raised. All other correspondence will be duly recorded and forwarded with the aforementioned complaints.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

Yours Truly,

 

 

 

Mpols x

 

 

 

Would you be my official letter writer? pretty please:D:D