Nuthatch v Cabot/Goldfish Bank

[nuthatch]

I am starting this thread as I have many debts and I have been advised it's the best way to keep track of what I am doing with each of them.

I have got individual files with copies of all correspondence.

This debt has been part of a DMP for multiple debts administered by the CCCS for over 2 yrs.

 

I CCA'd Cabot in Aug 08 and to date I have not received anything back apart from regular letters to say they have not managed to obtain it from the original lender (morgan Stanley, then Goldfish)

 

Letter from Cabot at the beginning of September says my account is on hold.

 

I had a DMP review with CCCS in Aug and my monthly DMP payment went down because of my recent bereavement and I am off sick. I have been off for nearly 4 months and GP has just signed me off for another 2 months.

Following on from the DMP review, I had a letter from Cabot saying thanks for recent payment (presumably new offer from CCCS0 but they will continue to charge interest until a repayment plan has been agreed:confused:

Seems strange when they have written to say the account is on hold:mad:

 

I have other threads on the go for each of my debts and am plucking up courage to challenge them with the help of CAG.

 

I have finally plucked up the courage to ask CCCS to stop payments to one creditor and will deal with the rest as I can.

[miss muppet]

Question is Nuthatch, if Cabot have been assigned the account why are they saying they have to get the agreement from the OC, if they are collecting on this they should have absolute assignment, see Tomterm's sticky on the Debt Forum - Basic Introduction. Basically its the usual drivel we all get from Cabot, well done on plucking up the courage to stop paying.

I can see you growing in confidence since joining this site which with the problems you have had is just great, if you can ,put the payment you would have made to Cabot towards helping the site with the libel action8)

[Duffers Mum]

Nuthatch - sorry to learn of your recent bereavement

 

Cabot sent me the same letter (although I've never paid them a penny and not on a DMP) saying asked for copy agreement, account on hold etc. Then after about 6 months they sent a letter saying they had enclosed copy statements, letter of assignment etc and that they had now complied with my request and would expect payment. I rang them and said but you haven't sent a copy of my agreement to which they replied, Goldfish have said they haven't got one! I told them obviously without this document I wouldn't be paying them a penny, checked my credit file yesterday and Cabot have suddenly appeared saying i'm 6 payments late on my account, that rendered another telephone call to them again stating they have not provided agreement, they confirmed again that Goldfish have said they can't find it, to which I responded, well stop advising CRA;s I am behind with my payments when you can't prove I owe this alleged debt. Got the usual drivel that they will advise CRA;s and write and confirm no copy agreement, but I doubt they will do either.

 

Stick to your guns, don't pay them anything if they can't prove you owe the alleged debt, keep a copy of everything and send things recorded delivery/special delivery so you have a trail.

 

Seems they bought a load of duff accounts from Goldfish/MS that they can't get agreements on...shame although there are obviously people who aren't privy to the great advice on this site and would pay them, I shout about this site from the rooftops to anybody who will listen and tell them to pass the web address on to others in a similar position.

 

Good luck

[ScabHunter]

I rang them

 

DON'T

 

SH

[ScabHunter]

If you had the fact that "Goldfish have said they haven't got one" in writing, then that would be an admission that the alleged debt was unenforceable.

 

It would also mean that any tampering with your credit file would be unlawful.

 

If you haven't instigated complaints through their internal procedure, do that now. Also complain to Trading Standards (who are less use than a chocolate fireguard but do it anyway), and the Information Commissioner. If there is no agreement then they have no right to be processing your data at all.

 

Surely the more evidence we have that scabs like Crapot have blatantly disregarded the law, the better our chances will be if they decide to drag us through the courts on the back of a botched application form or some other non-enforceable rubbish.

 

SH

[nuthatch]

Hi scabhunter. Thank you for your replies.

The letter I ahve from Cabot just says the original lender is experiencing a delay locating it

I will get round to doing everything you have advised but I need to concentrate on one thing at a time at the moment.

[Duffers Mum]

I would normally say never ring DCA's, but have made the exception in Cabot's case because each time i've rang them I've tied them up in the knots and they've admitted both times that they haven't got an agreement (after telling me the call was recorded - they are so bright...not!) doubt i'll ring them again.

 

Nuthatch, that is a standard Cabot letter, no doubt a few months down the line they'll send you a pile of statements and a so called letter of assignment etc, all not worth the paper they are printed on without a proper copy of your CCA.

 

Sit tight, you will get loads of good advice from the knowledgeable people on this site, but beware that some of the DCA's do read the threads on here so try to not give too much away which might lead to them recognising who you are.

 

Good luck

[nuthatch]

Big letter from Cabot enclosing statements (I have not S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'d them yet) going back to 2002, a notice of assignment but it has none of my details on the document and has written on the top "Representation of letter sent on 11.3.08"

 

I do not seem to be able to find a copy of in my file.

 

Also a fax copy of terms and conditions which have a date printed on the bottom of 28/04/08.

 

The covering letter says that as C**** and the original lender have now completed their obligations, they are entitled to resume collection on the account.

 

There is no original credit agreement that I can see. There isn't even an application form.

[Duffers Mum]

Nuthatch thats exactly the same as I got from Cabot, its all irrelevant if they still haven't provided a copy of your credit agreement, I have now sent them the "remove the data from my credit file or I'll take further action letter" however they are still showing on my credit file, I will taking this further over the next couple of weeks, time permitting as my mum is very ill in hospital.

 

You can either just ignore what they have sent or you can write to them and say they still have not complied with your request and therefore you still won't be paying them. Good luck

[nuthatch]

Thanks Duffers Mum and everyone else. Sorry about your Mum.

 

Another letter from Cabot today saying I need to contact one of their helpful customer advisors to arrange how I am going to repay the debt.

Mmmmm....maybe not.

Followed by a bit saying that if I choose not to contact them my account will be passed onto the next stage of the collection process.

 

But, I do feel the need to respond in some way. I know I shouldn't but I really feel like doing something.

 

Could you tell me if there is a template letter somewhere saying they have not complied with my request or should I just cobble something together myself?

[Fred Bassett]

Hi nuthatch. Have you approached the CCCS yet about stopping payment? You may find that's a sticking point because they probably won't allow you to do it. You will most likely find that only way you will be able to stop paying them is by pulling out of the DMP and of course you may not wish to do that.

 

It's something you might wish to think carefully about.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[nuthatch]

Hi Fred. I had no bother getting the CCCS to stop paying another DCA (RobWay)who could not comply with my CCA request so I hope I won't have a problem with this one. I do actually have a named CCCS counsellor who knows my situation and has been very supportive.

My payment for October will have already been distributed but I was going to stop the November payment when I got some advice from CAG.

[Fred Bassett]

Hi Fred. I had no bother getting the CCCS to stop paying another DCA (RobWay)who could not comply with my CCA request so I hope I won't have a problem with this one. I do actually have a named CCCS counsellor who knows my situation and has been very supportive.

My payment for October will have already been distributed but I was going to stop the November payment when I got some advice from CAG.

 

Hi nuthach, that's interesting. I could not get them to stop payments to individual creditors and I've read a few threads on here where the situation is similar. In the end I pulled out of the DMP and so far it's worked out well for me, but that doesn't mean it will be the right thing to do for everyone. Perhaps your case is different because of your situation or perhaps it just depends on who in CCCS you get to deal with.

 

I'm not knocking them by the way, they're a very good organisation and an absolute godsend when you're deep in it, but they can be a bit inflexible after that.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[nuthatch]

I got this letter from another thread and altered it a bit. Does it look OK to send?

Obviously, my account details and address will go on it as well.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of ******, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On ****** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on *******.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

I acknowledge receipt of the statements of this account.

 

Furthermore

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[nuthatch]

I would be grateful if someone could cast an expert eye over my last post (#14) before my courage deserts me

[ScabHunter]

As Crapbot are being totally deceitful in trying to claim that they have fulfilled their obligations when they clearly have not, the letter is entirely accurate and appropriate.

 

SH

[nuthatch]

Thankyou scabhunter. THe letter is now printed off and ready to go RD tomorrow.

I feel really brave but it doesn't stop me shaking.

[Fred Bassett]

Thankyou scabhunter. THe letter is now printed off and ready to go RD tomorrow.

I feel really brave but it doesn't stop me shaking.

 

Don't worry about that nuthatch, we've all felt the same way at some time or another. I used to be terrified of the calls and letters but not any more, in fact I feel disappointed when I don't get any. Strange but true. When you know that they can't lay a finger on you it's a good feeling and that quickly turns into payback time.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[nuthatch]

Letter from Cabot.

Please call............urgently and speak to one of our helpful CSAs about your acount.

Our aim is to help customers get their accounts cleared-so do contact us soon! (Their exclamation mark)

 

Quite a friendly little letter but I don't think I'll give them a call.

I presume they are still trying to locate the CCA.

I haven't (yet) missed a DMP payment but am wondering if they have had a little discussion and want to offer a F&F?

[nuthatch]

Have just noticed that my "Amount Due" has increased by £400 since Oct.

As I CCA'd them in August...they can't do this can they?

Should I just wait for them to hang themselves or send another letter?

 

Looking at my "Account in Dispute" letter again, I note that the 14 days I gave them to get back to me with how they were going to resolve the complaint would expire tomorrow. But I don't think asking me to give them a ring (and not even a Freephone number) is what I was looking for.

 

I have emailed CCCS to tell them I will be withdrawing Cabot from my DMP as from the end of this month.

Edited November 14, 2008 by nuthatch

[ScabHunter]

they can't do this can they?

Not legally, no. But the law is an irrelevance to them.

 

The letter asking you to call them (call them what I wonder?) suggests that they have something to say that they don't want any written evidence of.

 

They will probably come back with a 50% F&F offer if they know they are stuffed. It is their standard procedure.

 

Of course even if you were prepared to pay it, it would be 50% of a grossly inflated balance, and not the real one. A bit like a shop doubling all of its prices and then offering 50% discounts.

 

Personally I would not correspond with them again after the "Account In Dispute" letter. They will not listen to anything you have to say anyway, and you might just poke them into a harder search for the agreement.

 

Complaints can always wait for later. Just make sure you keep copies of everything.

 

SH

[nuthatch]

Thanks for your welcome input again SH.

[nuthatch]

Had a reply from my email to CCCS and they seem to have changed their tune.

Before, they quite happily removed RobSway from my DMP creditors when I said no CCA received. Now I am told that in order for DMP to carry on..all creditors must be included:confused:

 

Wonder if they are being inundated following the Panorama programme?

 

CCCS also said they could not get the charges reversed that Crapbot have put on but can send a leaflet on how to complain to the FSA.

I pointed out to them that if these leeches didn't stop the charges....and I have no idea why they are adding them as I have not missed a DMP payment....I would be paying the debt for the rest of my life and beyond!

 

It's very tempting just to come out of the CCCS DMP but I still feel vulnerable after my husband's death.

[nuthatch]

Letter from Cabot...only 2 weeks late

 

Preamble acknowledges receipt of my letter.

 

Says:

 

" On reviewing your account, I can confirm that Cabot has previously forwarded copy statements, copy of notice of assignment (not actually with any of my details on) and T&Cs relating to your account (again, T&Cs are not relating to the date I took my card out)

However, you still waiting a copy of the credit agreement. Cabot has requested the documentation from Goldfish Bank and we are currently awaiting receipt of the same.

I note that you have sent us a Statutory Notice pursuant to Sec10 of the Data Protection Act 1998 requesting Cabot cease storing and processing your personal data, as you believe it is causing you damage or distress.

I must advise you that Cabot is legally entitled and obligated under the original credit agreement which you signed and entered into with the original lender, which has been sold to the Cabot Financial Group, and under the Schedule 2 paragraphs 1-4 of DPA 1998 to process and store your information.

 

As a result, I regret to inform you that we shall continue to process your personal data in order to perform the credit agreement, which you consented and agreed to. And the rest......"

At least I have it in writing that they have actually bought eh debt and are not acting as agents.

 

 

 

Should I just ignore this? I didn't actually go ahead and zero the balance on my CCCS DMP for the Cabot payments because I was a bit scared I have to admit after CCCS said they would finish the DMP if all creditors weren't on it.

I know I could do the DMP myself but I just feel I need the security of CCCS doing some of the work in the background.

[nuthatch]

Just opened another letter from the idiots at Cabot.

 

Repaying your account

We've tried to contact you on several occasions (as they don't have my telephone number I don't know how) and it's now vital that you contact Cabot to urgently discuss your account.

You currently owe £XXXXX and interest may be added to your account on a daily basis until a suitable repayment plan is agreed.

 

As I have not missed a payment via CCCS yet I can't imagine what they are talking about.

And, shouldn't they stop collection activity while the account is in dispute?

 

The account balance has increased by nearly £25 since Nov 12.