Ebay Nightmare (please help)

[azidas]

Hi there, i am new to this and a little out of my depth, so i am seeking advice from you all.

 

to cut a long story short, i purchased a car on ebay a couple of weeks ago taking out a bank loan for just over £1000 as was the price of the car, paying a non - refundable deposit of £100 through paypal.

 

as i picked up the car the description was fairly accurate by sight. i took it for a quick drive around the block and decided to go ahead with the purchase.

on the journey home the car developed a serious vibration which got worse and became very hard to control unless travelling at less then 50 mph. as i was nearer home and it was getting dark so i pressed on with the journey.

 

i phoned the seller about this problem and his reply was ''Sorry mate i cant help you''.

i then phoned trading standards who told me i had the right to reject the car on the basis that the car did not drive as stated (''Spot on'') and they provided an outline of a letter giving the seller 7 days to refund in full and collect the car. the next stage would be LBA giving a 14 days notice to file in the small claims court.. My worries are that even if small claims file in my favour which TS thinks they will, the seller who I think must be about 17 - 18yrs would end up paying me in small installments. His family owns a shop and he is selling many cars and hiding bidders I.D's. Please could someone help me as I'm getting really confused about what to do next. He hasn't responded to the letter in the 7 days either.

 

Thanks in advance

Azidas

[Hopeful1]

This is just my opinion, but if that is the only way you can recoup your money, you may just have to accept this. Wait and see if others offer a further opinion.

 

With regards to the way user info is being used - have you reported it to Ebay?

[ScarletPimpernel]

If the seller is a trader, and if he's regularly selling cars on Ebay then he is, then he may need reminding of his responsibilities as a trader.

 

Is he paying tax on his income as a trader?

Are the premises he's operating from registered for the purpose - and is he paying the appropriate business rates?

Is he VAT registered (if his turnover is high enough)?

Is he properly insured?

 

I suspect that you can make life rather more uncomfortable for him than he can for you. Ask your Trading Standards department to speak to his local TS about him.

[azidas]

thankyou both very much for giving me your time, your advice is very valuable to me i will bring up those things with TSA and the seller. any more suggestions are most appreciated, this is a great site

[nufsaid]

Anything classed as high value on ebay the bidders are hidden automatically to protect them this is done by ebay.

You could contact paypal and have your £100 reversed to start off with open a dispute panel with ebay has the seller got much in the way of negative feedback ?

[azidas]

Hi thanks for your reply, i tried to have my £100 reversed but it said i was not covered for buyers protection. i did raise a dispute with ebay and left negative feedback, and about an hour later someone else left negative feedback also so i sent him a msg asking if we could help each other. cant hurt can it?

[nufsaid]

Thats a fab tactic you could both put in complaints to ebay about the seller do it all in righting and as SP has said if he is selling high volumes of cars a call to trading standards is defiantly in order print off this guys previous sales that are listed and what he has on offer now especially cars.

Then if you do have to go to court you will have all the info you need about this guys tradings as a whole.

Good luck keep us posted.

NS

[IdaInFife]

Anything classed as high value on ebay the bidders are hidden automatically to protect them this is done by ebay.

 

All Bidders id are hidden now not just on high volume sellers.

 

If the seller is a trader then it is better for you.

 

Can you give us the item number to take a look?

 

 

Idax

[azidas]

Hi there thanks for replying the item number is 110235226238 and someone else has asked me for more details about my purchase so I'm hoping this is another unhappy buyer maybe between us we can help each other.

[nufsaid]

That is good news you should all write to ebay as a group they would have to sit up and listen.

Good luck

NS

[falcon185]

Hi,

you could also quote the "Sales of Goods Act" to him, he has sold you a vehicle that is not fit for its purpose i.e. it cannot be driven and is more likely to be a dangerous vehicle. I would also print off the Add he placed so you have proof of what was advertised, i.e. " drives spot on " ( stating a false hood there too )

[rps1969]

Hi

 

Take a look here

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/c_buying_at_auction.pdf

 

I think it will save you a lot of time.

[IdaInFife]

Seller is defiinatley a trader.

 

He has been reported to TS before and i think you should do the same.

 

Contact his local Trading Standards and remind them that although its obvious hes a trader he trying to say hes a private seller.

 

 

idax

[basic147]

TBH although I sympathise you need to put this down to experience. If you buy a car for £1000 and was given a chance to test it then the seller would argue that the fault had developed after its was sold. So if I were you I would put it down to experience and test cars more thoroughly especially when you buying low priced cars on ebay!

[buzby]

Having looked at the listing - and remembering this is for a TWELVE year old car, your really need to ensure you have checked out the car to see if it behaves in the way you expect it. You did this after your indication to purchase, and you did not reject the car at the time of sale. This seller appears to be doing this as a 'hobby' so caveat emptor would apply. It may be easier either to fix the problem, OR sell it on under the same conditions.

[Bookworm]

TBH although I sympathise you need to put this down to experience. If you buy a car for £1000 and was given a chance to test it then the seller would argue that the fault had developed after its was sold. So if I were you I would put it down to experience and test cars more thoroughly especially when you buying low priced cars on ebay!

 

Having looked at the listing - and remembering this is for a TWELVE year old car, your really need to ensure you have checked out the car to see if it behaves in the way you expect it. You did this after your indication to purchase, and you did not reject the car at the time of sale. This seller appears to be doing this as a 'hobby' so caveat emptor would apply. It may be easier either to fix the problem, OR sell it on under the same conditions.

Couldn't disagree more. "Caveat Emptor" is one thing, but the seller still has a responsibility to describe the car accurately. Would OP have bid for the car if it had been described with the fault he describes? Or paid that much for it?

 

From TS website:

The general rule is ‘let the buyer beware’ when you buy from a private individual. It is up to you to find out whether the car is of satisfactory quality, to make your own checks on what you are told and to take responsibility for your choice, as the seller is not liable for the satisfactory quality of the vehicle. You are still entitled, however, to expect the car to be ‘as described’. If the advertisement says ‘2000 Ford Focus’ or ‘excellent condition’ then it should be exactly that. It is important to remember that it may be much more difficult for you to enforce your rights against a private individual.

Whether you buy privately or from a motor trader, you are entitled to expect that the car is roadworthy when you buy it, unless you and the seller clearly agree it is to be sold as scrap.

 

 

The advice given by TS is spot on and definitely what you should go on, and if it means you get your money little by little, it's still better than nothing.

 

You must do it ASAP, though, and in writing. And in case you hadn't thought of it, don't drive the car! Oh, and if you haven't done so yet, make sure you have a screenshot of the e-bay listing to show the car is not as described. 7 sales, 3 negs, ouch.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[buzby]

Sorry - you overlook the fact that a perfect defence is that the seller was unaware of any issue that affected the vehicle. If the fault only appeared at 60mph, and the seller never drove it at that speed, he could not reasonably be expected to warrant the car to be free of defects. Of course, to be roadworthy an MoT is required. Even then, this only is valid on the day of the test.

 

Nothing in the TS statement differs from my view, and the description was accurate. Unless you can prove the seller had knowledge of a flaw (almost impossible to prove) then caveat emptor remains supreme. The listing showing an RAC inspection could be purchased - was this taken up? Of course not.

 

Sorry, but even if the seller ignores the letter of complaint, any possible court action IMHO will ultimately fail. Repairing the fault and chalking it up to experience may be the more valuable lesson.

[Bookworm]

So you're saying the advice given to OP by Trading Standards is wrong and that you know consumer law better than them?

 

Wow.

[Chesterexpress]

His family owns a shop and he is selling many cars

 

Looking at his feedback he has sold a couple of cars, therefore I agree with the poster who said he is probably doing it as a hobby. No real signs of being a trader. Buzby is correct, it is down to the buyer to have fully checked out the vehicle prior to purchase. It is fine for TS to say something, however when it comes down to taking action through the courts it is very likely that the OP would lose this one.

[Bookworm]

Wrong.

 

It's actually a much simpler premise that you're making out, and it goes like this:

 

Was the car as described? No.

Therefore, does the OP have the right to reject the car as "not as described"? Yes.

 

It's a statutory right and that makes it very powerful indeed.

13. Sale by description

 

(1) Where there is a contract for the sale of goods by description, there is an implied term that the goods will correspond with the description.

The argument, should it go to court, would be on that, and whether the goods were as described or not, and therefore whether OP had the right to reject the goods under SOGA. I think that unless the judge decides that "the car drives spot on" actually means "the car drives ok as long as you don't go over 50, at which point it becomes difficult to control due to the vibration level, and it may actually be unroadworthy", OP would have a fairly easy win.

 

This, of course, is simply my opinion, and as usual, one must let OP decide whose advice he thinks is worth following.

[IdaInFife]

It may seem the buyer is doing this as a hobby but if he has bought this car to sell on he is a trader whether it be 2 cars or 200 cars.

 

Op follow TS' advice.

 

I know you are more concernced on the paying back of these monies but if it does sound like this may be the case of a business then all the better for you.

 

Idax

[Chesterexpress]

It may seem the buyer is doing this as a hobby but if he has bought this car to sell on he is a trader whether it be 2 cars or 200 cars.

 

Proving that someone who has sold two cars is a motor trader will be near impossible. Sorry but as has already been stated the OP had the opportunity and took it of road testing the vehicle and didn't notice any fault. The listing also gave the opportunity of having an RAC vehicle check carried out and it appears that the OP decided not to bother. Therefore it is most definitely a case of buyer beware.

 

Honestly, what do people expect for £1100 and a 12 year old vehicle?

[JonCris]

BW they all seem to forget Caveat venditor & as for "he may not have driven it so wouldn't have known of the fault" gimme peace

 

& if it's 'hobby' or not if he's selling cars on a regular basis then he is a trader - period - even if he doesn't think he is the tax-man will

 

As has previously been suggested tell him he's obviously a trader of sorts & that you want your money back otherwise...............

[rps1969]

I think we are all missing the point here somewhat with the arguing of simple facts.

 

With courts nothing is fact until proven beyond reasonable doubt, so it does not matter what is said in this forum.

 

More importantly, the Burden of proof lies with the Claimaint in this instance and this may mean getting an independant report with additional costs, and there is a big chance the Small Claims Court will not let you add this cost to your claim unless it is a direction of the Court beforehand. (this is the way Small Cliams work)

 

Added to this you have to prove he is a trader and all the other gumf. he could simply come out with excuses that he was selling it for someone else. If something like this happens, and it does, then you only have the description to go on as he will be a private seller.

 

PLEASE TAKE NOTE: IT WILL NOT MATTER IF THE CAR BROKE DOWN 4 MILES UP THE ROAD IF HE IS A PRIVATE SELLER, HE COULD SAY HE WAS NOT AWARE OF ANY ISSUES AND THAT WOULD BE GOOD ENOUGH. PROVIDING HE DID NOT STATE SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT TRUE IN THE DESCRIPTION THEN THERE IS NOT MUCH YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. FACT

 

You have a choice really. Take it to court and prove beyond doubt what you are saying is correct, or, take it on the chin and forget about it.

 

Personally I know what I would do ? Take it on the chin.

 

All proberly not what you want to hear really but these are the factS of the matter.

[buzby]

So you're saying the advice given to OP by Trading Standards is wrong and that you know consumer law better than them?

 

Wow.

 

No - I'm saying you need a new pair of glasses and should read what is actually posted, before responding with an inappropriate and innacurate reply. But it's not the first and most likely won't be the last. Which bit of "Nothing in the TS statement differs from my view" don't you understand?