Neil S vs Barclays

[Neil S]

This is my first post here, so Hi Everyone!

 

I've managed to progress my case reasonably far before finding this site (after watching the edition of Tonight devoted to this subject).

 

I'm looking for some advice and guidance on how best to proceed from here... I'll post a brief version of the story so far to give you all some idea of what has transpired:

 

29th March 2006.

I write to Barclays asking them to supply me with statements for the last 6 years. I enclose a cheque for £10, which they return

 

27th April 2006

Having recieved the statements and done some sums I reckon they have taken £890 off me over the last six years. I write to them informing them that their charges are contrary to Section 1(e) of the 1999 Consumer Contracts Regulations, and that I beleive their charges to be penalties which are irrecoverable at common law, as proved by Castaneda and Others V. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co (1904) 12 SLT 498 and of Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79. I give them 14 days to refund the £890.

 

 

5th May 2006

I receive a letter back from Mike Brophy, with the usual "sorry you are unhappy, one of my team will get back to you in due course"

 

18th May 2006

As my 14 day deadline has been and gone, I remind Mr Brophy of his committment and my deadline, and give them a further 7 days to refund my money.

 

30th May 2006

I receive the following letter from Karl Voller:

 

1st June

I write back:

"Firstly, thank you for your letter of 30th May, and the offer contained within.

 

In no way am I rejecting the offer of £400 towards my claim.

 

However, I have discussed this matter with both the Financial Services Authority (FSA) and the Office of Fair Trading (OFT). After these discussions, I still feel that the charges levied upon me by Barclays Bank PLC are disproportionately high when compared with the actual cost incurred during the administration of my account.

 

Therefore I re-iterate my request for Barclays to repay the total in full (£890) into my account. Failure to comply within seven (7) days will result in legal action."

 

 

27th June 2006 (Today)

After repeated phone calls, Mr Voller has not responded to either my letter or may calls. I eventually get through to him today (Turns out he's quite busy at the moment!! ) We were both very civil to each other, but he is not budging on the £400 offer.

 

 

 

 

Now, I would very much like to recover the whole £890, but I'm not so sure I can be pestered with another court appearance (I fought a leaky speeding case last year). Where do you lot think I should go from here? The way I see it, I either:

 

 

1) Fold and accept the £400 - it's better than nothing

 

 

2) File the Money Claim and sit back and wait for a court date.

 

Are people getting paid in full prior to court hearings? What are my chances of this happening?

 

 

Thanks in Advance - that was a mighty long first post

 

 

Neil.

[barracad]

This may sound harsh, but you need to decide what you are doing and stop extending your deadlines - they are not going to offer you the full amount no matter how many 7 day extensions you give them.

 

I assume you used templates from this site advising you would take them to court - if so why did you threaten court action if you were not prepared to do this?

 

There is a step-by-step guide on the site telling you what to do and the next step would obviously be to take them to court. However nobody can make the decision for you, you need to do this yourself. If you look round the forums you can see that it is highly unlikely your case will actually end up in court - they will settle in full.

[Michael Browne]

It's entirely your choice.

 

Barclays have yet to step into court, but have usually taken it to the wire before settling.

 

If you're happy to forego nearly £500, then take the money.

 

Personally I would want it all, but as I say it's up to you

[Neil S]

This may sound harsh, but you need to decide what you are doing and stop extending your deadlines - they are not going to offer you the full amount no matter how many 7 day extensions you give them.

 

I assume you used templates from this site advising you would take them to court - if so why did you threaten court action if you were not prepared to do this?

 

Barracad: That does not sound harsh at all - I asked for advice and you gave it!! I actually modified letters I found elsewhere on the net (mainly to correct grammatical slip-ups). I wasn't aware of this site until recently. I threatened court action in the hope that it may spur them into action: Once the offer of £400 arrived, it seemed like an easier option - surely nobody WANTS to go to court?

 

Michael: Thanks for your thoughts

 

Tomorrow is payday - I will likely fill in the money claim tomorrow night and take it from there.

 

Cheers!

 

Neil.

[Rooster-UK]

Good luck, Neil.

(Not that you'll need it.)

:D

[Neil S]

Well, I've filled in the moneyclaim online form, was just wondering if someone with a better mind could check my wording? It's quite hard to get under the maximum number of characters without altering the wording on the moneyclaim guidelines thread!

 

"I have a contract with the defendant bank,

which is conducted on their standard terms

and conditions. I am claiming the return of

£920 taken by the defendant in the way of

charges over the last 6 years plus the

interest they have levied on those charges.

The bank's charges are a disproportionate

penalty and therefore unenforceable as they

are contrary to common law. Further, as a

disproportionate penalty they are invalid

under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977

s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer

Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2

(1)(e). In the event that the charges are

not a penalty then they are unreasonable

within the meaning of the Supply of Goods

and Services Act 1982 s.15. I have asked the

bank to justify their charges but they have

declined. I claim interest under section

69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate

of 8% a year from 26th Apr 2001 to 28th

July 2006 of £179.19 and also interest at

the same rate up to the date of judgment or

earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.24."

 

Does that look OK?

 

Neil.

[jasun]

I claimed against Barclays last year, for £1195, it went to stage 6 (court date set) but they paid up. I'll soon be putting in a 2nd claim with them.

 

Loking at what you posted, you are dealing with someone from customer relations. You should direct your request at the legal department and state they have 7 days to refund the charges and include a list. If they don't pay, then open the case. Looking at the average, it seems a lot of people are getting paid back earlier than I did, but mine was probably one of the first ones (only 59 currently on the servey) to be done, back in July last year so maybe they have decided against wasting time these days.

 

My new claim is for over £750 at present, so we'll see how far they play it this time.

 

Don't accept an offer of less, you want the full amount!

[Neil S]

Jasun: I'm getting conflicting reports here - barracad is saying simply take them to court, you suggest I need to write to the legal department first. Do you think I will get any joy writing to the legal department? From most of the threads I have read, they don't budge on their offers.

 

Am I actually at the stage where a moneyclaim is appropriate?

 

I've got the wording below saved on the moneyclaim site, just need to hit 'submit' and I'm done... Am I missing anything, or have I gotten any of the wording wrong? I don't want to give them any room to wriggle!

 

The only thing I can think of is I should probably add my account number and sort code - does anyone else have any suggestions?

 

Cheers!!

 

Neil.

[Michael Browne]

=[/color]"I have an account (a/c no)with the defendant (bank),

which is conducted on their standard terms

and conditions. I am claiming the return of

£920 taken by the defendant in the way of

charges over the last 6 years plus (the) (amount)

interest they have levied on those charges.

The bank's charges are a disproportionate

penalty and therefore unenforceable as they

are contrary to common law. Further, as a

disproportionate penalty they are invalid

under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977

s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer

Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2

(1)(e). In the event that the charges are

not a penalty then they are unreasonable

within the meaning of the Supply of Goods

and Services Act 1982 s.15. I have asked the

bank to justify their charges but they have

declined. I claim interest under section

69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate

of 8% a year from 26th Apr 2001 to 28th

July 2006 of £179.19 and also interest at

the same rate up to the date of judgment or

earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.24."

 

Two points.

As you say put in your a/c no. No need for sort code

You say your claiming interest on the charges, but haven't said how much

Otherwise seems fine to me.

When you get what seems like conflicting advice, I would always take notice of a Mod's advice

[Neil S]

Thanks Michael

 

Looks like I'm good to go then - I'd actually stated the amount of interest further down my statement:

 

"I have a contract with the defendant bank,

which is conducted on their standard terms

and conditions. I am claiming the return of

£920 taken by the defendant in the way of

charges over the last 6 years plus the

interest they have levied on those charges.

The bank's charges are a disproportionate

penalty and therefore unenforceable as they

are contrary to common law. Further, as a

disproportionate penalty they are invalid

under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977

s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer

Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2

(1)(e). In the event that the charges are

not a penalty then they are unreasonable

within the meaning of the Supply of Goods

and Services Act 1982 s.15. I have asked the

bank to justify their charges but they have

declined. I claim interest under section

69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate

of 8% a year from 26th Apr 2001 to 28th

July 2006 of £179.19 and also interest at

the same rate up to the date of judgment or

earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.24."

 

I'll get the account number added and submit it!

 

Neil.

[Neil S]

Well, I filed the moneyclaim and today have had an Acknowledgement of Service from Barclays via the court. It states Keith Jeremiah's intent to defend all of the claim.

 

Should I be doing anything other than re-reading the forum?

 

Cheers,

 

Neil.

[Michael Browne]

Nowthat they've acknowledged they have 28 days from the original date of service to file a defence. Nothing for you to do except wait and carry on reading

[Neil S]

Well today was day 28... sometime around 11am Barclays filed a defence - talk about cutting it fine!!!

 

I guess I sit tight and await my copy of the defence and an AQ.

 

I read with interest that some people have entered into discussion with Mr Jeremiah - is this a recommended course of action?

 

I'm not too worried about speaking to him over the telephone (If it gets heavy, I'll just say there's someone knocking on the door ), but obviously would rather do it in writing.

 

What are the expert's thoughts on this approach?

 

Cheers,

 

Neil.

[sean28]

Just reading your thread, I;m just writing my prelim letter, for a similar amount to yours, and I think I to would consider the first option of £400 instead of the hassle of court, but after ready all the other claims that have been settled before court, I think it's worth a go.

Will be following your case with interest.

 

good luck

 

Sean28

[Neil S]

Cheers Sean

 

Right, my Notice of Transfer of Proceedings, Allocation Questionnaire and Barclays 'Defence' have arrived this morning.

 

The defence is the standard one as posted many times here, this time signed by a James MacDonald, 'Pupil Barrister' (although the email address is still K Jeremiah's).

 

I'm especially interested in attempting to mediate with them (in as much as I'd like them to pay up ASAP), but don't want to appear a pushover. I'd really like some advice on this

 

I reckon I can manage the AQ myself, but I can't decide whether I should be asking them for disclosure of the charge breakdown.

 

Cheers,

 

Neil.

[Neil S]

I'd really like some advice on the above please!

 

Neil.

[Neil S]

Is there really nobody here who can advise me on this?

 

Anway, since I posted last I have filled in the AQ and returned it. I have been in contact with the local combined court (who have been very helpful throughout ). Barclays let it go right to the wire before submitting their AQ. My case has been passed to the listings officer who will be in touch next week...

 

I'm now considering writing to KJ offering him one last chance to settle. Obviously, this will be for the full amount plus interest, plus MCOL costs.

 

I'm concerned that the longer it takes, the more chance Barclays have of finding a defence that stands up in court :-|

 

I would like to speed things up as much as possible, hence the idea of writing to them.

 

Is there anything else I could / should be doing?

 

Neil.

[Martz]

Good luck with it, sorry to see nobody is posting anything supportive at the moment. I've only just registered here and you seem to be confident in your case and the law that supports you - so I guess you can only scrub up on that a bit.

[Spotted Dog]

You can write to KJ but I very much doubt it will make a blind bit of difference. It just helps if you write saying here is an opportunity to settle without wasting the courts time for your own case. Barclays dont give a hoot and will only be interested if you offer to settle for less than the full amount (i.e. something to their advantage)

You cannot speed up this process - Barclays will only pay in full when they have to , in order not to appear in Court.

 

Just try to be patient

 

Spotty

[orfoster]

I agree with Spotted Dog. You will need to wait and they will pay in full but i bet this will only be at the last minute as some people will still drop out at this point so they are trying to save money.

[Neil S]

Thanks Guys

 

I received a letter from the court on Saturday morning. There is a "Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing)" document which does what it suggests, and an order with the following directions:

 

1) Each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies od all documents (including expert's reports if the Court has given permission for expert evidence to be used) and Skeleton Arguments on which he intends to rely at the hearing.

 

2) The copies shall be delivered by 4pm on Tuesday, 10th October 2006.

 

3) The original documents shall be brought to the hearing.

 

4) Signed statements setting out the evidence of all witnesses (including expert witnesses if permission has been given to use them) on whom each party intends to rely shall be prepared and copies included in the documents mentioned in paragraph 1. This includes the evidence of the parties themselves and of any other witnesses whether or not the witnesses are going to come to court to give evidence.

 

5) The court must be informed immediately if the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date.

 

Now, 2), 3) and 5) are trivial, but I have a few questions...

 

With regard to the skeleton arguments mentioned in 1), is it normal for the claimant to submit a skeleton argument to the defendant? I would have thought that disclosure of evidence was sufficient? Would the reasoning Here form an adequate skeleton argument or not?

 

In 4), I was under the impression that for any written statement to be admissible as evidence in court it must be S9 compliant. Since I shall be appearing in person in court, why do I need to provide a written statement, and a non-compliant one at that? (Assuming S9 applies to small claims court).

 

Cheers!

 

Neil.

[Neil S]

The 10th of October is drawing ever closer, can anyone help me please?

 

Neil.

[Neil S]

I could do with a hand with my skeleton defence please?

[victimnomore]

I can't offer any real advice - I haven't reached that stage myself yet - I just didn't want you to feel neglected!!

 

I wonder if this would be helpful; Wolfcub Vs Lloyds (see post 37). It's not a Barclays claim, but I don't think that matters too much. At any rate it gives you some points to think about while waiting for a more expert member to reply to you.

[austenpowers]

Neil, I can't really help with this as I am not at your stage yet but wanted to make sure you are on track to get all your documents in on time?

 

As the last poster said, I'm sure one of the more experienced people on here will be along soon to answer your questions.

 

All the best