Littlewoods have produced a CCA but something is not right

[blind-as-a-bat]

After having to re-send Littlewoods a CCA request, thanks to RM losing the first one, they have produced this

 

 

 

 

Now im not sure how to take this one even if it is enforceable (which i cant work out if it is or not) as it only covers goods bought on 20 and 52 week terms, so doesnt cover any purchase taken over longer anyway, and i cant make my mind up whether it complies or not anyway.

 

The other problem is im not sure it is real, It is dated well after the alledged acount was suposadly opened, and i remember these being sent out under the guise, "sign this to get cash back" type letter, it even says the same on this copy. I now know this was a [problem] when they realised they hadnt a leg to stand on as before there was no agreemant.

 

The thing is we where sure we never sent it back, and my OH has never ever had any cashback from this account, which sort of backs that belief up.

 

Now its obviously been pulled from an online database held by EDM Group Ltd so is a copy of a scan they hold, but i would like to know who they are.

 

Any idea if i can fight this, and if so how?, is it even valid as it doesnt cover all the terms and conditions, as in purchases over longer period etc?

This one has got me stumped so any help would be appreiciated

[JonCris]

Check your 'signature' against all previous corre which you signed & if any of those match it precisely it's copy & paste

[surprise]

They produced the same document for me in 2007, however, they had scanned my signature in from a letter that had been sent to them. I did take it to TS who said that is was, even if genuine, improperly executed as they had not dated it. I took along signatues from the year that this document was dated, and they were nothing like the ones of 2007. Fortunately, I had had an hand operation which was not successful and my handwriting at the beginning of 2007 was all over the place.

 

TS said they couldn't doing anything about it as it was difficult to prove, however, after some strong letters to the Chief Executive and Chairman they said they wouldn't pursue the debt.

 

So do look very carefully at everything, even the date, is that your writing? mine wasn't!

Edited August 31, 2008 by surprise
typo

[JonCris]

surprise they can pursue now ........................2006 Fraud Act

[skegleg]

Hi blind as a bat

thats exactly the same one i got, the advice i got on here says its missing a few things, i am battling them over this good luck with yours, and yes totally agree this was signed under the guise of getting cashback, some 3 years after alleged account was opened.

Edited August 31, 2008 by skegleg

[blind-as-a-bat]

Thanks for the replys guys:) Things went a bit pearshape yesterday so sorry for disapearing

 

I saw your thread yesterday skegleg but the pics have gone so wasnt sure it was the same, so thanks for telling me it is, and judging by the response of PT in your thread that sort of answers some of my questions.

 

As for it not being real, the sig might be, but the initial letter of that sig is not right, its hard to explain why but saying its too plain is the only way i can, its as if something is missing:confused: so may be a cut and paste, but like you have all said its very hard to prove, if it was faint it may have been lost in the scanning and subsiquent copying so even i cant be anywhere near sure, as for the rest of the writing, that is not my OH,s, eg the number 2 in the date signed is curled, and she doesnt do that, never has, and i know she would have filled the date in if she had sent it back so know thats been added/altered for some reason. ? There are some more examples elswhere too along the same lines. Just not sure if that helps in anyway. as it all still comes down to proof, which only the origanel document would prove:(

 

Looks like another long fight starting then

 

 

PS skegleg, did you ever get any cashback after sending it, or anyone else for that matter that did the same? Just wondering as it would be intresting to know if it was a big [problem], as im thinking it was

Edited September 1, 2008 by blind-as-a-bat

[surprise]

Another thing that what was evidently wrong with mine was that the bottom bit had not been filled in like, date of birth or name, and I am very maticulous in filling out documentation because of the job that I do so I would never have sent back a form without all the relevant information on. As regards cash back, they show you this amount on your statement and you can either have it offset against goods or your can claim your cash back.

 

L

[skegleg]

Thanks for the replys guys:) Things went a bit pearshape yesterday so sorry for disapearing

 

I saw your thread yesterday skegleg but the pics have gone so wasnt sure it was the same, so thanks for telling me it is, and judging by the response of PT in your thread that sort of answers some of my questions.

 

As for it not being real, the sig might be, but the initial letter of that sig is not right, its hard to explain why but saying its too plain is the only way i can, its as if something is missing:confused: so may be a cut and paste, but like you have all said its very hard to prove, if it was faint it may have been lost in the scanning and subsiquent copying so even i cant be anywhere near sure, as for the rest of the writing, that is not my OH,s, eg the number 2 in the date signed is curled, and she doesnt do that, never has, and i know she would have filled the date in if she had sent it back so know thats been added/altered for some reason. ? There are some more examples elswhere too along the same lines. Just not sure if that helps in anyway. as it all still comes down to proof, which only the origanel document would prove:(

 

Looks like another long fight starting then

 

 

PS skegleg, did you ever get any cashback after sending it, or anyone else for that matter that did the same? Just wondering as it would be intresting to know if it was a big [problem], as im thinking it was

 

Hi blind as a bat,

yes mine is exactly the same as yours, was your name printed in as mine is, i received a letter off them saying they are sure in conforms to the cca regs and if i didnt think it did could i point out what i think is wrong with it, so i did thanks to pt's advice, they seem to be ignoring that letter but are sending demands for payment, as for cash back yes cashback was payed but it was payed before this was signed anyway, but they have admitted in a letter to me that they do not hold a cca for the opening of the account but this one over rides that one, i am now just waiting for a reply (if i ever get one ) about this alleged cca that is missing prescribed terms, i at one point was being harrassed by phone calls but i worte them a strong letter telling them to stop and up to now it has all gone quiet.

[blind-as-a-bat]

Another thing that what was evidently wrong with mine was that the bottom bit had not been filled in like, date of birth or name, and I am very maticulous in filling out documentation because of the job that I do so I would never have sent back a form without all the relevant information on. As regards cash back, they show you this amount on your statement and you can either have it offset against goods or your can claim your cash back.

 

L

OH has said there has never been any mention of cashback anywhere, but will dig out some old statemants and check to make sure, thanks for that:)

 

As for the date of birth and name, the first is hard to say due to the numbers involved, but the name is deffinatly not her writing either, which is why all this does not seem right as she is the same when filling things in

[skegleg]

sorry mate didnt explain myself very well. on mine on the left hand side they have printed my name and address and account number, then all i had to fill in was forename date of birth and sign it on the right,

[surprise]

I actually did a SAR with Littlewoods and I what I found amazing that in their records there is no mention of Agreements. So they do not know when they issue them or do they know if they have been received back. I mentioned this to TS and they said it means nothing, but you would have thought that would have been one of the main documents on their records. Also, apparently, that once agreements are scanned in by the company that keeps their files the original agreements are destroyed. I did say that this was completely irresponsible on their part as it leaves customers wide open to fraudulent documents being produced. She just nodded. As you can see it was no win with TS.

[skegleg]

I actually did a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) with Littlewoods and I what I found amazing that in their records there is no mention of Agreements. So they do not know when they issue them or do they know if they have been received back. I mentioned this to TS and they said it means nothing, but you would have thought that would have been one of the main documents on their records. Also, apparently, that once agreements are scanned in by the company that keeps their files the original agreements are destroyed. I did say that this was completely irresponsible on their part as it leaves customers wide open to fraudulent documents being produced. She just nodded. As you can see it was no win with TS.

 

goodness thats rediculous, i have been thinking af sending and sar off to them, but i dont know whether to wait until and if they take me to court then i can save myself a tenner

[blind-as-a-bat]

Hi blind as a bat,

yes mine is exactly the same as yours, was your name printed in as mine is, i received a letter off them saying they are sure in conforms to the cca regs and if i didnt think it did could i point out what i think is wrong with it, so i did thanks to pt's advice, they seem to be ignoring that letter but are sending demands for payment, as for cash back yes cashback was payed but it was payed before this was signed anyway, but they have admitted in a letter to me that they do not hold a cca for the opening of the account but this one over rides that one, i am now just waiting for a reply (if i ever get one ) about this alleged cca that is missing prescribed terms, i at one point was being harrassed by phone calls but i worte them a strong letter telling them to stop and up to now it has all gone quiet.

 

Yes it was printed, but OH may have done it that way, but its not her writing, im sure of that, as for them saying to you "they are sure in conforms to the cca regs and if i didnt think it did could i point out what i think is wrong with it" says a lot, the words fishing comes to mind, they know its not, but just want to know if you know, intresting, thanks for that:)

 

There is so much that is not there it cant be complient to cover ALL transactions nor be a complete list of T&C,s, only some, so i can't see how it could be enforceable

[skegleg]

Yes it was printed, but OH may have done it that way, but its not her writing, im sure of that, as for them saying to you "they are sure in conforms to the cca regs and if i didnt think it did could i point out what i think is wrong with it" says a lot, the words fishing comes to mind, they know its not, but just want to know if you know, intresting, thanks for that:)

 

There is so much that is not there it cant be complient to cover ALL transactions nor be a complete list of T&C,s, only some, so i can't see how it could be enforceable

 

yes totally agree there, they were definately fishing to see if i know what is wrong with it, sent letter giving them 7 days to reply to it in july and have not heard anything about it yet, so i am now chillin until they start bothering me again

[blind-as-a-bat]

Thanks everyone, thats just about confirmed everything i was feeling/thinking when i posted, and gives me the answers on how i need to fight it:)

 

skegleg, did you base your reply on PT,s post in your thread, or did he PM you something else?

[skegleg]

Thanks everyone, thats just about confirmed everything i was feeling/thinking when i posted, and gives me the answers on how i need to fight it:)

 

skegleg, did you base your reply on PT,s post in your thread, or did he PM you something else?

 

Hi

yes at first i just wrote and said it was missing some prescribed terms, they said it compled, then i just pointed out the flaws in their alleged cca told them i was amazed that i needed to point out such thing to such a big organisation and gave them 7 days to reply, they havent so they seem to be ignoring it, if you have the same reply as me and they say it comples and need letter i sent just give me a shout and i will pm you with it if you like,

[blind-as-a-bat]

It would be good to compare it with what i have in mind so thank you skegleg i will take you up on that kind offer.

 

On top of what i think you will have sent, if we are on the same wavelength, Under the CPR rules it states an origanel copy must be produced if they persue it through court, and as one of surprise,s threads states they destroy them, considering there is enough question marks on what they have sent to bring its authenticaty into question, only the origanel will prove it beyond doubt, this could be fun

[blind-as-a-bat]

Well its taken some time but a bit of movement, if only going round in circles

 

Sent littlewoods notice the agreemant was missing proscribed terms etc etc etc no responce whatsoever, now NDR has showed up, and another copy of the above supposed agreemant from littlewoods (well shop direct sent it) so it looks like they missed the points (read egnored) made in my last letter.

 

NDR have been sent the boggoff acount in dispute, but surprise surprise no record of it being delivered, let alone signed for.

 

But apparently NDR are going to put a "gone away" notice on my OH,s CRF as she is not responded to there letters:confused: Funny that:rolleyes:

 

They can threaten what they like, water of a ducks back, but i need a paper trail just in case they pass it on for further action

 

So the problem i have now is getting NDR to recieve a letter that is sent to them, i have read that this is the norm for them and very fiew recorded del letters get through, or at least are recorded as being dilivered.

 

Is there another address for LDR becides the PO Box that i would stand a chance of getting a letter signed for?

[darryl1960]

If it helps ,I always have been led to believe that NDR are littlewoods in house Debt collection Agency.

[mysticpols06]

Hi blind-as-a-bat, I sent my CCA request to littlewoods/NDR last week on the 7th & no reply as yet, so am going to check tracked receipt on p/office site in mo. As far as i can gather, darryl may be right because any corr i have been getting statements etc from NDR & Letters from littlewoods at same time & one in particular few wks back re, default sums notice from NDR but with littlewoods addy on! Anyways, i sent CCA to l'woods add (aintree innovation centre etc) - if no response by time up then will pursue it & poss send one NDR addy too. gd luck hun!

[Dorabell]

If it helps ,I always have been led to believe that NDR are littlewoods in house Debt collection Agency.

 

 

Yes they are in house DCA for littlewoods:)

[skegleg]

Well its taken some time but a bit of movement, if only going round in circles

 

Sent littlewoods notice the agreemant was missing proscribed terms etc etc etc no responce whatsoever, now NDR has showed up, and another copy of the above supposed agreemant from littlewoods (well shop direct sent it) so it looks like they missed the points (read egnored) made in my last letter.

 

NDR have been sent the boggoff acount in dispute, but surprise surprise no record of it being delivered, let alone signed for.

 

But apparently NDR are going to put a "gone away" notice on my OH,s CRF as she is not responded to there letters:confused: Funny that:rolleyes:

 

They can threaten what they like, water of a ducks back, but i need a paper trail just in case they pass it on for further action

 

So the problem i have now is getting NDR to recieve a letter that is sent to them, i have read that this is the norm for them and very fiew recorded del letters get through, or at least are recorded as being dilivered.

 

Is there another address for LDR becides the PO Box that i would stand a chance of getting a letter signed for?

 

hiya again blind as a bat,

as you might remember i got sent the same cca as you, and yes i am going through the exact same trouble with them as you,

they are totally ignoring ALL my letter saying about missing prescribed terms, and they always refer to letters they sent me BEFORE i pointed out the missing prescribed terms, i know they got the letters i sent them because they were all signed for, i have signatures to prove it, but they will not acknowledge them,

i have had a letter saying as far as they are concerned there is no dispute:rolleyes: so like you i am going around in circles with these idiots,

[surprise]

Not all my letters got signed for. You can actually send normal post and get proof of posting, free of charge, this would acceptable by a Judge if it ever went to Court. The only way I discovered that NDR got my CCA request was when they credited the £1.00 to the account, bless them.

[blind-as-a-bat]

OK sent another letter to NDR Monday Got confimation of delivery today, thats good enough for me:D

 

 

Got something else through the post that has got me thinking though, it appears to be some sort of statement of account, but whether it is in responce to my CCA request or the new Regs on sending statements that came out in october im not sure.

 

I will post whats been sent shortly, But firstly looking at the agreemant again, Is it an agreement for fixed term credit under section 77 of the act or an agreemant for Running or revolving credit under sec 78 of the act ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would be intrested to know, as i dont think Littlewoods/NDR even Know:eek:

Edited December 12, 2008 by blind-as-a-bat

[blind-as-a-bat]

Ok first we have what appears to be a default notice........I think

 

It certainly doesnt comply if it is, in any way at all

 

Does anyone else think this is supposed to be a default notice?