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    • You will probably get a couple more reminders followed by further demands fro unregulated debt collectors with even increasing amounts to pay. They are all designed to scare you into paying.  Don't. It's a scam site and they do not know who was driving and they know the keeper is not liable to pay the PCN. Also the shop was closed so they have no legitimate interest in keeping the car park clear. So to charge £100 is a penalty as there is no legitimate interest which means that the case would be thrown out if it went to Court.  Keep your money in your wallet and be prepared to ignore all their letters and threats. Doubtful they would go to Court since a lot more people would not pay when they heard  MET lost in Court. However they may just send you a Letter of Claim to test your resolve.  If yoy get one of those, come back to us and we will advise a snotty letter to send them.  You probably already have, but take a look through some of our past Met PCNs to see how they are doing.
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RE ABOVE

 

 

ii) By entering his existing credit card number in the relevant box the Defendant applied for his existing credit card balance to be transferred to any new credit card account:

 

-------------

IS THIS OFFICIALLY A MODIFICATION TO THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT ???

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Can someone tell me please, is there a difference between an application which is filled in at a Bank branch and one filled in at home ie a mail shot application. If so what are the differences?

 

Viano

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If you are talking about applictions for a credit card, I don't think there are any differences. However, it is an offence for banks to canvass for cards off trade premises and that would include your home (unless you carry out your business from home) - section 49 CCA 1974

 

 

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Hi Steven,

 

I ask because at the bottom left hand side of the application form it says 'Please complete and return to Card Services' and the address, also I seem to recall that in those days (2000ish) one received applications through the post as part of the Banks marketing programme. And if it were in house why would they, the Bank, need to know where to send it.

 

Viano

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Viano

 

You asked me to look at the POC in post #100. It's pretty thorough but does omit one or two important details:

 

1. They do not admit to actually having an enforceable agreement. All the stuff about terms is just hot air if they do not

 

2. In their detailed history, they omit to say if they sent a default notice. Again, if they did, not, the whole POC is hot air.

 

 

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Thanks for looking. As I have said in my last post I am concerned about the authenticity of the application and 2) I will look to see if there is a DN.

I'll let you know if I find a DN, and thanks again for your help.

 

Viano

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Steven,

 

I have had a thorough look, I can't find a DN.

 

With reference to the Order Para 2 states 'The Claimant do file at Court and serve upon the Defendant a fully particularised Particulars of Claim', it seems that they have not, what are the ramifications of this. Will this help my defence - which has to be filed by 4pm 31st December 2008.

 

 

V

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I would put in a defence but include this request.

 

Did they ever send a copy of an enforceable agreement?

 

If not, you defence would something like:

 

1. Basic 'history' of claim...

2. You are embarrased in providing a defence because they have not supplied an agreement or statement of account so you don't know what the debt is or how it is made up.

3. Some stuff on the importance of an agreement (from a pt2537 defence - loads around on the site)

4. They have been ordered by a court to provide... but have failed to do so

5. Ask the court to strike out their claim on the grounds that without an agreement they have no prospect of success (CPR 3.4(2)(a) and on the grounds that they have failed to comply with an order of teh court (CPR 3.4(2)©)

6. Request permission to amend your defence should the court not be minded to strike out the claim and if the claimant actually produces the required documents

 

 

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Hi Steven,

 

Re your post #108 1) they DO NOT admit to having an enforceable agreement. 2) Their fully particularised PoCs, post #100, consists of 'Agreement Number ***etc as in post #11 and the back of a full sized application form, the Ts being a different size from the front, a credit card brochure and credit card statements. These do not in my opinion constitute a detailed history. Also there is no mention of a DN.

 

Having read and re-read your comments their (fully particularised) claim seems to be waffle designed to confuse, and its working!

 

Another point, the application form is not filled out in my hand writing, how can I get sight of the original to be able to prove this?

 

Sorry to be incohereent, but I must get the bones done before Christmas so that I can get the finished article to the opposition by New Years Eve.

 

Viano

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Hi Steven,

 

The DN IS mentioned in 'Breach of the Agreement' Para 16 Amended PoCs.

 

As to the "Agreement" they allude to "Application Form and Agreement" and "the Application Form" This part of the PoCs is headed The Application.

 

The "Application Form" has a signature on it, but in their Amended PoCs the Ts & Cs are on a completely different sheet.

 

They don't as I read it actually have an enforceable agreement.

 

Your comments will, as ever, be welcome.

 

Viano

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A valid DN has a very specific format. Any variation makes it invalid.

 

To be enforceable, an agreement must have your signature and the prescribed terms on one shet of paper. For a credit card, the prescribed terms are the credit limit or a statemement that there isn't one, how the minimum repayments are derived and the interest rate. The other T&Cs can be in a seperate document.

 

 

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Should they have sent me a DN with the Amended PoCs?, and the "Application Form" they have sent me is on a very different size of paper to the "Card Conditions"

 

Within the package they sent me is a copy of an original (blank) application form - much larger than the copy of what they are calling "The Agreement". Also, 2/3rds of the way down on this virgin application form it says 'Please complete and return to: Card Services etc, etc. Now call me picky, but if I filled in this form, why is it NOT in my hand writing? Can I bring this up in my Defence.

 

Viano

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They have sent you a whole bunch of stuff but none of it amounts to an enforceable agreement AFAICS.

 

Pt2537's defences have a whole load of stuff about the need for a valid agreement - you should include that.

 

 

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  • 5 weeks later...

I am trying to get to grips with the AQ, its got to be in the post last thing Friday 22nd Jan 2009, but I am bogged down so any help will be gratefully received.

 

Relevant previous posts #90 Court Order and #100 Amended PoCs.

 

Questions-

 

1) No Copy of DN in the PoC, is this relevant as I read somewhere that all docs. that will be relied on should be in the PoCs. Is this CPR part 16.

 

2) Application/Agreement in the bundle are patently not the same document as the T's & C's.

 

3) Can I still ask for a physical inspection of the Application/Agreement, I think its 31:14 to prove/disprove this.

 

4) There are unlawful charges in the statements they sent me.

 

5) I complained to the bank about the charges in June 2007 and to the FoS in November, should I mention this.

 

6) Can I use, I think its 3.4 (2)© part 3, as they have not complied with the Court Order, see post 90.

 

7) What are the chances that they still have the Original Documents.

 

I'm sorry that I've left it rather late, but I have been somewhat unwell and am not yet fully recovered and am still not thinking clearly.

 

Viano

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Hi Steven,

 

I could really do with some help on the draft directions please.

 

I believe that the opposition have not complied with the Court Order, see post 90, which in my opinion should cover anything I put in the draft directions i.e. a non compliant application form and no copy of a DN allegedly sent in August 2008.

 

In 'Other Information' I am going to quote CPR part 16 Practice Direction 16, CCA s61(1)(a), s60(1)(2) and SI 1983/1553.

 

How should I point out to the Court that they have apparently blatantly failed to comply with the Order issued last November.

 

I am sorry if I sound vague but I am still suffering a viral infection and am not yet thinking clearly.

 

Regards

 

Viano

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