me verses natwest.. cca response help please

[supasta1]

hey all, I cca'd natwest on behalf of my fiancee about 2 months ago, today i have had this response:-

 

Dear Miss Curry

Re:Request for copy, credit agreement under section 77 of the consumer credit act 1974.

 

I refer to your correspondence dated 6 september 2007 (only wrote on the 18th feb??) regarding the above act.

 

Please find enclosed a "true copy" of your credit agreement as requested and a schedule of arrears.

 

When responding to requests made under section 77, the bank may provide you with a "true copy" of your agreement in accordance with regulation 3(1) of the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983 (the "regulations"). This means that under section 77, there is no obligation for the bank to provide you with a copy of the original agreement bearing your signature. A "true copy" does not need to contain any personal information relating to you as the debtor (including your name and address - although we often include this for your conveniance) nor does it need to include a signature box, any signature or dates of signature.

 

i trust this explains the banks obligations under section 77 and is of assistance to you.

 

yours sincerely........

 

 

attached to the back of this letter is a freshly typed credit agreement showing what the agreement should of looked like with no signature's etc.

 

Is this a typical response?? where do i stand now? can someone please assist me in a response to this letter as i'm confused as to what to do next. All help extremely apprieciated, thanks..

[Vampyra]

Any chance you can scan it in or take a photo and add it.

 

Sounds dodgey but we need to see it.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Standard letter.

 

Was it signed miss Bennitt

 

HAK

[supasta1]

won't be able to scan it untill monday when i go back to work. it's signed recovery manager, there is no name on it. as for the credit agreement, it's got everything it should have on it i think, except for signatures or even any where to put a signature, it looks like an example they have just printed off. i dare say the signed copy has been cucked away as it's about 6 years old or so.. hope that helps some more for now.

[supasta1]

can someone please comment about the bit in the letter that states that they dont have to send the signed copy of your original credit agreement?? surely you need to be able to see the actual signed copy to be able to know if you have a case or not, is this true?? i thought in the cca request it states they must send you the SIGNED copy? can someone give me their views on this?? please.... im just really stressed out, thanks.

[42man]

They can cover up their signatures, but they MUST send you a copy of the ORIGINAL and it must be PROPERLY executed (i.e.signed by both parties)....and bear in mind if it ever got to court they would HAVE to produce the original !! relax, scan it and post it up here (minus your personal details) on Monday....

[42man]

these are the regulations...what is the debt for by the way ?

 

Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations

1983 (SI 1983/1569)

2 Prescribed period

The period of 12 working days is hereby prescribed for the purposes of each provision of the Act specified in Column 1

of the Schedule to these Regulations relating to the duty indicated in Column 2 in relation to regulated agreements

 

 

SCHEDULE

SECTIONS OF THE ACT IN RESPECT OF WHICH A PERIOD OF 12 WORKING DAYS IS PRESCRIBED RELATING TO DUTIES IN

RELATION TO REGULATED AGREEMENTS

Regulation 2

Section of the

Act

Duty

(1) (2)

77(1) Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement.

78(1) Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.

79(1) Duty to give information to hirer under consumer hire agreement.

and section 78 for running credit

 

 

78.

Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.

— (1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [F1 £1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a)

 

[supasta1]

it was a loan of £5000 for a car but natwest have messed us about so much with charges etc.. and closed my account down without any reason leaving me with unpaid bills etc because i hadn't been informed... absolute joke they are!!! they have made my life hell for years!! i will scan on monday thanks for replying

[paulwlton]

hey all, I cca'd NatWest on behalf of my fiancee about 2 months ago, today i have had this response:-

 

Dear Miss Curry

Re:Request for copy, credit agreement under section 77 of the consumer credit act 1974.

 

I refer to your correspondence dated 6 september 2007 (only wrote on the 18th feb??) regarding the above act.

 

Please find enclosed a "true copy" of your credit agreement as requested and a schedule of arrears.

 

When responding to requests made under section 77, the bank may provide you with a "true copy" of your agreement in accordance with regulation 3(1) of the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983 (the "regulations"). This means that under section 77, there is no obligation for the bank to provide you with a copy of the original agreement bearing your signature. A "true copy" does not need to contain any personal information relating to you as the debtor (including your name and address - although we often include this for your conveniance) nor does it need to include a signature box, any signature or dates of signature.

 

i trust this explains the banks obligations under section 77 and is of assistance to you.

 

yours sincerely........

 

 

attached to the back of this letter is a freshly typed credit agreement showing what the agreement should of looked like with no signature's etc.

 

Is this a typical response?? where do i stand now? can someone please assist me in a response to this letter as i'm confused as to what to do next. All help extremely apprieciated, thanks..

 

The OFT have interpreted the Act in a way which favors the finance industry (surprise). If the bank has lost the original he may recreate one from its banking records, as long as the information in the recreation exactly matches the original.

 

Does the agreement contain your name and address?

 

Don't worry i've a nice letter to for you to send back.

 

Paul

[supasta1]

The OFT have interpreted the Act in a way which favors the finance industry (surprise). If the bank has lost the original he may recreate one from its banking records, as long as the information in the recreation exactly matches the original.

 

Does the agreement contain your name and address?

 

Don't worry i've a nice letter to for you to send back.

 

Paul

 

From all the threads i have read on this site about this topic i was under the impression that if they have no signed credit agreement then there is no agreement?? is that not entirely the case then? im confused...

[supasta1]

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk29/supasta2/agreementnatwest.jpg

 

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk29/supasta2/letternatwest.jpg

 

can someone please have a look at these and advice accordingly.. the quality isnt the best, how can you improve as im a bit stupid lol..

 

thanks

[supasta1]

hey, has any one been able to have a look at the letter and credit agreement yet, im just getting concerned as i've had the debt collectors on the phone again, should i start paying them or send them another letter telling them id like some proof that they have a signed agreement?? some one please reply.. thankyou

[paulwlton]

hey, has any one been able to have a look at the letter and credit agreement yet, im just getting concerned as i've had the debt collectors on the phone again, should i start paying them or send them another letter telling them id like some proof that they have a signed agreement?? some one please reply.. thankyou

 

Don't pay another penny until they provide you with an agreement bearing your signature. Also if your address isn't included in the agreement they are breaking the law.

 

Was the insurance optional?

 

Paul

[supasta1]

i can't remeber now about the insurance. have u still got that letter u said would be good to reply with?? cheers paul....

 

i had an idea last night but not sure if it would work. i was tempted to write to natwest saying basically although i dont acknowledge any debt to you as i am looking at fixing my credit file quickly i would be willing to cease my claim for unlawful bank charges if they clear all of the outstanding money they believe we owe?? our claim for bank charges are around £3000 and they claim we still owe them around £5000 or would that be letting them off to lightly?? any ideas anyone??

[paulwlton]

i can't remeber now about the insurance. have u still got that letter u said would be good to reply with?? cheers paul....

 

i had an idea last night but not sure if it would work. i was tempted to write to NatWest saying basically although i dont acknowledge any debt to you as i am looking at fixing my credit file quickly i would be willing to cease my claim for unlawful bank charges if they clear all of the outstanding money they believe we owe?? our claim for bank charges are around £3000 and they claim we still owe them around £5000 or would that be letting them off to lightly?? any ideas anyone??

 

Can you scan and post the reverse side. If it doesn't state that the insurance was optional then in any case, the agreement imo, would be unenforceable.

[supasta1]

i will have to scan later tonight as i have'nt got the forms with me if thatys ok. what did u think about my idea??

[paulwlton]

i will have to scan later tonight as i have'nt got the forms with me if thatys ok. what did u think about my idea??

 

I personally would always go for the jugular. But it's your decision, and it may be wise in your circumstances to try and reach a settlement. The banks have an habit of upsetting credit files.

 

PW

[supasta1]

so i would'nt be shooting myself in the foot doing that, im just concerned that they would take something like that as accepting liability thats all...

chances are they would tell me to do one anyway, they are tw@ts like that lol. i'l scan the other sheet as soon as pos for u to look at. cheers for your help

[supasta1]

Can you scan and post the reverse side. If it doesn't state that the insurance was optional then in any case, the agreement imo, would be unenforceable.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk29/supasta2/letter.jpg

 

This is the only other thing that came with the agreement, does this mean the ppi is dodgy then or not?? if you cant make out the writing does anyone know how to improve the copy?? this wasnt on the back of the agreement either it was a seperate sheet, not sure if that makes a difference.

[paulwlton]

Even if the agreement contained your sig it would be unenforceable because the insurance was a condition of the loan and wasn't optional.

 

If the insurance is optional it can be included in the total amount of credit, if it a condition of the loan it cannot, therefore, the credit is incorrect, as this is a prescribed term then they're screwed.

 

Hopefully a big hitter will come along and confirm.

 

 

 

PW

[supasta1]

i think i'l hit them with a letter basically saying that due to the lack of a signed credit agreement and miss sold ppi that the claimed debt is unenforceable. i will give them two options, i will no longer pay any money back to them for this debt and seek to recover money for the ppi and continue my unlawful bank charges claim or they can scrap this debt from my records and i'l scrap my claims and any future claims against them. I think that is very fair, just unsure how best to word it, not very good with letters. does everyone think this is the best way to take this, all input very welcome.

 

cheers pw..

 

any ideas toward the wording of the letter would be much appreciated too lol. thanks

[paulwlton]

If the agreement doesn't contain your signature, then how can the bank be certain you entered into this agreement. RBS/ NatWest may have incorrect records in your name.

 

Check out the link.

 

How trustworthy is your bank? | Money | The Guardian

[supasta1]

Thanks for that, a very interesting article. I dare say that the above article will be mentioned in my response, as i just can't trust what they say seen as though they've been caught making debts up!! oh it just gets deeper and deeper lol.. shocking really isnt it!!

[supasta1]

Here is a draft of the letter i was thinking of sending, i'm not very good with letters so could someone please read through it and give me their oppinions. please please......

 

Account In Dispute

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter dated 01 April 08, contents of which have been noted.

I fully understand the Banks obligations under section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act, and would thank you for reminding me of what the Bank can get away with sending as a “true copy” of the said Agreement.

Unfortunately I do not recognise any Debt to your Company and can not comply with any of your payment demands until I am satisfied that you do infact have a copy of the True Original SIGNED Credit Agreement you believe this so called Debt refers to.

In light of recent News articles of which refer to your Company (Royal Bank of Scotland), appearing to be making up agreements, loans etc, I find your word on this matter difficult to take so before I can take this further I will have to request to see the Original Signed Agreement, either by way of a photocopy or by going to my local branch. As you are fully aware, if this was to proceed to Court you would have to Produce the Original Signed Copy in order for the Judge to enforce it, otherwise this so called debt is unenforceable by law.

Although I do not recognise any debt to your company what so ever, I would be willing to reach a settlement with your selves as to bring this whole situation to a speedy close and repair my credit file. If you are prepared to clear ALL the so called debt you claim I owe your Company and remove all information you have about these so called debts with all credit reference agency’s, myself as a goodwill gesture will cease my claim AND my fiancé’s claim against you for unlawful bank charges, which amounts to around £3000 and I will not bring a claim against you for what appears to be an unlawful PLP for the loan you accuse me of having with yourselves, details of which I have with the documents you sent as part of my CCA request.

If I do not hear from yourselves within 14 days of receipt of this letter I will assume that you have accepted my offer of settlement. If you decide not to take my offer then I will be paying no more money to yourselves until I receive the original signed credit agreement with all of the prescribed terms AND I will continue with all my claims as mentioned above.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a signed credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

• You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  
• You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
  
• You may not pass the account to a third party.
  
• You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
  
• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours Faithfully

[supasta1]

anyone had chance to glance at the above letter yet?? i wanted to send it tomorrow that's all.. thanx