Halifax Credit Card CCA question

[fuzzybobble]

Got a Credit Card agreement from Halifax recently.

 

Things I've found wrong so far...

 

1, Signature & date from Halifax is missing from the agreement.

 

2, No credit limit is mentioned on the agreement. All it says is "We will decide your credit limit and tell you what it is."

 

3, Terms and conditions are current one and not ones from 2005

Whicn is when the agreement is dated.

 

4, On the first page with my address etc on it, it says "no repayment cover" but on the agreement my signature is there with a tick next to the payment protection bit.

On the T&C pages the payment protection signature and date area is blank.

 

 

How valid is this agreement so far and it it a required pescribed term to have a credit limit on the agreement for credit cards?

[fuzzybobble]

Can anyone help with this one?

[pt2537]

would really need a look at the agreement to give a real opinion

[fuzzybobble]

Having probs with scanner at the moment, so unable to scan the document.

 

Decided to delay them with a few things in the meantime.

 

Sent Halifax a letter pointing out there's no credit limit on the agreement and that it's also unsigned by Halifax, and the terms and conditions are not from the time of the agreement, due to the charges being £12 on the T&C's and £25 on the agreement itself. The agreement is dated June 2005 and the T&C's have a date code type thing at the end which says T37R AMAZON 0607 which to me means June 2007 which would be about right for the £12 charges change due to the OFT. Mentioned to them that it's fradulent to try and pass off later T&C's as part of the original agreement.

 

Also the 1st page of the agreement is what looks like a photocopy of a computer scanned archive and not a true copy of the original. The signature page is a better copy but bares no resembelence in layout to the first page. Also there's nothing to say page, 1 or page two, or anything to link the two documents together. The first page says o repayments cover, but the second page with the signatures on it the box is ticked for repayments cover and my signature is there, but slightly different to the other signature on the document.

Where as the T&C's are printed from what looks like a MS word and they added my name and address at the top of it. The T&C's have no date or connection to the agreement itself. The TC's also have a signature box for payment protection but it's blank and undated.

 

 

It should keep them off my back for a while anyway.

Will try borrow a scanner from someone and get it all scanned on here.

 

I also sent them a 3rd Harassment by phone letter.

They've been calling me since January dispite 2 letters in November and December saying "in writing only....Harrasment by phone etc."

So, I sent them copies of the letters + a list of 70+ calls with times and date on them. Mentioning that each time I would only deal with this account in writing. Also hilighting the two occasions where my personal info was discussed with another member f my household without doing security checks first.

I've demanded a full explaination as to why my requests have been ignored and why they are trying to collect on a disputed account.

I also requested an offer of compensation due to the stress and worry and problems their actions have had on me.

 

Should give them something to suck on for a while anyway.

I think they know they're chasing a dead duck by now, as they only call me. The last letter demanding moneyfrom them was 10th December apart from the dodgy cca which they sent on 19th Feb.

Haven't paid them a penny since November

[babybear39]

Discussing your personal information with a third party is a serious breach of the data protection act.

 

From what you describe, they've sent you a copy of an application. The T&C's should also be the original ones.

 

All sounds very dodgy, but without seeing it difficult to comment conclusively

[fuzzybobble]

Ok, managed to scrounge the use of a neighbours scanner.

 

Here's the two pages of the agreement + some of the T&C's

Didn't scan all the T&C's just the relavant parts to show

they're not the originals.

 

I've included links to the full size files, in case anyone has

any problems reading the copies on the thread.

 

 

1st page of the agreement.............

Link to full size file

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/fuzzybobble/halifaxagreement1.jpg

 

Second page of Agreement

Link to full size file

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/fuzzybobble/halifaxagreement2.jpg

 

 

First page of the Terms and Conditions

 

 

Second page of Terms and Conditions

 

 

Third page of Terms and Conditions

 

 

Fourth page of Terms and Conditions

 

 

 

I've put rings around the bits that show the differing dates between the T&C's and the agreement itself. + the differences between the charges in the agreement and the T&C's and also the fact that the option for card protection thingie is blank in the T&C's.

 

I'm hoping to poke some holes in this one, as I hate Halifax with a passion, due to their constant phone calls, even though they've now had 3 letters saying not to phone me.

[babybear39]

Looks like a botched together job, but I'm no expert...

 

One will be along shortly, or I'll bump the thread

[fuzzybobble]

looks botched to me too, as page one and two that make up the agreement look different and T&C's are 2 years apart + the bits about

card protection doesn't add up as the T&C's bit are blank

and the agreement has it listed + the sigs on page 2

of the agreement have a few differences too.

I won't mention the lack of sigs from Halifax lol.

I can't see anything that links the two pages of the agreement either.

[gymfreak1978]

seems quite common for DCAs to add the current terms and conditions with an unenforceable application form, the idea is to fool you into thinking its enforceable CCA.

[paulwlton]

Until they supply an agreement which contains your signature they can whistle.

 

PW

[fuzzybobble]

My Signature is on page 2, but Halifax haven't signed it.

 

Already sent them a letter Mentioning the facts found so far.

Also mention that I was seeking legal advice that trying to

pass off current T&C's as the ones that were with the

agreement at the time of signing could be fraudulent.

And the fact there's nothing to tie the 3 documents to

each other. No page numbers or anything. The 3 documents

look like they're from a 1 bad photocopy, 1 computer scanned

and printed copy. + T&C's that's had my name and address added

before being printed off MS Word or simalar.

 

I think they know something is wrong, as they've not

sent any threat-o-grams for ages, just 3 calls a day

dispite 3 harassment letters being sent since November.

Even they seem to have dried, up has they haven't called

at all this weekend.

[Curlyben]

Hmmm interesting.

well the T&C are meaningless as they are obviously the current ones so don't relate to this agreement.

As for the agreement, it DOES appear that the prescribed terms are present along with the required signatures.

 

Now admittedly there doesn't appear to be any mention of cancellation rights.

 

So all in all I'd say this is perfectly enforceable via court action.

[fuzzybobble]

Thanks for the advice.

I think I'll see if they dare go the court route.

After all, no point in making things easy for them.

Got a gut feeling they won't risk it though.

[rippedoffagain]

This was signed by you 2/6/05? They were being very generous with their penalty charges then. Was the £12 a special deal just for you? This is IMHO very serious, if that is your sig on page 2, then they have substituted the second page. Dare I say that skating on thin ice is an understatement?

 

Edit I didn't see the £25 penalties on the sig page. This is just the same as my position except no prescribed terms on my sig doc.

[rippedoffagain]

The above agreement is very similar to mine. This throws a light on why amazon is mentioned at the end. I thought some Halifax employee had bought a book or something.

[fuzzybobble]

Quick update on this one.

 

Sent Halifax Harassment by phone/formal complaint letter, listing over 70 phone calls from them, dispite sending 2 Do not call me, letters. Also I asked for an explaination to why this had happened + why one of their call centre monkeys discussed personal information with another member of my household without any security checks first (date and time included in the letter) Also asked for compensation for the stress and trouble it caused me.

Did the threats of trading standards, etc if they fail to resolve this complaint.

 

3 days later the account gets passed to Blair, Oliver, & Scott.

who are demanding payment in full, so

Just sent them a bog off letter saying this account is in dispute

as Halifax have failed to provide a proper agreement+ T&C's.

Pointed out they shouldn't be trying to seek payment on a

disputed account.

 

So will wait to see what computer generated threats

they send me next.

[babybear39]

Plenty I expect, but don't worry, it's all they're good at

 

Have a great Easter

[davey77]

Any updates on this one FB?

[fuzzybobble]

Not too much to report. I questioned the validity of the agreement to Halifax, raised a formal complaint about 70 calls, adding interest and charges to an account in dispute, and questioned the CCA agreement as it was a bodged job from different documents that didn't relate to each other.

 

Then the account gets passed to Moorcroft before Halifax had delt with my formal complaint. Halifax's feeble excuses in answer to my complaint arrived about 2 weeks later.

 

So I copied all the evidence and reported both them and Moorcroft to Trading Standards. Still waiting for the outcome, but believe it or not but Moorcroft carried on demanding payment for me, until I sent them copies of my complaints and threatened them with legal action for harassment.

 

Since then all has been quiet for 7 weeks now. In 7 days time Moorcroft get another complaint as they haven't answered my complaint and they have 8 weeks to do so. Then I'm insisting that Trading Standards do something about Moorcroft's unlawful actions under the new Unfair Trading Regulations that came into force in May this year.

 

Watch this space.

[davey77]

I've found Moorcroft to be stubborn but not aggressive (so far.)

 

Good luck getting TS interested. Depends how lucky you are and what area but here in Devon (after 15 months) they are still ignoring my complaints.

I was told today though that as at 5pm last Friday a named officer of the local trading standards MUST investigate any complaint involving the CCA. It is is written into the 2008 Act and it is retrospective. That's what I have heard but but can't find the legislation about it yet.

 

 

I'll watch your space!

[fuzzybobble]

babybear is the one to ask bout the new unfair trading regs 2008. She's realy done her homework on it and come up with some great info.

 

Read this thread........

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/147392-cca-dcas-unfair-commercial.html

 

With my Argos account it took me 6 months to get them to admit they have no CCA.

All I have to do now is wait for Frederickson International to pass it onto Bryan Carter and file a court claim on me. Then produce the no CCA letters from Moorcroft and Argos and watch him discontinue the claim. I already have my wasted costs order almost complete. And picked out a nice radio controlled helicopter and a CAG donation to spend my winnings on. :grin::grin::grin:

[vixx]

Hi, i have been reading your request for your cca with Halifax, just wondering the out come, i began mine with the Halifax 2 months ago and by God they are now making my life hell, letters, phone calls even text messages, they are brutal!!

[joemay]

Yes Fuzzy have there been any further developments. OH has rec'd signed "Application Form" no prescribed terms, and current T&Cs. Account is already with BOS so expecting hassle soon:mad: