Incapacity benefit/income support

[patrickq1]

you are also aloud a witness who can also speak on your behalf if you do feel pressure from answering questions and are afraid of confrontation then you tell them you are allowing your partner or witness to be their and they will be able to answer some questions you find difficult and also if you have memory lapses then this is another reason for your witness to attend,if the witness is told not to interfere then as long as the witness does not interfere with the medical part then they cannot ask your witness to refrain from answering any questions,i was and still do suffer memory lapses short time memory had i known when they told my wife to shut up then the examination would have been terminated their and then and a formal complaint into the attitude of the emp would have been one of my first actions...ggggrrrr i wish i knew then what i know now

patrickq1

[loan_ranger]

Interesting posts regarding the "All Work Test" results being altered (downwards) by Staff employed by "Atos Origin" (the privately owned Company which administers the test for the DWP).

"Almost 80,000 sick and disabled people a year are being wrongly denied benefits, according to a BBC investigation for Radio Five Live." Source: BBC NEWS | Programmes | Errors block benefits to disabled (20/05/2006)

[helenm1984]

Hi,

Just an update to you all, I am now going for the all work test, the dwp who were holding my job open have now terminated me, i had a medical with the dwp occupational heath advisor who has said I am unfit for work! but now I have to see another dwp doctor, so it'll be interesting to see what they say? but I have just been involved in a car crash yesterday and dislocated my hip and did my knee in again, so I dunno, its one thing after another, and to top it off just had another creditor take me to court with a ccj, here we go again!

[patrickq1]

i would nt mention the new disabilities just to see what they have to write down and ask for a copy if they say they cannot give you a copy do not sign his copy and photocopy it on your scanner.....that ll put the cat amongst the pigeons

[loan_ranger]

Please Helen, do keep us all posted regarding your forthcoming "All Work Test". Although it seems incongruous that the employer's assessment and then Atos Origin's may diverge considerably (even though both examinations are conducted by Doctors' employed by the same DWP), I expect this may happen because impossible inconsistencies arise;

e.g. (from BBC link above) "in the case of 11-year-old identical twins with autism, one had her Disability Living Allowance uprated while her sister - who has exactly the same level of disability - was turned down. When this was pointed out to the DWP, the twin who had initially received the increase had it withdrawn.

The twins' mother took the case to appeal and both children now receive the higher rate."

 

BTW (if memory serves) something like 46% of IB (all work test) appeals are overturned in favour of the claimant. (IB and DLA are subject to the same test c/o Atos.)

 

Incidentally, under last year's "Welfare Reform Bill" they'll be calling the "All Work Test" the "Personal Capability Assessment" (PCA) and "Incapacity Benefit" will be replaced by the "Employment and Support Allowance", this taking effect on all new claims beginning in October 2008 and renewed claims at sometime in the future as yet to decided. This is all part of the New Labour® pledge to remove 1 million people from IB, sort of like USA style "Welfare to Work". The Government ethos is that of looking at "enabling the client" (another spin-doctor phrase) i.e. ability to work instead of disability, this supposedly being backed-up by appointing everyone a personal (Jobcentre Plus appointed) adviser to help them overcome obstacles such as might inhibit them from returning to work.

Evidently there are people fraudulently exploiting IB because it pays more than JSA without the hassle of seeking a job, e.g Barrow-in-Furness where IB claims almost outnumber JSA claims. Unfortunately valid IB claimants are being tarred with the same brush and Atos have incentives to refuse as many claims as they can. Strike me down to suggest that this is just a Government cost cutting measure, lol.

 

Did I get this right, you've had how many "all work tests", that's tantamount to harassment, or was it 'back to work' interviews?, there's a difference. You said in a question " 2) Do I have to keep doing these all works tests? at the moment 1 a month as its starting to make me ill"

Could it be that you're being bounced between IB and JSA (or IS) at the whim of Jobcentre Plus?. Please give details because it's enough to make anyone ill, and sounds a good case to take to Court.

My private email can be found on my website at crisis loan or crisis loan - Contact

[patrickq1]

hi loan ranger you got it right 5 all works tests, since 2003,harrassment you would nt beleive what happened,hence they have lost all data concerning the all works tests reports from the doctor who did the tests,if you can imagine i have one hearing aid...it works but is at the wrong frequency now after 11 months i need a new more powerfull one at a different frequency,but the DWP DOC found i have perfectly good hearing because he whispered to me from less than one metere and i heard him perfectly...lol born deaf in right ear and heredatry genetic fault going deaf in left ear down to less than 25%,if he whispered with a megaphone i would probably hear him..lol i see the funny side of it now but my anger at this report meant me getting an advisor to come to see me evolved into a threatening match for being a bunch of ****** liars...thats what i called the assistant manager..this was in 2004,i then received calls to attend another AWT some month later to re asses my abilities to work...no muscle wastage looks perfectly fit ? this time he had a specialist report about my vascular problems as well as the fibromyalgia....they ignored that he felt i was not as ill as i could dress myself and could walk four or five meteres no dificulty in walking was his observation...i complained so they sent two DWP DOCTORS 2005 well you need nt geuss the rest it lasted two minits when i asked both to leave ,my wife opened the door and kicked them out she was blazin...reported violent temper made it impossible for them to carry out their observations but they were compentent enough to say they felt i was presumably fit for work because i was sitting prone watching tv...so it carried on two and fro letters complaints ...then beleive it or not a diferent DWP DOC came to visit 2006 this was for DLA thank god he found everything that i said was wrong with me as well as aknowledging the specialist surgeons report his comment s were i think this person is in desperate need of his forthcoming operation and he also discovered i had a heart problem,well he thoght it could be due to vascular disease and sugested i see a doctor,he asked me not to ask him about the other Doctors reports as he was for DLA he only worked part time due to his own disabilities...i was shocked but at least for the first time i had met someone who was completely honest and trustworthy even though i was slightly sceptical but his report to the dla was sufficient to get me middle rate ,as for the other docs i want to see them personally answer to their little scheme and concoctions fraudulent reporting hence it is with ice and the report is due anytime and even they are still awaiting atos doctors reports that have not arrived...also the ICO is awaiting their report but they dont tell you anything ecept to say they are awaiting a reply...so out of the blue i have the DWP management offering to discuss compensation as they say because mistakes were made..but i will not withdraw my complaints how can you compensate when the damage was done i had family and freinds thinking i was just throwin a sickie can you imagine what it was like being tarred as a malingerer i was even asking myself the same questions ..maybe it is me do i have a problen..i can tell you it was not comfortable for a long time,now i have had triple by pass surgery to my stomach and legs that still has nt completely been a success and due a heart by pass i am angry so much for the shame i was put through compensation they could not quantify the pain and shame they have put me through

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

as well as putting my wife through it as well and my two girls....so thankfully i have a lovin familly

thought i would mention that as they were my rock through all this

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

DWP - Resource centre - Policy and strategy publications - Guide to Financial Redress for Maladministration - Extra-statutory: Loss of statutory entitlement

[helenm1984]

Hi,

Another update! my old job at the job centre (dwp) phoned me today, with the results of the ocupational health advisor meeting I had about my fittness to work, or going back to work, they said I am not fit to work at the moment due to illness and also this would require me to take too much time off work for appts etc, also with my illness as it is I am at a high risk of needing a lot of days sick, thus they can no longer hold my position open, and if I want my job back I will have to reapply again when they are recruiting! I have included this in my ib form to incapacity, but what these idiots dont understand is they make and tell disabled or sick ppl to go back to work, you get a job then you have time off sick (8 days for the dwp) then you get put on disiplinary and treated like crap by the employer, thus resulting in more illnesses like depresion, then you get fired, this has happened 4 times to me now, and employers like the dwp doing this too what hope do we have? if I was go even start looking for a job I can bet you one of the questions I would be asked is 'y did you get fired?' reply I was sick, question how is your health now? answer not good question are you likely to need time off with this answer yes..... reply in post... thankyou for showing and intrest, but I am sorry to inform you you were unsucessful!

words can't expressed how appaled I am with this system.... equality and all that, it discrimination!

[patrickq1]

a ten minite rule bill was passed in parliment this week about disabilities and sickness at work,as far as i can see they have to keep your job open or offer alternative job or compensate you and also retrain you if you wish....i will find it tomorrow and see what it means you also have the discrimination act that will apply to you so you can always have them prosecuted and at the moment this is the best course of action have a look on the disability forums as you have more than likely got a case..

patrickq1

[helenm1984]

Hi, Thanks very much, I dont really know anything at the mo, work are treating it as a sickness even tho I shown them I am register'd disabled, all I've been told is that it is unecomnomical for them to keep my job open or let me go back to work, I look forward to any info you might be able to find out and I'll have a look through the other forums.

Thanks again.

[patrickq1]

Read our latest real-life stories and tips for small to medium sized employers. There's something for you, whatever sector you're in.

The Disability Discrimination Act applies to all employers and everyone who provides a service to the public, except the Armed Forces.

It is a law designed to end discrimination against disabled people. It also meets the needs of small to medium sized businesses because it is flexible enough to take account of your business's individual circumstances.

We know you are short on time, so this website concentrates on the most important things you have to know about the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA). It is intended as a quick guide and it is not an authoritative statement of the law.

It highlights your responsibilities and illustrates how easy it is to make changes that will benefit you and your business.

Go to our better business checklist for some suggested changes

[patrickq1]

The Disability Discrimination Act applies to all employers and everyone who provides a service to the public

so now you know they cannot just lay you off they must act also being in the public sector you have the union you must phone them asap and they will take your case ,in fact i imagine they would welcome your case just to kick some ones ass

patrickq1

hope this helps

DWP - About Us - The Disability Discrimination Act 2005

[patrickq1]

The New Provisions

The DDA 2005 introduces a duty on all public bodies to promote equality of

opportunity for disabled people. This means that they must take account of the needs

of disabled people as an integral part of their policies, practices and procedures, and

not as something separate or as a tag-on. They will have to have due regard to the

need to:

• eliminate unlawful discrimination and disability-related harassment;

• promote equality of opportunity and positive attitudes to disabled people;

and

• encourage disabled people to participate in public life.

These duties apply to anyone carrying out functions of a public nature. If a public

body was perceived as failing to comply with these duties then anyone, including the

DRC, could apply to the High Court for judicial review.

In addition to this, many public bodies, including Government departments and local

councils, will be subject to specific duties, which will include having to produce a

Disability Equality Scheme explaining how they intend to fulfil the duty to promote

equality. This will mean that public bodies will have to think through the implications

of the duty, and gather appropriate evidence to demonstrate the effectiveness of their

schemes. They will also need to demonstrate that disabled people have been

involved at the centre of planning their policies.

[patrickq1]

a simple phone call that under the disability act you do intend to prosecute unless they re instate your position....they sound as though they are trying to get away without paying you anything,,,gggrrr horrible people need cutting down a peg or two...remember when you do go back how some of us poor folk have to fight so now you are in a position or when you are back in your rightfull position to apply some decency and logic to help those who really need help

patrickq1

[loan_ranger]

Hi "alibobsy" where in the legislation can I find supporting evidence for your statement as follows?

Quote: "Your doctor could do an open ended "until further notice" sick note which would cover you until he signed a note stating "fit for work" end quote. And supposedly this is acceptable to DWP/JCP?

Dream on!

The I.T. (CMS 3) only allows for a sick-note commencement and termination date or else I've been misinformed, input fields requiring a full calender date.

[alibobsy]

The CMS system is the system in the job centre the actual processing system where you are paid from which is used in the processing centres is a different system. Yes thats right they put the initial claim info from the callcentre and the job centres on one system, then process things on a separate one. It is on the old legacy system (yes still based on the system which came in in 1988 lol). The CMS info is supposed to push all the information accross to the legacy system, but we usually only got a skeleton case or a partial push. All the cms info is run off on a printer and sent accross to processing to fill in the extra details on legacy. It was easier when we just got the original claim forms.

On the legacy system you can input a claim to incapacity benefit with an open end and it shows as until further notice on the system. However I haven't actually worked on IB for a number of years although whilst doing JSA sometimes we would have to look at a cust/partners IB claim to process the JSA and when I left in Sept we were still seeing until further notice claims. I couldn't tell you if any legislation supports this and it may well be whilst I have been on maternity leave there has been some kind of update and perhaps new guidence has gone out to doctors?

Just on a side note whilst I know most staff on the front line are just struggling along dealing with the rubbish ideas from above I think I probably agree about management. I know a middle manager at our office who asked a very senior manager at a national meeting about the fact we all think customer service has been "pushed aside, and practically ignored in the last couple of years" and she was told off the record that the message they were getting from above ie the government was in his words "customer service, whats that?". Another thing which galls for us is that we used to take pride in exceeding the targets and processing times, getting payments out quickly to people in need. Now the push (and lets face it these things always flow downwards) is to simply hit the targets and NO MORE otherwise you start getting work tranferred in from other offices accross the country. For a JSA claim the target is 12 working days to process. This is just to the point when any payments due are released so the payments could be another 3 working days after this! Meaning 3 weeks wait. Now I know you have to wait for your first signing on date before any money is due on jsa as it is paid in arrears only, but prior to the staff cuts in our office the vast majority of claims (around 98%) were processed and ready on the system so on the date of first signing the payment would release that day. Now that is rare. The bane of our lives in the recent "innovation" of the standard operating model where they try to reduce every claim to a set of steps and every office set up being the same accross th country. The trouble is this doesn't allow for local arrangements that help improve customer service or accuracy of payments etc. For example we have alpha splits accross the section where you process cetain names. This leads to accountability and a responsibility for each person on each split and customers used to be able to ring us direct. Under the SOM they set up a telephone team separate to us. Plus all the claims are supposed to be held centrally in date order and staff should pick them up as they go along. We also now have targets for how many claims you clear in a day. So human nature being what it is I am sure people would cherry pick the easier claims to do first. Noone would have direct responsibility for any particular claim and complex claims especially ones where we are awaiting further info I am sure would suffer. Our office has informally kept the alpha splits although each morning we had to ensure every split was up to the same claim date so no group of names was prioritised over the others.I and other members of staff who have been in the dept a few years have noticed a real change in the last few years with the emphasis being moved away from customer service and towards a push off benefits. The majority of genuine claimants get penalised because of a minority conning the sytem, but there is also now the impression that the message filtering down from above is simply to cut benefit costs.

ali x

[alibobsy]

BTW Patrick you are right about the new esa benefit. Everything I saw regarding it before I left suggests even more of a push to "get them back to work". With the emphasis on "how can we get you back into work" rather than "how can we help you whilst you are ill". I suspect this will mean even more examinations and form filling for customers. Mind you working on a different benefit I only got an overview and it was still early stages.

Oh and whoever said around 50% of appeals are won was right. This is the figure we were always given.

ali x

[helenm1984]

Hi,

I took your advice, I phoned work and my union, work said that they cannot hold my job indefinatly as no one knows when I'll get better, I said that the consultant is looking in to it, the worse case senario is I need an op, which means I'll need aprx another 6 months off max, unfortunatly Im on the nhs and there are waiting lists, but I could come back part time until my op, when I am better from my car crash, he said that I would still need time off, and would be fired due to unsatisfactory absence when I go for my op, or if indeed just have more than 8 bad days, he said i would be best reapplying when Im a 100% Im always going to have arthritis and therefore will always have bad days, so I asked him, if he was saying that ppl with disabilities such as asthma/arthritis should not work, he said no, but there would be no point me returning to work yet when I will need time off, I spoke to my union, who say that as I was still temp when I went for my operation, its like Ileft the job then, and reapplied like a job seeker, the thing is you wouldn't employ a job seeker who was ill, and you wouldnt hold the job open for them indefinatly, and would only employ them when ther are fit and healthy, or could provide medical proof I will not need time off for my illness or diability, which I can't my doctors says there is a high chance of needing more operations, then follow ups and there are so many varibles etc etc. so where does that leave me, basically no ones ever going to want to employ me, I am so peed off whe I hear the news and dwp saying employers must make allowances for people like me but then tells me to basically get lost, what I am ment to do? and it doesnt help that due to this car accident I have a cracked pelvis, thankfully it should heal with rest, but I cant as I always having to sort stupid things out all the time and Im stressing myself out now! Does any one think I should take my employment case further, again the points are, I was temp (there 6 months) my contract was due to go to permenant on the 31/10/2007, but I had an operation on the 15/09/2007, which took me off sick, so they told me they would hold the position until I recoverd, and I would go back as a permenant member of staff, was getting better, but then told I would need a nose op (not related to disability) told by work, will get the sack if I come back then have to have time off to get better, then hip started to play up, told would likely need an op, work said you need to be better before coming back, then this week 27.01.2008, had a car accident, told by work they cannot hold postion for any longer, so I would have to reapply for another job when 1 is available, I have not been getting sick pay from dwp since 30/09/2007, I have been claiming incapacity.income supp. arrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhh!

Any help or advice would be so appreciated!

[helenm1984]

Hi.

Update, I tried to get a tribunaral but the dwp had already finished my temp contract and just said they were'nt renuing it, as I had not started the permenant job, they said I did not want it, I am too ill, reapply when your better! after everything the dwp (incapacity) benefit people wrote to me up to say I would not need to send sick notes in as I score highly on the points, but would review it in August 2008, joy! it would seem the dwp want to get disabled people off benefits but dont want to employ them or allow time off for people, what a joke!

At the end of the day the dwp should relise if going to work will make your illness/disabilty worse then there is no point going to work, it is stressful for people who are really ill, well for me it was, getting fired, disaplinaries and the horrid looks, I hope one day they realise some people need time to get better, with no hassel I dont think it'll happen!

[patrickq1]

hi helenm sorry to hear of your continuing dilema with the muppet,you should try this and see if their is anything they can do,DWP - About Us - The Disability Discrimination Act 2005

as it is they have discriminated against you,

for the benefit of the LONE RANGER it is now official that sema atos origon do keep all records for 10 years so if anyone else are told they DWP do not keep records after 14 months or their abouts then they are giving you untrue information,i have my MPs letter from atos origon and yes they do keep all records,so now i await the details from the INFORMATION COMMISSIONER and also from ICE as my complaints to them are going ahead especially with ICE also update on my case it is now with the decision maker WHO WILL NOW ASSES THE AMOUNT OF COMPENSATION,BUT ALSO BEARING IN MIND THAT THE AREA MANAGER FOR THE DWP stated that the claim would be rejected,this she said in front of my MP so i then acused her of bias and i am under the impression she would try to influence the case with the DECISION MAKER ,she took acception to this and i said that if i find for any reason you have done this then i shall do my upmost to have you reconsidered as incapable of a management job....she was taken back with this ,but i have now asked for a full report to what she has passed to the DECISION MAKER as is my right under the FOI act,and also my MP has asked for full report because he thinks the same as me she is very vindictive and it is now personal with her ,so i now have to wait another four weeks before i hear from the decision maker but in the meantime i shall do my upmost to see what can be done about her position as i see it she is not fit to be a manager and to make my case personal, and not only that to withhold my information sent from atos origon to her from me and my MP has probably landed her in deep crap so to say being polite as usual....

anyway hope you hear better news soon hellenm

patrickq1

[helenm1984]

Hi.

Thanks for that, I have tried the dda act against them, but they say they dont consider me disabled, which again I have proven my disability with doctors note etc, but they say, as I was temp my contract came to an end, and I didnt take up their offer of permenant employment as I didnt come back to work in the allocated time, so as it stands with them (or so they say) is that my temp contract came to end and thats that, which to me is aload or bs, as I have a permenant offer in writing! but no one can help I've tried every disablity help point, cab and my unions, also my old employer told me to reapply when (when being the main point)

they have another position, but I have been told if I was offered a job before I do not have to reapply, but again the dwp say they are not aware of that so therefore I cant do that, also to reapply, I have to work in another job for 6 months apparently, so I give up, to be honest, its upset me so much I just dont think I'll ever get another job and keep it, I just keep getting fired and the employer always finds away of getting away with it, sorry to moan so much, I'm just getting annoyed!

[ukbix]

you are also within your right to video tape any emp visits,they may object but it is within your rights......if they object then ask them why this is for their benefit as much as it is yours ,do not let them off just do it

patrickq1

 

DO NOT FOLLOW THAT ADVICE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

 

ATOS will simply inform you (as per their official guidance) that you can only record the interview under very strict conditions (stricter than required even by the Police and Criminal Evidence act!) which are also very costly (hire of trained professionals, equipment etc etc)

 

If you insist on recording without fullfilling their ludicrous conditions then THEY WILL STOP THE MEDICAL, then you WILL LOSE YOUR BENEFIT, and WILL NOT WIN AT APPEAL.

 

This has been the subject of a previous tribunal etc and the claimaint did lose, the ONLY two ways to record a medical are

 

1. Comply with ATOS rules re twin deck machine, two copies of recording, professional calibration immediately before examination etc etc

OR

2. Do it covertly, ie secretly DO NOT TELL THEM YOU ARE RECORDING.