lowells again

[gill5blue]

Hi

I think lowells are writing to every body on their books, there are a lot of people who have written that they have been contacted by lowells, I also have been contacted by them, just send back letters repeating your previous requests etc

Gill5blue

[silverfox1961]

I would go through their internal complaints procedure first.

Thanks for your suggestion. I have just done a two and a bit page complaint letter which will go in the post (recorded delivery) tomorrow

I'm not going to post up the complaint as with all the dates I've put on the letter it would positively identify me.

 

fox

[silverfox1961]

Good morning all,

Sent off a nasty letter of complaint to our wonderful friends in leeds:-|

 

also sent today is a SAR request to Crap1 because they have said to lowlifes that they never received a letter from me in 2004 explaining my difficulties.

If that letter appears in the stuff I get back from Crap1, I shall be making lots of noise.

 

Regards to all

fox

[mysticpols06]

Morning Fox, Well at least they will get your replies nice & quickly in response to what they sent you - Gd luck hunny! Take care, Mpolsx

[silverfox1961]

Hi all,

Just thought I'd update you.

I sent a Subject Access Request to Cap1 and this letter to Lowells on the 10th of this month:

 

 

 

 

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT

 

 

Dear Sir/ Madam,

I wish to complain about the way I have been treated by your company.

 

 

Since 2007 I have been in correspondence with your company regarding an alleged debt to Capital One. In that time you have sent letters of an increasing threatening nature and because of that I entered into a payment arrangement with you without regarding whether you actually had the right to be collecting the alleged debt.

 

 

In a letter dated ** April 2007 you confirmed that the payment arrangement had been accepted for a period of 6 months but in a letter dated **th April 2007 you wrote asking me to call you. As an arrangement was in place I didn't call.

In a letter dated ** May 2007 you sent me a final notice even though an arrangement was in place. Again as an arrangement was in place I didn't call

In a letter dated ** May 2007 you sent me another final demand to which I obviously didn't reply as an arrangement was in place

In a letter ** June 2007 you again asked me to call your office. I again ignored this as an arrangement was in place.

In a letter dated **July 2007 from your legal team (hamptons legal) my account had been passed to them for action although an arrangement was in place so I ignored this too however when the next letter arrived threatening court action I decided enough was enough and rang only to be verbally abused down the phone. I was pressurised into giving my financial information over the phone and of course I couldn't remember exactly how much I had going out each month. I have also discovered quite recently that your staff should not have taken My Disability Living Allowance into account when working out what I could afford to pay as this is protected income but that didn't stop your staff member doing a calculation including my DLA. I have subsequently found that this is normal practice by your company and I find the attitude of your staff disgusting. How anybody can treat a human being with such disdain is beyond me and of course your staff's action are totally against your own guidelines which is probably why you prefer the phone to written communication.

After speaking to your staff member I felt pressurised into making a revised offer of £15 per month even though I couldn't afford it but you left me alone until your letter dated** January 2008 asking me to call you. After the way I was previously treated you must understand my reluctance to do so.

In a letter dated** March 2008 you sent another letter calling for me to phone you. Instead I sent you an email which you never responded to.

In a letter dated ** April 2008 you sent me yet another demand for me to phone you. I sent another email and after a short reply from Luke Fairlie I responded but of course you never replied to that email.

In a letter dated ** April 2008 you sent me yet another final demand and this time I rang and spoke to Elizabeth who told me you needed an income and expenditure form. I have subsequently found out you had no right to that although I did send one.

Obviously your staff do not talk to each other as I received a letter dated ** May 2008 with a final demand. I ignored that one too.

Finally I began to see some semblance of intelligence when I received another letter dated ** May 2008 stating that my account would be put on hold followed by another letter asking me to set up a standing order. A month later you sent me another standing order mandate which I filled in and sent back to you.

The bank account I hold does not support standing orders so I informed you in a letter dated **July 2008 and enclosed a postal order for £15 even though my account was still on hold as confirmed by a letter dated ** July 2008 but I continued to send postal orders in August, September and October each with a request that you contact me which you chose to ignore. I know you received the letters because the postal orders had been banked yet you deliberately chose to ignore a reasonable request.

Due to your poor standard of service I decided to seek legal help and found lots of information which I have been using since.

In a letter dated**October 2008 I sent you a request for a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement. You failed to supply me so I put the account into dispute but of course your colleagues in Red Debt Collection sent me a letter stating they had a total of 42 days to comply with my request. This is wrong as the extra 30 days allowed had been repealed but your staff don't seem to know that (or is that another deliberate ploy)

In a letter dated **December 2008 you wrote informing me that you were closing my account as an agreement could no longer be found followed by another letter dated ** December stating the exact same.

In a letter dated ** December 2008 I sent you a data protection act letter demanding that you stop using my data. You refused to do so.

In a letter dated **December I gave you an instruction to abide by my wishes but again you have refused to do so.

Your company has used deceptive tactics in your dealings with me when you never even knew if you had the right to be chasing me, the attitude of your staff is disgraceful and trying to get me to borrow from family or on other credit cards is against your own guidelines.

As it turns out, the “agreement” you have sent is an application form and not a valid agreement and as such is totally unenforceable in a court of law.

With that in mind, I expect you to uphold my complaint, issue a full apology and remove all data from your systems.

If your responses are less than satisfactory I will take my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, Trading Standards, The Office of Fair Trading, The Information Commissioner and my MP/MEP.

I am sure your responses will of course cover yourselves but by saying that your staff do not threaten people, you will be calling me a liar and that I will take exception to.

 

 

With that in mind, I look forward to your responses.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

I got a standard letter back from Lowells stating they will give me a reply within 4 weeks but I'll be taking bets on whether they admit to anything.

 

 

I'll keep updating as and when something comes in.

 

 

fox

 

[hillards]

Is anyone running a book on the answer Silverfox will get from the Leeds Losers?

 

My money is on a short one saying that they cannot respond to the complaint as the case was closed in December and they no longer hold records...

 

Of course, that's not the end of it - the courts would see things rather differently and a SAR could be quite useful, if it requested ALL data relating to the subject, including, but not exclusive to, complete transcripts of all telephone conversations and other communications between the two parties.

 

That alone could reveal some quite interesting information - IF they are able to provide that without excuses, like not having those records...

[silverfox1961]

The SAR was delivered to Cap1 on the 15th so I've a long wait to go. I'm hoping it will give me all the letters I wrote to CAp1 in the early days which Lowells deny exist.

[silverfox1961]

Morning all, an update for you.

 

Lowells actually replied within the 28 days.Shock horror .

 

While they apologise for upset/inconvenience caused, the letter goes on to say a few things which I don't agree with.

 

They say no payment arrangement was in place until May 08 and they deny sending a letter in April 07 agreeing to £5 a month for 6 months. If that's the case, what do I have in my possession They go on to say that if such a letter was sent, it was done so in error as they have nothing on their system.

 

Quote " As a company we are committed to providing our customers with the highest standards of service" Quote

 

The words "absolute bulwarks springs to mind" They even have ongoing training (probably to teach the "staff" how to harrass and bully peeps)

 

Quote "It would be correct to state should legal proceedings have been deemed to be prudent in this case there are certain things that could not have occurred such as attachment to earnings for instance. Having said that I would point out in our letter dated *th july 07 advised you of action that could be possibly taken by the Lowell group of companies and not would be" quote

 

Does that sound like a cop out?

 

Quote" Your comments concerning the principles of the Data Protection Act 1998 and the provision of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 are duly noted. However, I do believe that our letters dated * Decemeber 08, ** December 08 and * Jan 09 fully address and explain your concerns and there is really nothing further that I can add in this respect" Quote

 

So they still won't remove the adverse data from the CRA

 

Right, sorry it's such a long post but I now need to know what to do next?

Who can I complain to? is it just the FOS or can I go further?

 

I'm seriously thinking of sending Lowells a SAR as they are saying things in the letter that they could only confirm from phone recordings and I'd like to hear them.

They do say they sent me a letter last october but I never got it so if i send a SAR, they may just shoot themselves in the foot if there are bits missing.

 

Am I right in thinking that in the letters they send, they shouldn't be asking me to pay by credit card (more borrowing to pay off a debt)

 

How do I stand because they do have a copy of my application form which gives them permission to access the CRA's?

 

Thankyou in anticipation of all the helpful posts that will follow this one

 

fox

[fiftypence]

Sounds like they are being really stubborn over this fox! I think the fly in the ointment might be the application form they are (mistakenly?) relying on as giving them right to process your data??

 

It might be worth having a read of this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use-19.html#post1966548

 

(very long and technical thread unfortunately) but if you start mentioning pre action discovery they may get the impression you are serious about taking them to court and they may cave in.

 

Also it might be worth waiting to see what comes of the SAR to see if you have enough ammo to hang them and then start talking about getting them to disclose ALL of their documents 'prior to a court hearing'. Be nice to make them sweat a little wouldn't it?

[silverfox1961]

Thanks for your response Fiftypence.

That's the thing. With them having an application form which gives them limited functions with the CRA's, they think that gives them the right to process my data in it's entirity and I'm not sure if they're right or not.

 

I will SAR them (i know, a waste of a tenner) just to see what they have. I have six months before I decide whether to complain to the FOS or not.

 

I know there won't be much to come back but it would be worth it just to catch them out in a lie.

 

I won't be able to SAR them for a couple of weeks(lack of essential funds )

 

I've been following that thread link you gave me for a while and I shouldn't need to use it as lowells ancd cap1 have said there is no agreement so it would be pointless going down that route.

 

The default will come off my file next year anyway and I'm in no rush to get credit again so no hardship really.

 

fox

[fiftypence]

Don't you have a SAR with cap1 at the moment? I was thinking of waiting to see what comes back from that first? At least that's from the horses mouth in terms of documentation.

 

I also think the crux of that other thread (I admit I haven't been through all of it fully yet) is that you are asking them to provide ALL documentation they would rely on in court, a sort of SAR but a no cost to you Also they would have to come up with THE original CCA not a CCA that satisfies s77/78 as far as they are concerned. If pushed in court they couldn't rely on an application form to have a debt enforced it has to be the original CCA in the prescribed form. Hopefuly it wouldn't get to court but by asking in strong terms to provide whatever they are going to rely on in court it may be enough to scare them off and remove the defaults.

 

Like you say though if you don't need credit and the defaults are close to going away anyway then maybe just walk on by.

[silverfox1961]

Morning,

Lowells have stated that the original agreement is no longer available due to the length of time passed but then they sent the application form and as that has my sig on it, they say they have the right to process my data. They won't chase me for the debt so cpr 31.16 doesn't apply to me. I'm not confident enough to risk them re-starting the claim against me. If I started pushing, they might push back

 

I think I'll wait for the SAR from Cap1 to come back (only 17 days to go) and then I'll make a decision.

 

fox

[silverfox1961]

I have been doing a bit or reading, (knowledge is a dangerous thing )

 

I checked this thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/24013-defaults-proposed-method-removal.html#post187269

 

I haven't looked at it all but some things sprung to mind

 

My original account was with Cap1 and once my agreement was terminated, so did my permission for them to process my data.

If Lowells were collecting on behalf of Cap1 then the agreement would still be "live"

Lowells bought the debt from Cap1 therefore my permission for Cap1 to use my data lapsed.

 

In the original agreement, my permission was sought for Cap1 to pass my details on to CRA's and other THIRD parties.

Once Lowell took over, they became a FIRST party to an agreement but I never signed an agreement with Lowell.

 

If what i am assuming is correct, I have reasonable grounds for getting the defaults removed.

 

Any ideas anyone?

 

fox

[ODC]

I see where you are coming from Silverfox but I think the Law of Property Act would sink you where they buy the Rights and the Duties of the debt. No doubt someone will be along with a definative answer

[fiftypence]

Morning,

Lowells have stated that the original agreement is no longer available due to the length of time passed but then they sent the application form and as that has my sig on it, they say they have the right to process my data. They won't chase me for the debt so cpr 31.16 doesn't apply to me. I'm not confident enough to risk them re-starting the claim against me. If I started pushing, they might push back

 

I think I'll wait for the SAR from Cap1 to come back (only 17 days to go) and then I'll make a decision.

 

fox

 

My understanding was (and I could be completely wrong of course) that 31.16 was for discovery prior to ANY type of court action so although they may not be chasing you for the debt the boot is on the other foot now and you are effectively saying prove you can default me or I will take you to court for them to order their removal if you can't. And proof would be a properly executed CCA and not an application form?? A lot of these court threats from either side are usually bluff and counter bluff but if you come across strongly enough they may just relent to save them court time and costs if they know they are onto a loser.

 

In your other post about Cap1 having the right to process your data at one time I can see the logic in it but if the debt was properly assigned would that give Lowell the right to process?

 

Anyway, as you say still 17 days to go which gives you plenty of reading time on your favourite website

[silverfox1961]

Thanks for looking in ODC

 

I wish I was intelligent enough to understand the terminology of the law.

Once I get a few thousand more posts under my belt I may be as good as you

[beachcomber60]

Subscribing

 

Have my own battle with capone

 

Best wishes

[silverfox1961]

My understanding was (and I could be completely wrong of course) that 31.16 was for discovery prior to ANY type of court action so although they may not be chasing you for the debt the boot is on the other foot now and you are effectively saying prove you can default me or I will take you to court for them to order their removal if you can't. And proof would be a properly executed CCA and not an application form?? A lot of these court threats from either side are usually bluff and counter bluff but if you come across strongly enough they may just relent to save them court time and costs if they know they are onto a loser.I see where you are coming from. they say they have marked my file as satisfied so they can't chase me again so it would do no harm to me in calling their bluff

 

In your other post about Cap1 having the right to process your data at one time I can see the logic in it but if the debt was properly assigned would that give Lowell the right to process? Worth a thought though. I never got a notice of assignment or a defult notice so I'm hoping when Cap1 send my SAR these forms are missing

 

Anyway, as you say still 17 days to go which gives you plenty of reading time on your favourite website Oh how true :D

 

 

fox

[mysticpols06]

Worth a thought though. I never got a notice of assignment or a defult notice so I'm hoping when Cap1 send my SAR these forms are missing

 

That seems to be more of a trump card in that respect just by reading the last few posts hun, I think i would do as you said, wait the next couple of weeks and keep reading reading reading haha! Then make a decision. Lowells are usually soooooo predictable, based on my own experience and what others have said that it may be ok to try the whole 'calling bluff' step. I'm sorry that i don't understand it all well enough my self to help better - doh! My brain doesn't seem to process info like it should when i want anymore - is all too random

 

Anyways, good luck & hope u ok?

Mpols x

[silverfox1961]

Thanks for popping in mpols.

Well I've bitten the bullet and emailed the Information Commissioner and I'm posting a complaint to the FOS. Wonder if anything will come of it.

 

fox

[silverfox1961]

afternoon all,

Had a reply from my SAR today. Very interesting reading if a little confusing.

 

In a previous letter from Lowells they state that CAP1 didnt receive a letter from me giving them some information (post 169)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/164356-lowells-again-9.html#post1907253

 

I can't go into details of the letter because it's of a very personal nature but Lowells have shot themselves in the foot because in my SAR was that very letter I sent CAP1

 

As I've said in my Cabot thread, I had a breakdown and became homeless, sofa hopping for months and months so I wrote to CaP1 in October 03 telling them of my new address (addy1) and again in Feb04(Addy2) but I moved from addy 2 after a couple of weeks into another friends place but never informed them so what CAP1 did was to write to me at addy2 in March 04 which got returned to them so in May 04 they defaulted me at addy 1 which I obviously wasn't at as I'd told them in Feb04.

 

This means that Lowell lied to me as if they had asked Cap1 about that letter, Cap1 would have told them it existed so I'm thinking of writing back to Lowell calling them on this.

The question I have on this bit is, Would it be a "Letter Before Action" that's required even though I can't afford to take them to court?

 

The big drawback on this is that when I informed Cap1 one of my difficulties they asked me to cut up my card and send it back to them. I did so! Now, Lowell have stated that they have closed my file and won't be chasing me for the debt and marked my credit file as satisfied.

I'm quite worried that they will resurrect this debt if I decide to follow through with a LBA.

 

Any thoughts anyone. Attack or cut my losses as I have had some success with this one.

 

fox

Edited February 18, 2009 by silverfox1961
wrote Cabot instead of CAP1

[silverfox1961]

Having read this thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/184752-lowells-customers-put-them-2.html

 

I think I can stuff lowells.

 

In a previous post they stated that they sent me an NOA by second class post when legally, they should have sent it by recorded/registered delivery if they couldn't hand deliver it.

 

More for me to think about.

 

 

fox

[fiftypence]

Having read this thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/184752-lowells-customers-put-them-2.html

 

I think I can stuff lowells.

 

In a previous post they stated that they sent me an NOA by second class post when legally, they should have sent it by recorded/registered delivery if they couldn't hand deliver it.

 

More for me to think about.

 

 

fox

 

I think it has to be worth ruffling their feathers fox, they may be slightly weakened by recent events, might as well kick a man (DCA) when he's down

[mysticpols06]

Hey fox, interesting new thread by Toulose, eh! I think i'm def going to be busy firing off some more letters - Reckon maybe you should too - Can't see as it will hurt any - Just a case of getting brains round this new info eh hunny! Hope you been well. Take care, Mpols x

[silverfox1961]

Hi Mpols,

I'm good thanks. In fact, I'm scarily well. Don't want to tempt fate.

 

That thread is a goldmine for getting our own way. I'm going to digest the info and make a decision.

 

Hi Fiftypence

 

"QUOTE"I think it has to be worth ruffling their feathers fox, they may be slightly weakened by recent events, might as well kick a man (DCA) when he's down :grin:"QUOTE"

 

I'm a little worried about this.

Now that Lowlifes have closed my file, couldn't they just reopen it again if I started ruffling feathers. I would love to make them squirm.

I'm thinking of a LBA quoting the new info in toulouse's thread and also cpr 31.16 just to make them think that I'm going to take them to court even though I can't afford to.

I've already sent complaints to the FOS and the Information Commissioner so I'm in a real quandary as to whether this would work.

 

All I think I need is a little reassurance that this debt won't suddenly come up and bite me bearing in mind that they don't have a valid CCA but they might have my cut up credit card(if they haven't thrown it away)

 

Thanks both of you, hope you're both well.

 

fox