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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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CCA REQUEST TO MBNA my journey by Maz


angel_1
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Hope you can folow these sums???

 

sparkie

 

If a default charge is added to the balance of say £25

The first month interest compounded would be £2025 plus 2% ===£40.50... ..==£2065.50 next month

£2065.50 plus 2% ==£41.31 ====£2106.81 the Act says that simple interest must be applied to the default sum of £25.

The creditor would have to show on your statement this calculation

Balance £2025 contract interest on £2000.………..£40.00 balance £2040

£25 Default charge interest at 2% ===0.50p Balance owing £2065.50.……. Next month it would have to show

Interest 2% 0n balance of £2040 ==£40.80 £2080.40 plus £25.50 ===£ 2105.50 plus 0.50 = £2106.00

 

Instead of £2106.81 people might say its only 81p extra ...not worth arguing about ….but this is only 1 month on one agreement but remember this increases every month and soon you would be paying £2 to £ 3 a month more than you should be.

Consider how much money a credit card bank makes on the thousands who are late…..10 thousand late payers in I month they have made £8000 more than they are legally entitled to

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hiya Sparkie

 

i can see what you are now saying, my head hurts though, but of course its like when you say save, you earn more interest on the compounded part, so interest on interest,

 

is my reasoning becoming a bit clearer, for myself, all i know is that if they have done this, of course the debt increases as months go, as interest is put on interest,

 

so something i must get clearer on, wont havemy pc for the next couple of days but will be back later in the week

 

many thanks def food for thought, i love learning all about this stuff,

 

thanks, done you a tickle...ciao for now maz

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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hiya Sparkie

 

i can see what you are now saying, my head hurts though, but of course its like when you say save, you earn more interest on the compounded part, so interest on interest,

 

is my reasoning becoming a bit clearer, for myself, all i know is that if they have done this, of course the debt increases as months go, as interest is put on interest,

 

so something i must get clearer on, wont havemy pc for the next couple of days but will be back later in the week

 

many thanks def food for thought, i love learning all about this stuff,

 

thanks, done you a tickle...ciao for now maz

 

 

Cheers mate ....it is exactly what you say its interest upon interest ....but they can't apply it to default sums and that includes stuff they add on court claims as further default charges etc, and charge compiud interes on those... that now breaches the New CCA 2006 and would be considered unlawful

 

sparkie

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yeah it now kinda makes sense. May need to read it a few more times for it to make full sense.

 

Have a tickle for it tho.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hiya Maz,

 

just to give you a heads up (since we seem to be on similar tracks), I got a threatening letter from Optima solicitors today, threatening a charging order and order of sale on my home - well merry christmas to them too:rolleyes:

 

Kind regards,

Underdog

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do they place charging orders on council propertys cause i want cap 1 to threten me with that.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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SPLAT - just landed!

 

Hi GM, I think they would have a job to get the council to cough up for you. Surely a charging order is taken on the property owned by the 'debtor' and I expect the 1st charge holder (mortgage co) would have to agree to it i.e. there would need to be some equity in da hose.

Comments welcome from any one who's had one of these imposed

 

H & H

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well iam in a council property and as a result of some debts that are unenforcable i am being told i will have a charge placed on the property i live in when i laughed and said good luck i was told this is no laughing matter you need to pay ur debts i advise it was a laughimg matter and continued laughing adviseing them that despite a cca request the OC has admitted no cca and as result they cant do anything which is trying to enforce a debt but in reality any type of court action is them enforcing the debt. I then hung up. I failed to tell them they cant place a charg on a house that does not belong to me.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Gr8 GM

 

Good to keep an ace up ur sleeve!! ;)

 

The shock :eek: of sudden loss may make em think twice b4 takeing the next person to the cleaners.

 

like to see their faces when you tell them, can u record the conversation?

 

some answering machines have a call record.

 

Have a good day

 

H & H

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No cant record as i have only got a mobile but i am looking into recording equipment so i may be able to soon.

 

I will keep everyone updated as and when.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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No cant record as i have only got a mobile but i am looking into recording equipment so i may be able to soon.

 

I will keep everyone updated as and when.

 

You must have the software for the mobile phone, can't you download all your messages to your pc.:)

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yep i can but i cant download phone calls as i cant find the button to record whilest in a call.

 

i am sorting the recording problem out tho.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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  • 1 month later...

hiya all just a bit of update

 

i got a letter stating that they will sell my debt of one of my lower mbna cards if i dont contact them by the end of jan as they have tried to assist me in the past 6 months - what with the shoddy copies of the cca and then stopping me with my complaint and told me to go to fos, who i think wont do anything now ive read loads of threads

 

so my dilemma is now ask to view the copy of the cca agreement myself so i can sure they have a fully executed agreement,

 

or let them default me and sell the account on

 

or how if anything should i do right now ?

 

many thanks i feel time has come to take the bull by the horns on this one now

 

 

catch up laters angel x

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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hiya all just a bit of update

 

i got a letter stating that they will sell my debt of one of my lower mbna cards if i dont contact them by the end of jan as they have tried to assist me in the past 6 months - what with the shoddy copies of the cca and then stopping me with my complaint and told me to go to fos, who i think wont do anything now ive read loads of threads

 

so my dilemma is now ask to view the copy of the cca agreement myself so i can sure they have a fully executed agreement,

 

or let them default me and sell the account on

 

or how if anything should i do right now ?

 

many thanks i feel time has come to take the bull by the horns on this one now

 

 

catch up laters angel x

Hi Angel!

Yes it is not always easy to know what to do for the best.I am sure that they will not bee keen on you asking to see your original copy and cant imagine they will be setting up an appointment!:Dsome people trying that CPR31.16 thing but im a bit worried that once thats started you are sort of pushed into takeing court action thing against them if they dont comply. Though maybe a good idea to do and one i would certainly do if they started takeing any legal action against me'At moment i am doing a less formal thing with my crap one account and just sent an ordinary letter just simply requesting that i be allowed to view their original at their head office but not doing that legal cpr31,16 thing just making a simple request,It will be interesting to see what crap one response will be! Perhaps you could write a similar letter to MBNA! :grin:if it only winds them up and worries them its worth it and if they have got something to show you at least you know where you stand. But somehow i dont think a invitation will be winging its way to your address!:grin:but then it will be still worth it just to worry them:grin:and if they ever take things further at least you will show judge you tried to resolve matter without using court time by asking them to look at original CCA! but MBNA would not coperate!:grin:and then if it got to them seriously threatening to take you to court you would not have anything to loose by getting advice on here on how to hit them with a CPR13.16 request as well!:grin:to make them legally show you they have a properly executed CCA or to admit they have not!Perhaps we could make it an official outing for the mbna fan club! when MBNA set your appointment up!and we all come with you and have a little party outside their offices!:grin: luv from sunflower:)xxxx

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi, Subbing to this, as I'd be also interested to see the replies to your above questions angel_1.

 

Although I have received a cca from MBNA, its illegible (so small print), and terms and conditions on separate sheet, and its an application form. I'm also wondering wether to reply or just wait for them to sell it on.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/178139-taz11-mbna-enforceable.html

 

 

regards

 

Taz11

Edited by Taz11

Taz11 v NatWest/Triton: Unenforceable :D

Taz11 v BOS: Unenforceable :D

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Perhaps we could make it an official outing for the mbna fan club! when MBNA set your appointment up!and we all come with you and have a little party outside their offices!:grin:

 

Don't forget my invite :D

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Yes i will have to hurry up and get a request to view my MBNA alleged CCA as well !Perhaps i can arrange it on same day as Angels and we can view them together,:D

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Don't forget my invite :D

Hi AA99 and Undedog!

We will not forget your invites!LOL,I am looking forward to a day out in Chester!:Di will supply the wine.I am a bit dissapointed with Crap one as they dont seem to take up peoples requests for invites to see their alleged agreements they seem so confident they have!:Dso looks like i am going to be done out of a day out to view my Crap One one but i am sure MBNA will be more obliging!:D

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Still waiting for MBNA to send my invite after I asked them if I could view my agreements at their office ! :D

Hi Cosalt!

Oh no! Dont say MBNA are going to do us out of an excuse to have a get a Cag together outside their offices as well as Crap One! I am dissapointed!:rolleyes:

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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  • 1 month later...

well a bit of a update

 

received a dn from them, i will try and post up tomorrow now

 

as id sent them a letter again only in writing and complained about calls

 

they have now sold my debt on, and this is the end of the matter as far as they are concerned and to go to fos

 

well i think that must be my priorty tomorrow

 

however, i hope anyone else has any other ideas, would appreciate it [b]The Front copy of cca is in post 94[/b]

 

off to bed now but be back bright and early in the morning

 

good nite all laters angel x

Edited by angel_1

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Hi AA99 and Undedog!

We will not forget your invites!LOL,I am looking forward to a day out in Chester!:Di will supply the wine.I am a bit dissapointed with Crap one as they dont seem to take up peoples requests for invites to see their alleged agreements they seem so confident they have!:Dso looks like i am going to be done out of a day out to view my Crap One one but i am sure MBNA will be more obliging!:D

 

That's very generous of you to supply the wine - you do realise I drink mine by the half gallon?;):lol: I suddenly sense my invitation being forgotten afterall, lol:D

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red wine or whiskey will be fine for me but i am fussy with both so will bring my own

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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