Council Tax/Lawson Maclaine - Telling me can only be sorted with a visit from them...

[Peepo]

Hello, my council tax arrears debt has been sent to Lawson Maclaine, has anyone heard of them?

I called them up to set up a payment arrangement & Ive been told the only way I can set up a payment arrangement is by having them come round & see me in my home.

Does anyone know if this is true. Im wary of letting them into my house.

Thanks

[gni03349]

Do NOT let them into your home.. the only way anybody can visit you is by invitation, or by order of the court.

 

Of course, they want to get into your home, so they can see what goods you have and then probably try to con you into signing a Walking Possession Agreement, which means they can come back at any time and break in if necessary to take your goods!!

 

If they turn up, there is a letter you should hand over to them, and NOT sign. However, I will have to find it, unless somebody else comes along and posts it for you.

[Peepo]

Ahhh, I thought they might be tricking me. I was gong to lock the house & talk with them out the front, just to make sure. Tell them Ive been locked out or something.

[gni03349]

You may want to take a look at this...

 

Debt Basics - Bailiff Guide - know your rights

[gni03349]

Thanks to ODC for this (taken from another thread).

 

You will have to edit parts to suit your circumstances. This is to post to them... by recorded delivery preferably, keeping the receipt of course. Keep a few copies, and if a bailiff turns up, hand him a copy of it.

 

 

DOORSTEP COLLECTION VISIT – PLEASE READ CAREFULLY

 

 

 

I refer to your recent correspondence.

 

I note it is your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and civil action will be taken.

 

Furthermore I do not acknowledge any alleged debt owed to Hutchison Telecoms for a mobile phone contract. This contract was terminated in OCT 2007. You have failed to provide any proof whatsoever that I have signed any further contract with the company or indeed I have used a mobile phone on their network since that date. Unless you can provide DOCUMENTARY evidence to substansiate your claims I will not be entering into any further discussion with you regarding this matter.

 

 

 

 

Post this off Recorded Delivery and see what happens. DO NOT SIGN the letter __________________

[Peepo]

Pants, I already made an appointment with them, does that matter?

[Peepo]

Also, Im not sure if this is a judgement from the court or whether the debt has only just been sent to bailiffs. How do I gt this back into the hands of local authority & away from bailiffs?

[gni03349]

If it was through the court, you would have received a copy.

 

When did you make the appointment for? Send the letter anyway.. get all the details you can about any bailiff that turns up, and refuse to divulge any information at all. Hell.. even wait outside for him if you have to. If anybody turns up, hand them a copy of the letter, and send them on their way. They have no legal right to enter your home unless its with YOUR permission, or with a court order.

 

They prey on the fact that they "think" people don't know their rights, and abuse the law to suit themselves.

 

You can even phone them up and cancel any appoinrment.. don't listen to what they say when they say it's not possible!

 

I would PM TomTubby, and ask for some help on this (find any post from TT, and click on the name. You will then see a screen, and on it in small letters it will say "send message"). The fact you arranged an appointment might mean you "invited" them round. However.. under false pretences. What they told you is complete rubbish.

 

Good luck.

[Peepo]

Damn, I wish I had stuck by my guns on the phone & refused to make an appointment. He was so convincing when he was telling me that because its council tax the law sais they must come round to my house to speak with me

[Peepo]

OK, Ive just looked through my papaer work. The debt was taken to court & a payment arrangement set up. But because I lost my job 8 weeks ago & have been unable to make payments the debt has been sent to bailiffs. Does this mean they have a court order?

Im printing out an N245 to take to the court to see if I can stop this.

[Peepo]

Ive called the council & they tell me the payment agreement wasnt a court order, & they have now sent my debt to a bailiff and its something called a 'liability order' I dont know what any of this means

But from what I cant work out, it means I cant fill in an N245 form to request the suspension of a warrant or a variation of an order, because the debt hasnt been to county court & there is no court order??

Can anyone help me unmuddle the mess?

Thanks

[gni03349]

...

Edited June 17, 2008 by gni03349
new post as was answering...

[gni03349]

So if there is no court order, there is no need for them to be visiting, unless you invite them, and you can call, fax, write etc to cancel your "invite".

 

Deal with the council direct, and tell them of the bailiffs fairy story. Tell them you want to arrange to pay off the amount through an agreement with them. Try calling them first, and regardless of their reply, follow it up in writing restating what you said in the phone call.

 

It might be worth mentioning to them that they are liable for the actions of these bailiffs (as the council employed them), and with the lies you are being told, it may or may not implicate them in any further proceedings, should that happen.

[Peepo]

hello, thanks for reply. I have cancelled the appointment with bailiffs. They tried to get me to make another appointment but I said I would be in touch instead.

 

The council have said to me on the phone that now it is in the hands of the bailiffs they cant request it back & it is nothing to do with them.

Im wondering why they just didnt apply to have the money taken out of my benefits?

 

So I guess I will have to dodge the bailiffs for now & wait for it to be sent back to the council so I can set up a new payment arrangement? Or should I try & negotiate with the bailiffs? Ive read that the only way they will negotiate is if I agree to sign a walking posession agreement. I guess these are signed by way of showing your commitment to paying off the debt?

[gni03349]

The council are talking out of their.....

 

The bailiffs have no legal right of entry as there was no court order to allow them to do so. A Walking Posession Agreement allows them to enter your home and take your goods. DON'T sign anything at all.

 

Of course they will insist that you pay the whole amount in one go, but quite simply, if you don't have it, you can't give it to them, so it's in their interests to accept a reasonable monthly amount.

[pennypenny]

Hi Peepo,

 

Have a look at this thread from the bailiffs section, there is a letter on the first post about making a payment arrangement. It is quite a long thread and I havent managed to read it all but there'll probably be some good info in there.

 

Council Tax and Bailiffs

 

Penny:-)

[Peepo]

Thanks Penny, I will check it out

[postggj]

just asking

 

what legislation can you use to get a council to take back the debt if they refuse. ie saying it is in the hands of the baliffs.

me thinking avoiding baliff fees, if debt paid direct to council, the liability order is satisfied, so no debt.

[ss002d6252]

There is no legislation to force the return of a account from the bailiff. If you pay the council direct then the bailiff can pursue you separately for their fees.

[Conniff]

Not quite right ss.

 

If the bailiffs have never been into your home and they will not accept your offer, all they can do is to pass your debt back to the Council.

 

The council will then have to consider other ways of getting the payment ie taking it from your wages or qualifying benefits.

 

It does mean that the debt is back with the council and you should come to an arrangement with them to make payments.

 

The council can take it back, they usually say they can't because they can't be bothered.

[ss002d6252]

It is right as far as the legislation goes - there is no legislation to force the council to take the account back, what the legislation does allow is for the council or the bailiff request that accounts be returned at their discretion.

 

Its not so much as not being bothered, its a matter of cost. Very few contacts with the bailiff will allow the council to take back cases for free - someone has to pay. Why should the rest of the taxpayers foot the bill ?

[Peepo]

The bailiffs came round this afternoon even though I cancelled the appointment. I wasnt home.

I have a letter through my door 'We have attended your address in order to execute a liability order, issued by the magistrates court'

 

Ive sent a letter to the council telling them it was wrong of them to send my account to bailiffs 2 days after I called them to say Id lost my job & 2 days after the first payment on the payment arrangement was due.

Hopefully they will see reason & see that they have treated me wronlgy & this matter can be sorted out.

 

All this mess is really uncalled for. All they had to do was reasess my payment arrangement to allow for me losing my job, not send my account to bailiffs.

Whats wrong with this country??

[Conniff]

You are so deluding yourself Peepo if you think the council give a damn about you, your family or your job.

As far as they are concerned, you are the selfish one for buying food when you could use that money to pay them.

 

Remember these are the people that sends pensioners to prison for non payment.

[Peepo]

True, but Ive read alot of success stories on this site regarding this matter so hopefully I will be one of the lucky ones for once in my life.

[Logan154]

I have the same problem with north tyneside council, the just won't talk to me.

 

I'll be watching your thread with interest, Good luck mate.