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    • Morning, I purchased a car from Big Motoring World on 10th December 2023 for £14899.00. On the 15th December I had a problem with the auto start stop function of the car in which the car would stop in the middle of the road with a stop start error message. I called the big assist and the car was booked in for February. The BMW was with them for a week and it came back with the auto stop start feature all fine and all error codes cleared on the report from big motoring world. within 5 days I had the same issue. Warning light coming on and the car stopping. I called big assist again and the car was again booked in for an other repair in May. Car was taken back in may, they had the car for a week and returned with the report saying no issue with the auto stop start feature and blamed my driving. Within 5 days of having the car back it broke down again. This time undrivable. I had the rac pick my car up and take to Stephen James BMW for a full diagnostic. The diagnostic came back with the car needing a new fuel system as magnetic swarf was found.  I have sent big motoring world a letter stating all the issues and that under the consumer rights act 2015 I have asked for a replacement vehicle. all reports from Stephen James BMW have been sent over to big motoring world. Big motoring world have come back and said they will respond to my complaint within 14 days for the date of my complaint letter. I am not feeling confident on the response from them, what are my next steps?   Thanks in advance. 
    • That is really good is that a mistake last off "driver doesn't have a licence" I assume that should be keeper? The Court requested me to send the Court and applicant proof of my sons disability from their GP this clearly shows he has Severe Mental Impairement, he is also illiterate.  I naively assumed once the applicant received this that they would drop the claim.  It offends me that Bank has asked the Judge to throw the case out at the preliminary hearing and to make us pay up.
    • Hi, we are looking to get some opinions on weather or not to bother fighting this PCN. This comes from a very big retail park parking where there are restaurants, hotel, amongst other businesses. The parking is free but I suppose there must be a time limit on it that I am not aware of. We were in the area for around 4 hours. Makes us wonder how they deal with people staying in the hotel as the ANPR is on what appears to be a publicly maintained street (where london buses run) which leads to the different parking areas including the hotel.  1 Date of the infringement 26/05/2024 2 Date on the NTK  31/05/2024 3 Date received 07/06/2024 4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]  YES 5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Entry and exit photos however, based on the photographs we are almost sure the photos are taken on public street. This is the location I believe photos are taken from.  https://maps.app.goo.gl/eii8zSmFFhVZDRpbA 6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A 7 Who is the parking company? UKPA. UK Parking Administration LTD 8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] The Colonnades, Croydon, CR0 4RQ For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. British Parking Association (BPA) Thanks in advance for any assistance.  UKPA PCN The Collonades-redacted.pdf
    • Thank you for posting their WS. If we start with the actual WS made by the director one would have doubts that they had even read PoFA let alone understood it. Point 10  we only have the word of the director that the contract has been extended. I should have had the corroboration of the Client. Point 12 The Judge HHJ Simkiss was not the usual Judge on motoring cases and his decisions on the necessity of contracts did not align with PoFA. In Schedule 4 [1[ it is quite clearly spelt out- “relevant contract” means a contract (including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land) between the driver and a person who is—(a)the owner or occupier of the land; or (b authorised, under or  by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land; And the laughable piece of paper from the land owners cannot be described as a contract. I respectfully ask that the case be dismissed as there is no contract. WE do not even know what the parking regulations are which is really basic. It is respectfully asked that without a valid contract the case cannot continue. One would imagine that were there a valid contract it would have been produced.  So the contract that Bank has with the motorist must come from the landowner. Bank on their own cannot impose their own contract. How could a director of a parking company sign a Statement of Truth which included Point 11. Point 14. There is no offer of a contract at the entrance to the car park. Doubtful if it is even an offer to treat. The entrance sign sign does not comply with the IPC Code of Conduct nor is there any indication that ANPR cameras are in force. A major fault and breach of GDPR. Despite the lack of being offered a contract at the entrance [and how anyone could see what was offered by way of a contract in the car park is impossible owing to none of the signs in the WS being at all legible] payment was made for the car to park. A young person in the car made the payment. But before they did that, they helped an elderly lady to make her payment as she was having difficulty. After arranging payment for the lady the young lad made his payment right behind. Unfortunately he entered the old lady's number again rather than paying .for the car he was in. This can be confirmed by looking at the Allow List print out on page 25. The defendant's car arrived at 12.49 and at 12.51 and 12.52  there are two payments for the same vrm. This was also remarked on by the IPC adjudicator when the PCN was appealed.  So it is quite disgraceful that Bank have continued to pursue the Defendant knowing that it was a question of  entering the wrong vrm.  Point 21 The Defendant is not obliged to name the driver, they are only invited to do so under S9[2][e]. Also it is unreasonable to assume that the keeper is the driver. The Courts do not do that for good reason. The keeper in this case does not have a driving licence. Point 22. The Defendant DID make a further appeal which though it was also turned down their reply was very telling and should have led to the charge being dropped were the company not greedy and willing to pursue the Defendant regardless of the evidence they had in their own hands. Point 23 [111] it's a bit rich asking the Defendant to act justly and at proportionate cost while acting completely unjustly themselves and then adding an unlawful 70% on to the invoice. This  is despite PoFA S4[5] (5)The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 9[2][d].  Point 23 [1v] the Director can deny all he wants but the PCN does not comply with PoFA. S9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN only quotes the ANPR arrival and departure times which obviously includes a fair amount of driving between the two cameras. Plus the driver and passengers are a mixture of disabled and aged persons who require more time than just a young fit single driver to exit the car and later re enter. So the ANPR times cannot be the same as the required parking period as stipulated in the ACT. Moreover in S9[2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; You will note that in the PCN the words in parentheses are not included but at the start of Section 9 the word "must" is included. As there are two faults in the PCN it follows that Bank cannot pursue the keeper . And as the driver does not have a driving licence their case must fail on that alone. And that is not even taking into consideration that the payment was made. Point 23 [v] your company is wrong a payment was made. very difficult to prove a cash payment two weeks later when the PCN arrives. However the evidence was in your print out for anyone to see had they actually done due diligence prior to writing to the DVLA. Indeed as the Defendant had paid there was no reasonable cause to have applied for the keeper details. Point 24 the Defendant did not breach the contract. The PCN claimed the Defendant failed to make a payment when they had made a payment.   I haven't finished yet but that is something to start with
    • You don't appeal to anyone. You haven't' received a demand from a statutory body like the council, the police or the courts. It's just a dodgy cowboy company trying it on. You simply don't pay.  In the vast majority of these cases the company deforest the Amazon with threats about how they are going to divert a drone from Ukraine and make it land on your home - but in the end they do nothing.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Lloyds v Me


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Hi all,

 

Just a quick thank you to you all for your help so far. I feel that I have just got to step back for a few hours to clear my mind before next weeks onslaught.

 

I will be back!.

 

V

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Thanks.

 

Quick update. It really WAS an allocation hearing, all done and over in 10 mins although we were booked for 30.

 

One point emerged though, regarding track allocation we are over the £15k mark. We, the opposition and I had agreed that if possible we go the fast track route. HH asked the other side if the claim included interest, yes she said!. Will, if they 'find' a DN and include the full sum (including interest) on the claim form affect the validity of the DN?

 

By the way the trial date is 20/25 weeks away.

 

V

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Thanks.

 

Quick update. It really WAS an allocation hearing, all done and over in 10 mins although we were booked for 30.

 

One point emerged though, regarding track allocation we are over the £15k mark. We, the opposition and I had agreed that if possible we go the fast track route. HH asked the other side if the claim included interest, yes she said!. Will, if they 'find' a DN and include the full sum (including interest) on the claim form affect the validity of the DN?

 

By the way the trial date is 20/25 weeks away.

 

V

 

If the Default note contains penalties/charges then that will affect the claim as they cant be included so I guess any interest on those charges will make the sum asked for incorrect. Do you have statements that you can check the figure against if there are any penalties included on the statements then you should be able to see if the DN is incorrect. Did you do a Subject Access request, if so, is there an activity log, you could probably see from there if and when a DN was sent and possibly what the sum in arrears was at the time.

 

20 + weeks give you a bit of time to prepare:)

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Hi cB,

 

I do have statements and the do include penalty/charges.

 

I haven't SAR'd them, they say that they sent a DN in August 07, this is the one I've not received. It will contain penalties and charges I'm sure.

 

I will no doubt get a copy of the DN - if they have one - at the disclosure stage. Suffice to say that I have letters showing different alleged balances!.

I have also just discovered that in the amended PoC's that the alleged DN was sent in August 07, but I have a letter dated May 07 saying "despite serveral reminders including the issue of a Default Notice". How does this work? How many times can you be be defaulted on the same account?.

 

By the way I was told by the opposition yesterday that despite the CPR 31.14 request they don't need to comply as all the docs will be available at the disclosure stage.

 

V

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Sadly they can issue as many default notices they like until such times as they terminate the account.

 

YOu say you have letters that say

 

"Despite several reminders including the issue of a default notice"

 

Is that from the solicitors and does it say it is a FORMAL DEMAND and does it ask for the full balance outstanding ?

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Hi cB,

 

Sorry for the delay, but I managed to get a few days away.

 

Yes it is from the solicitors, and yes it makes "formal demand", and yes it asks for the "account balance as demanded above"

 

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Hi cB,

 

Sorry for the delay, but I managed to get a few days away.

 

Yes it is from the solicitors, and yes it makes "formal demand", and yes it asks for the "account balance as demanded above"

 

V

 

 

Then I would say, if they DIDNT send a Default notice then they are on dodgy ground because they must follow procedure.. ie DN (correctly issued), Formal Demand/Termination. If they issued a Dodgy DN, ie not the correct format, insufficient time, perhaps issued the formal demand/termination before the remedy date was up then they are on even dodgier ground.

 

You need to see a copy of that Default Notice. Did you send a Subject Access Request, in that was there a communications log which perhaps detailed all the action on your account ie telephone calls, letters sent. If so, check around the time the Formal Demand was issued say a month backwards and see if it is recorded that a DN was issued. :)

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By the way I was told by the opposition yesterday that despite the CPR 31.14 request they don't need to comply as all the docs will be available at the disclosure stage.

 

V

 

when you say "told" was this in writing or via a telephone call?. They are expected to comply with CPR and leaving it right till the last minute to provide documents is not good. I believe you can ask to amend your defence if they provide information you havent seen before. If this was in writing, then include it in your court bundle for the DJ to see how difficult they have been.

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I was told this when their barrister and I met before the allocation hearing.

 

I didn't SAR them but I did send a CPR 31.14 request Their answer (as posted earlier) says they (as I read it) don't have supply the info as this will be included at the disclosure. Somehow this does not seem right to me!

 

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Hi Viano,

 

X20 provided an insight into this in the link below.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html#post1707671

 

 

IMHO, the idea of CPR 31:14 is to sort out a few issues regarding the existence of documents before hand and is part of the Over riding objectives.

 

Still, it would seem the claimants are saying they are "not obliged". It is probably a good idea to make sure the court is aware of this kind of response.

 

I think you have the right to ask to be able to amend your defence in the light of new or previously unavailable paperwork and if they "ambush" on the day you with stuff not previously provided or disclosed, you can ask for an adjournment (sp) to study the paperwork.

 

Have a read of X20's thread, he might have covered this problem more fully in later posts.

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4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Sadly they can issue as many default notices they like until such times as they terminate the account.

 

YOu say you have letters that say

 

"Despite several reminders including the issue of a default notice"

 

Is that from the solicitors and does it say it is a FORMAL DEMAND and does it ask for the full balance outstanding ?

 

I don't actually agree with this CB, it will take a lot of convincing, no offence to you, but im getting fed up of the same points coming up on DNs, so lets clarify my position.

 

My take from CCA 1974 is that

 

1. They issue a DN....you fail to remedy, they send another letter to saying pay up, this constitutes a Termination Notice (not withstanding the fact that most of them have not been produced in the prescribed format and are therefore invalid anyway)...End of!

 

2. You remedy in the required time frame, then when you default next....another DN

 

3. THERE CAN ONLY EVER BE ONE DN, (if the 1st one was not remedied) THIS IS THE FIRST ONE WHICH HAS NOT BEEN REMEDIED.

 

I have tried to clarify point 3 on here so many times, and have had no reply that, 1, i believe i am correct, 2. im fed up of raising the subject so give up

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Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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Sadly they can issue as many default notices they like until such times as they terminate the account.

 

 

I don't actually agree with this CB, it will take a lot of convincing, no offence to you, but im getting fed up of the same points coming up on DNs, so lets clarify my position.

 

My take from CCA 1974 is that

 

1. They issue a DN....you fail to remedy, they send another letter to saying pay up, this constitutes a Termination Notice (not withstanding the fact that most of them have not been produced in the prescribed format and are therefore invalid anyway)...End of!

 

2. You remedy in the required time frame, then when you default next....another DN

 

3. THERE CAN ONLY EVER BE ONE DN, (if the 1st one was not remedied) THIS IS THE FIRST ONE WHICH HAS NOT BEEN REMEDIED.

 

I have tried to clarify point 3 on here so many times, and have had no reply that, 1, i believe i am correct, 2. im fed up of raising the subject so give up

 

CCM

 

AFAIAC you are right - there can only ever be one valid DN at any given time for a given account

 

Sorry CCM, I didnt mean to wind you up on this issue:) This is my understanding of the CCA1974 as well. However, many DJ's are finding in favour of the claimant.. take PF's recent court case in which he had not just one, but two Dodgy DNs. However, there was no specific Termination notice.

 

 

Please, please do not give up :)

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4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi All,

 

Thanks for the comments, any ideas as to where I might find the definitive info?

 

If my replies are spasmodic I apologise, but I use Orange Mobile for my internet and either they or I am having problems with the signal and/or "atmospherics".

 

Viano

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I think it is probably Orange. They seem to have a bad rep at the moment.:D

 

I think you will find all you need in the statutes library linked below

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/57-statutes/176-consumer-credit-act-1974-and-related-regulations-

 

Or perhaps using BRW's post below, which seems to have the specific information linked rather than trawling through the statute library.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2166205.html

 

HTH

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I spent HOURS on the phone yesterday to Orange-they admitted that they had had a major failure, that my SIM card and/or my "dongle" might have failed, and, that someone might have stolen some of the valuable kit from the local mast!!

 

I will look at BRWs thread and hopefully digest. I hope, and it looks like it, that they may have fouled up.

 

The score so far, agreement/application with no prescribed terms on the signature page, no apparent or possibly two DNs, and I need to find a reference to a termination notice. All this on top of a complaint over charges to the FoS in June/July 2007!!!.

 

Oh happy days.

 

And I've just lost the (wireless) signal - again.

Viano

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Oops, hope you get your connection sorted out.

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5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK Team, an update. BTW The internet seems to be 'on song' again

 

I am now even more confused than ever. On my return after a few days away I got home (this morning) to a re-Amended PoC.

 

Now!

(1) The Claim number is the same, as is the Claimants name, but, the Claimants reference is different.

 

(2) In the re-Amended PoC it is stated that ' In compliance with this order the Claimant filed and served an an Amended PoC on the **/**/**. However, paragraph ** referred to a DN being issued on the **/**/**, when in fact the correct date for issue was the **/**/**. Further paragraph ** referred to the Formal Demand being issued on the **/**/**, when in fact the correct date for the issue was the **/**/**. As a result of these errors the Amended PoC included reference to the incorrect dates.

 

(3) If the Claimant is permitted to re-amend its Claim, it is accepted that permission would have to be granted to the Defendant to re-amend the Defence, if required. It is submitted that permitting the amendments is in the interests of justice because it ensures that the real issues between the parties are properly before the Court.

 

(4) The Court is respectfully asked to make an order in the terms of the draft order appended hereto'.

 

They have requested an order that (as I read it):-

That the Claimant has permission to amend the PoC in the form supplied to the Defendant and the Court. Further serving and filing be dispensed with. Followed by dates of service etc.

 

I will post further details if required.

 

I hope para 2 above made sense with the asterisks

 

What does this mean, what do I do now, answers on a postcard please to....

 

(Also I have to do the disclosure, witness statements etc thing but more of this latter.)

 

V

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