CCA REQUEST TO MBNA my journey by Maz

[angel_1]

Hello all

 

im doing this thread to record my actions to get my cca from mbna

 

let the battle commence! my humour - nothing else

 

been advised to start a thread on each of my different creditors will title it the same as above but with the different creditor name so hope it helps others.

 

had already posted on other threads but will now copy here below

 

be right back maz

Edited December 12, 2008 by angel_1

[angel_1]

Maroondevo52 - wrote this below so i thought was a most brilliant article explaining exactly what the need and the use of the cca was and the legal implications surrounding it for having it from the creditor and not having it from them.

 

So will put this info on all my cca threads just so its a start to the understanding of the cca request.

 

Did click your scales Scott - thanks maz

*******************************************************

Hi.

 

A debt becomes unenforceable under the CCA if a creditor does not supply a true copy of the signed credit agreement within 12 working days of it being requested.

The debt remains unenforceable for as long as the creditor fails to produce the signed credit agreement – this means if they produce the agreement some months down the line, they are quite within their rights to enforce it. They do not need to take any further action to enforce the debt. A debtor cannot take any action against the creditor for failing to produce the signed credit agreement within the prescribed time, because that is up to the agencies that the offence has been reported to. Any sanctions that may be imposed are at the discretion of these agencies, and it is not a matter that the debtor can take to the civil court.

 

If a CCJ has already been entered against a debt, then there is no point in requesting the agreement under the CCA, if your intention is to argue that the debt is unenforceable, since the debt has already been enforced. You can however request a true copy of the original signed credit agreement if you wish to check original terms and conditions etc. If they do not supply it then your only recourse is to report them to the aforementioned agencies. It would be very difficult to prove that they didn’t have the agreement at the time judgment was entered.

 

It is imperative that you continue to pay any debt under the terms of a CCJ.

 

Issuing a court claim for non-compliance of a CCA request in all probability achieves nothing to benefit to the debtor, as a court claim is likely to spur a detailed search which could well end up with them producing a perfectly acceptable original signed agreement in court – which would result in the debtor losing the case, and being made liable for the creditor’s costs.

 

If after requesting a true copy of a signed credit agreement the creditor fails to produce it, it does not mean that the debt does not exist, because at the end of the day the debtor spent the money and therefore they owe it and need to pay it back The debtor may now however be in a good position to make a full and final offer to clear the debt.

 

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[angel_1]

Re: offering full and final and cca

i have to say a good question something ive been mulling over for a few weeks and now reading the answer that maroondevo52 gave above is excellent.

 

the penny has now dropped for me, as im doing my own dmp, CL Finance been given my debenhams debt and im paying them

 

all my other creditors have accepted my payment plan some with interest some without for 6 to 12 months.

 

I am now planning to

 

1.obtain the cca on all (they are all credit cards and store cards)

2. have the majority of the statements if not after checking will S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) each appropiate company

3. requst refund of charges if i get back can go against the debt

 

if i dont get the cca back will need to report them to the authorities

 

if i do get the cca then i know they can enforce the debt more seriously if i default on the monthly agreed payment

 

However, i guess then at this point i can offer each of the creditors a full and final settlement, each with a pro rata amount so each company get a fair amount of the share of the money i hope to have from a relative to clear all the debts. Sure ive seen a letter offering this and also to always await a written confirmation that if they accept the offer they also write on my credit files as Satisfied.

 

So i hope ive now understood this more clearly.

 

The only thing i can now think of going wrong what happens if say a few of the creditors dont accept the full and final settlement figure i give them and say a few do?

Should i just pay the ones that do only ? Then do i carry on with the ones that dont again the query is of those remaining if they have enforceable agreements again to ensure i dont default otherwise may be taken to court .

 

you wonderful people who have the knowledge thank you - to people like us who are still learning you make it all sound so simple and give us confidence

 

any help offered i will alway gladly accept,

 

Ciao for now MAZ

[angel_1]

hello all

 

looking back at my paperwork now that it is in order, in april/may i had tremendous problems with mbna as they were just ignoring me and getting rma and nco chasing me for payment whilst id already sent mbna my initial letter to accept my pro rata payments, so i found my notes id sent them a harrasment letter, also only to contact me via letter no more phonecalls, managed to get them to delete my work number too. However, also now recall that i did send them a request or it may have been to rma and nco for my credit agreement,

 

Unfortunately, my pc crashed lost all my files and i had stored each letter i have ever done in each folder on the pc, now all gone. ( i know, now have all my letters stored also on a computer stick - lol)

 

So i chased up mbna last week, as now im on a plan for 12 months no interest or charges and to update them if my circumstances improve, hoping to go back to work in the next month you see.

 

i requested again the copies of my cca as i had already spoken to 2 different people about them in july when they finally set up my payment plans. She told me last week that copies had already been sent to me twice, never had them.

 

Today in the post got copies of MY RECENT TERMS AND CONDITIONS, as per my request!!!

 

NO NO NO this is a nightmare now.

 

so playing silly beggars i think. Well, as i have now searched my files and have found copies of my original letters requesting copy of the credit agreement.

 

1 letter to global vantedge and 1 letter to nco for 2 of the mbna cards.

 

My question is now should i just write to mbna advising them of my original requests as i sent the 1.00 postal order to the appropiate companies i wrote to ie global and nco. Informing them that i require the correct legal paperwork as requested within 7 days, or confirmation that they no longer hold the original copy of the credit agreement.

 

I know i can report them but my aim like i said is to see about full and final settlement figures -

 

what do you all think my next step is - thanks maz

[Hopeful1]

Hello again

 

I'm guessing that it would be helpful if you could get MBNA to confirm in writing that they do not have the CA. So perhaps write and remind them of your timescales and the fact they have not complied with your legal request. Give them the option of sending the CA or confirming with you that do not hold one.

 

They would then know that you know what you're doing and may be more flexible then with their full and final settlement offer.

 

Do you have charges on any of these MBNA accounts?

[angel_1]

hiya Hopeful1

 

come to sort out the rest of the creditors.

 

in reply to your post 5 - yes i do have charges on the mbna accounts, have collected all the statements and im guessing at the moment nearly 200.00 pounds on the main mbna account here. Should i request these in a seperate letter after ive sent the cca letter first?

 

Also, i will write a letter but now my dilema is because i wrote to global vantedge and nco europe directly who were acting on mbna behalf, and who had the 1.00 postal order payments, do i just send a reminder letter in my own words that i do require the copy of the original agreement and will allow them a further 7 days to provide me with this. Of course both my original letters to both nco europe and vantedge were sent in april and may 08. They have had ample time to obtain the agreements for me and who were acting on behalf of mbna. Mbna have had enough time also since my previous telephone conversation of last week and also beginning of july 08 to provide the information.

 

I think the letters i used were from this forum the initial request and then the reminder for request.

 

Still no cca has arrived.

 

is there another letter now to send after they have gone over the 12 plus the calandar month - these deadlines have expired.

 

I have agreed a plan of payments and they have stopped interest and charges, i do wish for the moment to continue with a goodwill gesture payments, however i wish to insist that they either provide the copy of the original cca and all documents or confirm they do not hold such documents any longer.

 

I then will want to offer a full and final settlement, of course with a much lower offer figure just to get them off my list if they actually confirm they dont hold the original copies.

 

sorry to have rambled, i feel i need to do something tonight to get me moving on this one first then it will help me with the others i need to tackle.

 

many thanks MAZ

[Hopeful1]

Hi Maz

 

There's a non compliance letter here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/133960-1st-credit-failure-produce-2.html#post1582886

 

You will obviously need to read through it and alter dates etc

 

It may also be of interest for you to read this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/147392-cca-dcas-unfair-commercial.html

 

It details updated practice with regards to non-compliance. It isn't restrospective though so check to see if your dates fit in.

 

Something i was thinking when you make your f & f - if they have entered a default on your file you should include that as part of the negotiations.

 

[Hopeful1]

 

in reply to your post 5 - yes i do have charges on the mbna accounts, have collected all the statements and im guessing at the moment nearly 200.00 pounds on the main mbna account here. Should i request these in a seperate letter after ive sent the cca letter first?

 

 

I wouldn't worry about reclaiming as you are going to make low offer on the f & f due to non compliance with your CA

 

I am also assuming that you are now liasing with MBNA direct? Correct me if i'm wrong.

[angel_1]

Thank you so much Hopeful1

 

i am doing self managed dmp so yes im liasing directly with mbna,

 

i was thinking like you said about the cca first if they dont have the cca then a f & f would be low.

 

ive seen the letter on the above link - thank you, although ive paid last months payments and im not due to pay again until the 23 aug - by sending today recorded delivery they have more than 14 days to get back to me.

 

might wake them up by putting ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE right at the top of the letter lol

 

i guess though if they DO provide a full and enforseable cca, then we can relook at either a very low offer or request credit card charges back too

 

have a fun day ciao for now MAZ

[angel_1]

Thank you Hopeful ive checked the links you gave in post 7 so will now i think best to send a fresh letter to mbna, as the other letters were sent to their monkeys rma and global and still never had any copies of the original cca's.

 

This way i know another 1.00 but will now fall within the law from the may 2008 date with the updated practice.

 

if they dont send within 14 days i now understand i can just report them to the tc.

 

however, is there now an updated letter for the cca including the new law ? i will now have a search

 

thanks maz

[angel_1]

hello all,

 

im on a bit of mad learning curve on all this, have tried to see if i did have all my statements and got a few missing where i suspect lots of charges, thus ive come across another helpful site for us people and found a letter that ive amended slightly to cover the data/subject access and cca all in one, I know will have to pay 10.00 and 1.00 total 11.00 but i think will be worth it for all the info being held by each company.

 

So here is the letter below i intend to send out see what you all think

thanks

*****************

 

Data Protection Act Disclosure Request

Subject Access Request

Consumer Credit Act Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account No: xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

In the first part under the Data Protection Act 1998:

 

Under the Data Protection Act 1984 and 1998, and including the right of subject access under these acts, please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to the above account(s) held with you since it/ they was/were opened.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply data relating to manual intervention because there has been no such manual intervention then please be kind as to confirm this in your response to this request.

 

For the avoidance of any and all doubt, I reiterate:

 

I hereby request that you supply me with any and all historical data in your possession which, in any way appertains to me, including (but not exhaustively) a copy of the original signed executed agreement; statements of account; duplicate statements and/or print outs of all account transactions; all internal and external correspondence sent or received by you including any memo, logs, notes, screen prints and transcripts; notes of manual interventions such as telephone attendants' notes, internal and external emails; any other information held on any/all types of media in any relevant filing system (microfiche included).

 

If you have disclosed any information to a third party (with or without my express permission), will you please include details of this in your reply, along with notes of any legal action passed or pending (to include a true copy of default notices, court orders and the like).

 

Where any information that you provide includes any charges, for example returned payments, late payment fees, and so forth, would you please advise your breakdown of actual costs (liquidated damages) incurred for each charge, and the Term or Condition on which you rely upon to claim such a charge.

 

I also require that you forward, within the above mentioned time scale, a copy of the original Terms and Conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened, and any subsequent amendments to those Terms and Conditions.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10.00 to access ALL data held by X about myself.

 

You should be fully aware of your statutory obligations under the Data Protection Act and that any failure to comply with this request will involve a complaint to the Information Commissioner Office.

 

You have 40 days in which to comply with this request.

 

 

 

In the second part under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

As per sections 77-79 of the above act, I hereby request a signed True Copy of the Original Executed Agreement for the above account number.

 

By law, you must comply with this request within 12 working days of having received it.

 

The statutory fee of £1.00 is required to be paid for this information, and I have enclosed a £1.00 Postal Order.

 

In responding to my request to supply a True Copy of the Original Executed Agreement, you must also provide any and all documents referred to in it. Where this may include Terms and Conditions as varied, I hereby specifically request a clearly readable and True Copy of the entire inception Terms and Conditions which form the original agreement, and all variations to them since.

 

Your obligations also extend to a signed statement of account.

 

I understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to neither enforce an agreement, increase any alleged indebtedness, nor disclose any information regarding me to any third part, until such time you fully comply with my request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

If you are unable to supply a True Copy of the Original Executed Agreement and all documents therein (and specifically the inception Terms and Conditions), I would be grateful if you would confirm this in your response within the 12 working days allowed.

 

This communication has been sent Recorded Delivery so I can ensure compliance on these issues within the legislative timeframes.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

NAME typed

 

CAPITAL LETTERS FULL NAME

 

Enc:

Postal Order for £1. 00. Specifically for CCA request and not to be credited to any account.

 

Postal Order for £10.00. Specifically for Data Protection Act/S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request and not to be credited to any account.

 

---------------------------------------------

see below for your files

 

((((Get your Postal Orders in advance AND a receipt. Before sending scan the postal order (front and back) with the receipt for proof. There's no harm in listing the PO number in the letter if you want to.)))))

[Hopeful1]

Hi Maz

 

Sorry not been online, but out and about all weekend.

 

That letter looks fine. It can be easier to start again when you understand more what you're doing and why!

 

I would stick to liasing directly with MBNA now, no matter who else turns up on the scene.

 

Let us know when you receive a response.

 

Best wishes

[angel_1]

hiya Hopeful1

 

yes thank you, i now feel i do understand more and everyone at the start does look to others for guidance but as you learn more and more, and take on board everyones advice, you get a feel for things and begin to feel far more confident.

 

So im just off to the post office get my postal orders then i can write my letter and tackle mbna first.

 

I will start my other threads as i complete each letter as i go along,

 

again much appreciated your guidance, im inspired by this all now so will update once i get any replies.

 

Ciao for now hope you had a good weeeknd and wish you a happy week

MAZ

[Hopeful1]

hiya Hopeful1

 

yes thank you, i now feel i do understand more and everyone at the start does look to others for guidance but as you learn more and more, and take on board everyones advice, you get a feel for things and begin to feel far more confident.

 

So im just off to the post office get my postal orders then i can write my letter and tackle mbna first.

 

I will start my other threads as i complete each letter as i go along,

 

again much appreciated your guidance, im inspired by this all now so will update once i get any replies.

 

Ciao for now hope you had a good weeeknd and wish you a happy week

MAZ

 

You have a good week too. I shall look out for your posts.

 

Take care

[angel_1]

hiya hopeful1

 

just before i go ive realised that i have 2 proper mbna credit card accounts, ie mbna, and mbna virgin, also have alliance and leicester but by mbna so in theory, i do need 3 seperate 1.00 postal orders for the cca but only 1 x 10.00 postal order for the Data Info

 

???

 

if you are still on quickly

 

ciao maz

[Hopeful1]

hiya hopeful1

 

just before i go ive realised that i have 2 proper mbna credit card accounts, ie mbna, and mbna virgin, also have alliance and leicester but by mbna so in theory, i do need 3 seperate 1.00 postal orders for the cca but only 1 x 10.00 postal order for the Data Info

 

???

 

if you are still on quickly

 

ciao maz

 

Hi Maz, think i'd just logged off when you posted. yes i would do the CCAs seperately, but the SAR should give all info. Make sure you put all 3 account nos. on the SAR request.

 

Because there are so many accounts i would be inclined to edit the letter you posted and do the 3 CCA requests seperately. It just helps to avoid any confusion.

 

I'd forgotten there were so many accounts otherwise i would have suggested that before - sorry

[angel_1]

hiya hopeful1

 

yes now thinking about it, i will do the main S.A.R letter to include the 3 accounts.

 

then a seperate letter for each account for the CCA requests

 

But will put all 4 seperate letters in the same envelope and send them recorded but will mark at the bottom of each letter the enc of each other letter and also mark the number of the Recorded delivery number signed for. I do hope it does make it very clear to them, as they are easily confused as previously sent me the current terms of conditions on each of my cca requests!!!

 

You are spot on, dont give them any room to wriggle out and marking it as clear and simple as possible. thank you

 

No worries, im still trying to get my head around all this, but once ive done this mbna one the others will be easier.

 

Thanks again have a fun day will log in later this pm

 

ciao for now MAZ

[LeDocteur]

Hiya Maz,

can I ask why...in your letter above...do you put "NAME typed"...???

 

I take it you mean it shouldn't be signed?

Why is that, please?

 

Hope all is going well for you and that this isn't taking too much of a toll.

LeDocteur

[Guest forgottenone]

I take it you mean it shouldn't be signed?

Why is that, please?

That is exactly correct. Because if you sign ... then the DCA/creditor has a sample of your signature ... and if you've received a blank CCA ... it is not unknown for it to be 'lifted' to that document. You will note that plenty of DCA/creditor letters are left unsigned, also but plenty containg electronic signatures ... copied from document to document ... and most look as if they've been left around the home, for a child to play with crayons or felt tips with.

 

This is a very unscrupulous industry, who does not give a damn for how it treats human beings. Whether those human beings be in hospital, terminally ill or be they disabled, suffering daily with terrible things.

 

That is the reality debtors face and, until they find somewhere like CAG, they can be at the mercy of these utter monsters for quite a while. By which time the damage to the human being concerned is terrible in the extreme. They want their money, they do not care about people as individual human beings, possibly suffering with illnesses ... in fact, it has been some experiences that this just makes a DCA/creditor turn the thumb screws on you more. That, in itself, shows this industry up for what it is. Put it this way, were this a 100 years ago they'd be using billyclubs on debtors ... things haven't changed, though.

 

So, there are perfectly good reasons never to sign letters to a DCA. It's an industry that thrives on confusion, inhumane treatment to debtors ... and non-compliance with laws in some instances.

[angel_1]

Good morning all

 

thanks for reading

 

LeDocteur - ive just seen your reply and i thank forgottenone for such a brilliant reply, thanks

 

it is for the very reasons given, although ive written print, infact just because im a bit of a rebel, ive changed my printed signature with the font just below Ariel on word document. So infact if anyone does try to use that ive got a valid point of evidence that no one can possibly sign as follows in the font given by word

 

My Signature

 

 

see above example

 

 

 

So if anyone fits that above font signature on any document ive got them licked and will show my true signature from my passport and my driving licence, Hope that makes sense, but as you learn stuff, you find you become more aware of your self preservation

 

My letters have gone Royal Mail recorded signed for 1st Class, and im now awaiting with bated breath, i really think ive caused them a bit of a headache and dont believe they will provide the documents

 

hope our info as helped you

ciao for now maz

Edited August 19, 2008 by maz1964

[angel_1]

hello all,

 

well, its interesting now even more since my last post no 20, i have today received a reply from R Vernon - compliance dept from MBNA

 

requesting that "for security reasons we require you to provide a form of postive identification ( an example of acceptable identification would be a copy of a driving licence or passport WHICH INCLUDES YOUR SIGNATURE"

 

I put into capital letters the bit im more concerned about re signature

 

I know ive read elsewhere that they dont have to have this, even though they say statement information has been posted to my address a current postal address is not an adequant form of identification. blah blah, they require extra id from customers due to the amount of personal information mbna will be sending me.

 

So my question is guys,, i didnt think legallly they have to ask this im of course worried as my real signature was not put onto my letters to them i put my signature in a font style similar but not at all the same as my signature, therefore i really dont want to give them this info if they are not legally oblged to have and why should they have a copy of my passport or driving license details, isnt that my data and i feel i can protect it from them as only the government really should have access to it?

 

Can anyone advise pls? or show my any letters done and what outcome they have had in responding to this

 

many thanks i await with bated breath, as i think this is the start of an ugly fight, but im ready

 

ciao for now have a fun day will log in laters MAZ

[angel_1]

hello all, im back again just thought of something before i log off, further to my post number 21

 

of course in the same envelope i requested copy of each of my mbna accounts for a copy of credit card agreeement and on these the law says they have to provide within 12 days - so in fact i guess i should wait for the them to perhaps default or send me thecopies of the cca FIRST before i send them a copy of my licence,

 

However, i still maintain, i m not happy with them having a copy of my personal details ie license or passport with my signature there,

 

so i will await on you experienced fellow cags to help me out on this,

 

sorry im all over the place today going to now pick up daughters exam results

 

ciao for now laters MAZ

[Hopeful1]

Phew! I'm glad you're ready for an ugly fight!!

 

When HFC asked me, i sent a copy of my driving licence but blocked out my signature!

 

However, since then, Paul has posted a good letter up which is here.

 

[Hopeful1]

hello all, im back again just thought of something before i log off, further to my post number 21

 

of course in the same envelope i requested copy of each of my mbna accounts for a copy of credit card agreeement and on these the law says they have to provide within 12 days - so in fact i guess i should wait for the them to perhaps default or send me thecopies of the cca FIRST before i send them a copy of my licence,

 

However, i still maintain, i m not happy with them having a copy of my personal details ie license or passport with my signature there,

 

so i will await on you experienced fellow cags to help me out on this,

 

sorry im all over the place today going to now pick up daughters exam results

 

ciao for now laters MAZ

 

Just seen this post - you won't be sending your signature!

 

Go get your daughter's results - i hope she does ok

[angel_1]

hiya hopeful1

 

i thought you would reply thank you and yes i would love to send that letter from Paul, lol just cos!!! haha sorry my mad humour

 

however, back to reality must chose which fights i must win, as you replied on my afterthoughts post, i defo wont be sending my signature and will wait on the cca too, only asked for the data info because have a few missing statements

 

i think i might actually send my cca to other creditors first and then tackle the data request giving them either the chance to provide the cca within the time frames or default then i can give more info to the obumdsman if i have to take it there together with the trading standards, but that letter is fab from paul, knew id seen something now ive read it

 

yes thanks she did well, and she worked hard. Here she comes to do Makeup Artistry at the college, god help them, she is lively just to say the least !!!

 

will check in laters have a good eve ciao maz