Its Not A Crime! - BR 28 Feb

[sisternumber1]

I have just been reading through mu thread from when I started to help my daughter way back in November. whatever happened to the idea of cutomer service, where you wrote a letter and got a reply to the letter that you wrote. I have stacks of letters now from both Barclaycard and MBNA, hardly any of which address any of the questions raised in the letters from us, no wonder they need all thos excessive fees, they ar needed to churn out meaningless and complicated correspondence to drive all their poor victims mad.

 

And what ever happened to the concept of responsible lending? I remember this being bandied about in the mists of time. I am old enough to remember when having a bank account with a cheque book was a badge of honour, long before the advent of the cheque guarantee card, so I suppose I remember a time before credit cards. Also remember when most people got paid cash, I was a wages clerk in one of my first jobs a I worked my way up the ladder to becoming a bookkeeper.

 

Never thought that I would be counselling and helping my daughter become bankrupt. Still no word from the OR, I will do what I can, no doubt it will all become clear over the next week what must be done, must make a checklist, andy one with any experience as to what needs doing let me know.

 

What exactly does the OR do?

[fermi]

What exactly does the OR do?

 

What a question! :o

 

Link: About The Insolvency Service gives you an idea if you really want to know.

 

Has she spoken to anyone from the OR's Office at all yet?

 

Often there will be a brief 5 min phone call at court or later to discuss any urgent matters.

 

If absolutely nothing has been heard from them, then a polite call to the OR might be an idea.

[noomill060]

Think 'bout you and your daughter, sister

[noomill060]

The OR (Official Reciever) takes control of your daughter's money and material assets and decides what your daughter will be allowed to keep and what will be sold off to pay your daughter's debts.

 

All money due to your daughter will have to be paid direct to the OR and the OR decides how much the creditors will get.

[fermi]

All money due to your daughter will have to be paid direct to the OR and the OR decides how much the creditors will get.

 

If you mean benefits/wages etc; then it doesn't work like that normally.

 

If you can get an account you are permitted to run one as normal, having benefits/wages paid into there and meeting domestic bills/payments as usual.

 

Should any funds accumulate that are not required for your "reasonable domestic needs" then you have to declare this, but the OR does not even normally monitor accounts.

 

An awful lot is taken on trust, and in this case the intervention from the OR is likely to be very minimal.

 

What Will Happen to my Bank Account

 

Can I open a new bank account?

 

After the bankruptcy order, you may open a new bank or building society account, but you should tell them that you are bankrupt. It is for the bank or building society to decide whether they will let you operate a bank account, and they may impose conditions and limits. You should not get any overdraft or credit facilities without informing the bank or building society that you are bankrupt. You must not write cheques that are likely to ‘bounce’ (be dishonoured).

As a bankrupt you might find it difficult to open a new bank or building society account. Some banks may allow you to keep using your existing bank account after they have contacted the official receiver. If not, you may wish to apply for a 'basic bank account'. Information on which banks offer basic bank accounts to bankrupts may be found on the Financial Services Authority website at http://www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk/pdfs/bank_accounts.pdf The Citizens' Advice Bureau also has information on basic bank accounts at Basic bank accounts.

 

If your income only consists of benefit payments, state pensions and/or tax credit payments you may wish to open The Post Office card account. This is a very simple account that cannot be used to receive any other payments such as Housing Benefit, occupational pension benefits or wages. The account allows you to withdraw cash free of charge at any Post Office branch. This account may suit you if you want a simple account that will not let you go overdrawn or incur any charges. No credit checks will be carried out when you open this account. Further details can be found at www.postoffice.co.uk

 

Do I need to tell the official receiver or trustee about my new bank account?

You do not need to tell your official receiver or trustee about any new bank account opened after the date of the bankruptcy order unless you are asked for that information. You do need to tell the official receiver or trustee about any money in the account that is more than you need for reasonable living expenses. The official receiver or trustee can claim the surplus amounts, via an income payments order (IPO) or an income payments agreement (IPA), to pay your creditors. Your trustee may apply to court for an IPO, which requires you to make contributions towards the bankruptcy debts from your income. The court will not make an IPO if it would leave you without enough income to meet the reasonable domestic needs of you and your family. Or you may enter into a written agreement with your trustee, called an IPA, to pay a certain amount of your income to the trustee for an agreed period. IPOs and IPAs continue for a maximum of 3 years from the date the order is made by the court or the date of the written agreement. If you fail to cooperate, the trustee may intervene in the bank account.

[sisternumber1]

Thanks Fermi - I thought that I had read all of that - but obviously not sunk in. So will go open an account ASAP so that Housing benefit can be paid in, also now know who else needs to be told that she is bankrupt. Everything that I had read seemed to say do nothing until the OR has been in touch, but it seems that we can do a lot - any suggestions for an account that can be used online that a bankrupt may open, she does have to have an account where SO and DD can be set up.

 

Yes I thought that I knew what the OR did - but I thought we could not do anything further until OR got in touch with daughter first.

[fermi]

The only two reliable accounts for a bankrupt are the "Co-op Cashminder" or the "Barclays Cashcard" accounts. Plus of course the Post Office Card Account for benefits only.

 

See: Bank accounts for Bankrupts

 

While the Barclays account offers DD's/SO's, it doesn't do internet banking.

 

Most other (even basic) accounts are likely to be refused, although there have been a few people who have been lucky elsewhere.

 

Surprisingly enough, some people who have owed substantial sums to the Co-op/Barclays have even been successful in opening a basic account with them. At least in theory the bank should not be entitled to exercise a right of "set off" with respect to a bankruptcy debt, but it would be best to get independent confirmation of this through the OR should you be forced to take out an account with a former lender.

[sisternumber1]

The only two reliable accounts for a bankrupt are the "Co-op Cashminder" or the "Barclays Cashcard" accounts. Plus of course the Post Office Card Account for benefits only.

 

See: Bank accounts for Bankrupts

 

While the Barclays account offers DD's/SO's, it doesn't do internet banking.

 

Most other (even basic) accounts are likely to be refused, although there have been a few people who have been lucky elsewhere.

 

Surprisingly enough, some people who have owed substantial sums to the Co-op/Barclays have even been successful in opening a basic account with them. At least in theory the bank should not be entitled to exercise a right of "set off" with respect to a bankruptcy debt, but it would be best to get independent confirmation of this through the OR should you be forced to take out an account with a former lender.

 

 

her main debt which she had never defaulted on was with Barclays bank, she had been a customer since she was 14, and we do not have a co-op bank in this town, this makes life extremely difficult as my daughter cannot travel except if some one takes her, and three days a week are always unavailable because of dialysis. OK may have to speak to Barclays after speaking to the OR.

 

We do have an alternative and that she puts all her DD through an account that I have that is barely used and have just enough of her money going in to cover said dd and SO, however the housing benefits people through a wobbly when I suggested that, they say her HB has to go into a bank with her name on it, and as her landlords agent will not consider her HB going direct to them we have a bit of a problem, there is 4 weeks HB sitting on hold at the moment waiting for a home:mad:

[sisternumber1]

whoops just read that co-op one is an online one - seems we will have to apply for that - so off I go

[fermi]

Big pain about the HB.

 

The Co-op account can be opened over the phone (but might need to do ID checks), plus you can pay in cash/cheques and withdraw cash at Post Offices like most 'basic' accounts. So it may not be as restrictive as you think for her.

 

EDIT: Yep. And it has online banking and a Visa/Electron debit card as well.

[sisternumber1]

well the faxed bankruptcy notices have resulted in a flurry of letters and telephone calls from Barclaycard and Mercers, Barclaycard just saying that they are looking into our complaint!!!! Mercers to say that my daughter has 7 days to come up with the full balance or legal proceedings and or bailiffs will be instructed, etc will be started - this would be interesting wouldnt it? considering that she has been declared bankrupt. The telphone call from Mercers said that Bankruptcy will not absolve her from paying what she owes.

 

Whats more interesting I have a letter from last week saying that Barclaycard had sent the account to their fraud department. So why are they still chasing?

 

Is there any point in sending all the latest stuff to join the files that I have sent to Trading Standards, the FOS and OFT? It seems to me these organisations are so large that one hand doenst know what the other is doing, which is why it is so difficult to get any sort of closure.

[Hopeful1]

Hi Sisternumber1. I would certainly add the latest letters to your complaints. The behaviour of these large institutions is shocking and the authorities need to be made aware. I like to think that if enough of us keep complaining, eventually some notice will be taken.

 

You have made a lot of progress since i last posted. I hope you can get these final details sorted out so that you and your daughter can focus on matters that are important to you.

 

I greatly admire the time and effort you have put into dealing with this huge, complicated situation for your daughter.

 

Best wishes

[fermi]

The telphone call from Mercers said that Bankruptcy will not absolve her from paying what she owes.

 

Oh yes it will! That's the point.

 

Oh well, I wouldn't expect Mercers to acknowledge the truth under any other circumstances, so why should it be any different with bankruptcy?

 

I would include everything in your complaints. You may as well.

 

Agree with Hopeful1; the way you've dealt with all this does you an amazing amount of credit.

[The GodMother]

Hi sister.

 

Sorry l have been a bit busy over the last couple of days, My son was not well.

 

The bankruptcy seems to have gone well for you. You could set up a post office account but that would not have any facilitys like Internet banking so l would not bother unless needed.

 

Mercers are idiots as we all know. they would be dangerous if they new the law.

 

If you dont hear from the OR by the end of the day l would call the courts on Monday and find out what is going on.

 

Chrissi

[tomterm8]

well the faxed bankruptcy notices have resulted in a flurry of letters and telephone calls from Barclaycard and Mercers, Barclaycard just saying that they are looking into our complaint!!!! Mercers to say that my daughter has 7 days to come up with the full balance or legal proceedings and or bailiffs will be instructed, etc will be started - this would be interesting wouldnt it? considering that she has been declared bankrupt. The telphone call from Mercers said that Bankruptcy will not absolve her from paying what she owes.

 

Whats more interesting I have a letter from last week saying that Barclaycard had sent the account to their fraud department. So why are they still chasing?

 

Is there any point in sending all the latest stuff to join the files that I have sent to Trading Standards, the FOS and OFT? It seems to me these organisations are so large that one hand doenst know what the other is doing, which is why it is so difficult to get any sort of closure.

 

Yes, and ALSO contact the official reciever. What they are doing (asking for preferential treatment) is now, quite simply, illegal. The OR has the powers to squash them like vermin.

[fermi]

Yes, and ALSO contact the official reciever. What they are doing (asking for preferential treatment) is now, quite simply, illegal. The OR has the powers to squash them like vermin.

 

I love that image. I wish they did. Normally the most they will do is bend a few ears, but even the banks take notice of that from the OR!

 

As suggested, it's best to make sure on Monday that the OR has received the paperwork from the court.

 

It may be just that things are caught up in admin since most offices are snowed under at the moment, but the fact that you haven't had the first brief call from the OR to discuss anything urgent (including threats by creditors) makes me wonder slightly.

[noomill060]

Just make copies of the letters, then send the crap direct to the Official Receiver.

[The GodMother]

Noomill that is a good idea but how will she no where to send it if the OR has not got back to her?

 

I am assuming a lot of paperwork went with the bankruptcy forms so she would need to sort out the OR first before that.

[fermi]

Noomill that is a good idea but how will she no where to send it if the OR has not got back to her?

 

The address of the Official Receiver's office covering that court are normally printed on the bottom of the bankruptcy order.

 

EDIT: But yes, there's not much point sending anything until they have spoken to the OR/case examiner.

[The GodMother]

oh rite.

 

well maybe a phone call to the courts or the OR office on monday would be an idea if they have not recieved anything then i would ask what they want you to do.

[fermi]

oh rite.

 

well maybe a phone call to the courts or the OR office on monday would be an idea if they have not recieved anything then i would ask what they want you to do.

 

Yep.

 

Probably best to try the OR first. They will know if they've had the paperwork through from the court. If they haven't, then they will probably chase it up themselves.

[surprise]

Try the Halifax, or Co-op. Halifax do a cashcard account with no cheques,gives you the facility of banking on line, you can also set up d/d's and you get a Visa Electron Card. The Co-op I think is a Solo Card.

[fermi]

Halifax are not really an option until you are discharged from the bankruptcy.

 

Just recently I've seen them close the "basic" accounts of several people who went bankrupt, and refuse accounts to people who are newly bankrupt.

 

They will even close children's savings accounts if a bankrupt is associated with the account.

 

Co-op is a Visa/Electron.

 

The FSA booklet on basic accounts is useful, but shows that most accounts will be refused.

 

http://www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk/pdfs/bank_accounts.pdf

 

And they are right.

[morteee]

Natwest gave my ex-husband a basic bank account while he was bankrupt so they might be worth a try

[fermi]

NatWest gave my ex-husband a basic bank account while he was bankrupt so they might be worth a try

 

Everywhere is worth a go. People sometimes get lucky, even at places that most others are refused.

 

But Natwest are refusing nearly all undischarged bankrupts at the moment as well.

 

:o I must sound all "doom and gloom" here , but it's not meant like that.

 

Under the current climate it's just a pain in the *** trying to get even a basic account as a BR.