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    • An update to this case as I’ve not been on in a while.    I am still awaiting a charging decision in the case. The two police officers involved have said their personal belief is a section 47 ABH charge is the most likely outcome but this isn’t a sure thing of course.    The EA certificate from the issuing court has now lapsed. The court have refused to recertify him until they’ve had a hearing in to the case, and the district judge has issued orders to surrender all evidence, footage, photos etc.    I have done so promptly.    the EA, not so much . Equita have claimed they cannot provide his bodycam footage as the camera he was wearing is the EA personal one not one of theirs.   the EA has claimed he has asked Equita and the police for the footage as he claims he doesn’t have it.    the police have confirmed they didn’t seize his camera and they don’t have it.    so they are basically pointing the finger at each other all the while failing to comply with the district judges order to provide all evidence they intend to rely on at the rescheduled hearing.    The district judge has stated the hearing for his certification will NOT be the hearing for my complaint as there is no charge as of yet, and just as to whether he should be recertified or not.    I’m not 100% on why that can’t be done at the time, but I’m not about to question a judge…..      
    • Thanks FTMDave, I like the cut of your jib - I'll go with that and obtain proof of postage. Encouraging that NPE have never followed through and seem to blowing hot air, let's see where they go after this   Regards
    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
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Driving after a seizure and DVLA still assessing fitness to drive


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I had a seizure a couple of weeks ago, first one ever, and the hospital told me to speak to the DVLA, who told me I had to complete a declaration (FEP1 form) so they could assess my fitness to drive. According to the guidelines it could be a 6 month ban.

 

However the form says "you must not drive if your doctor says you cannot drive". Neither my doctor or the consultant at the hospital will give me a decision - they say that's for the DVLA to decide.

 

So, while the form is being processed etc - am I OK to drive, since no one has said I can't?

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I had a seizure a couple of weeks ago, first one ever, and the hospital told me to speak to the DVLA, who told me I had to complete a declaration (FEP1 form) so they could assess my fitness to drive. According to the guidelines it could be a 6 month ban.

 

However the form says "you must not drive if your doctor says you cannot drive". Neither my doctor or the consultant at the hospital will give me a decision - they say that's for the DVLA to decide.

 

So, while the form is being processed etc - am I OK to drive, since no one has said I can't?

 

p.18 of DVLA's guidance, for

First unprovoked epileptic seizure / isolated seizure : Group 1 (car) "Must not drive and must notify DVLA. Driving will be prohibited for 6 months from date of the seizure".

 

If you think your doctors aren't giving you a decision, you need to ask them why they feel that guideline doesn't apply - do they think there is a different cause?.

 

Unless there is some complicating factor in play here (where they should be explaining it to you), you and they know the answer; which is you shouldn't be driving.

If you cause an accident by driving and having a further seizure:

a) you won't be insured,

b) you'll be liable to prosecution.

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Then you have a choice to make.

Show your doctor the leaflet issued by the government and tell them they are wrong.

Or

Stop driving until the DVLA make a decision.

 

Do you want to take the chance of having another seizure and possibly mow-ing someone down and kill them.

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It may not be that the doctors are 'wrong',

they may have reason to be applying a different guideline than "First unprovoked epileptic seizure / isolated seizure"

OP's best bet is to not drive for now, and seek an urgent explanation from their doctor(s)!.

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Well I would go with section 88 of the road traffic act rather tan DVLA guidance.

If the doctors are not willing to Say your fit to drive, I would take it as they don't think your fit to drive.

 

The consequences of driving and having another seizure far outweigh the slight inconvenience of not driving until a firm medical decision is made.

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p.18 of DVLA's guidance, for

First unprovoked epileptic seizure / isolated seizure : Group 1 (car) "Must not drive and must notify DVLA. Driving will be prohibited for 6 months from date of the seizure".

 

If you think your doctors aren't giving you a decision, you need to ask them why they feel that guideline doesn't apply - do they think there is a different cause?.

 

Unless there is some complicating factor in play here (where they should be explaining it to you), you and they know the answer; which is you shouldn't be driving.

If you cause an accident by driving and having a further seizure:

a) you won't be insured,

b) you'll be liable to prosecution.

 

Yes, that seems fair enough. Its just I've gone round in circles - the DVLA have said I need to ask my doctor if I can drive, and they say they can't decide that and its up to the DVLA.

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Well I would go with section 88 of the road traffic act rather tan DVLA guidance.

If the doctors are not willing to Say your fit to drive, I would take it as they don't think your fit to drive.

 

The consequences of driving and having another seizure far outweigh the slight inconvenience of not driving until a firm medical decision is made.

 

Section 88 seems to refer to people who don't currently have a licence. I do - I just need a decision made as to whether I can drive while my circumstances are investigated.

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It may not be that the doctors are 'wrong', they may have reason to be applying a different guideline than "First unprovoked epileptic seizure / isolated seizure"

OP's best bet is to not drive for now, and seek an urgent explanation from their doctor(s)!.

 

The consultant at the hospital said that although I'd had a seizure, in his opinion I did not have epilepsy.

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Section 88 seems to refer to people who don't currently have a licence. I do - I just need a decision made as to whether I can drive while my circumstances are investigated.

 

Have you clicked the link and downloaded the leaflet??????

 

You need to find out if the dvla have suspended your licence whilst they look at you application. They sometimes do this carte blanche.

Your doctor can overturn this.

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So, I may not have been far off with

It may not be that the doctors are 'wrong', they may have reason to be applying a different guideline than "First unprovoked epileptic seizure / isolated seizure"

OP's best bet is to not drive for now, and seek an urgent explanation from their doctor(s)!.

 

Since,

 

The consultant at the hospital said that although I'd had a seizure, in his opinion I did not have epilepsy.

 

which begs the follow-up question:

"OK, what do you think caused the seizure, and what is its impact on my fitness to drive....."

 

Section 88 seems to refer to people who don't currently have a licence. I do - I just need a decision made as to whether I can drive while my circumstances are investigated.

 

Precisely (regarding S.88)

 

Well I would go with section 88 of the road traffic act rather tan DVLA guidance.

If the doctors are not willing to Say your fit to drive, I would take it as they don't think your fit to drive.

 

The consequences of driving and having another seizure far outweigh the slight inconvenience of not driving until a firm medical decision is made.

 

S. 88 isn't applicable here.

 

S.88 applies either:

a) when someone has previously voluntarily surrendered their licence because they think they don't meet the guidelines, and then re-applies once they believe they meet them again. They can then drive pending their application being reviewed. This encourages voluntary surrender (it doesn't apply if DVLA revoke / rescind the licence rather than it being voluntarily surrendered), or

b) A licence expires, and an application for a new licence has been made prior to the expiry (and the applicant believes they meet the standards). The applicant can then drive (but only in the UK, the situation regarding S.88 permission is unclear for other jurisdictions) while their application is being processed.

 

If DVLA are 'making medical enquiries' and a licence expires while they are still assessing the application they send the applicant a (not terribly helpful!) S.88 letter!

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Or the dvla suspend the licence whilst investigating.

 

This happens to my father.

He had a blackout, not driving.

He informed dvla

They suspendedlicence while investigated, but failed to notify my dad, letter missing in post.

Its only when he checked online on my advice he found out.

 

Doctor then said its a one off and ok to drive.

Dad informed dvla

Suspension lifted while they continued to investigate.

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Or the dvla suspend the licence whilst investigating.

.......

 

Doctor then said its a one off and ok to drive.

Dad informed dvla

Suspension lifted while they continued to investigate.

 

This isn't the OP's situation though. Op has specifically noted that they haven't been told they are OK to drive ......

 

Not being told "you mustn't drive" isn't the same as being told "you can drive" !.

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Have you clicked the link and downloaded the leaflet??????

 

You need to find out if the dvla have suspended your licence whilst they look at you application. They sometimes do this carte blanche.

Your doctor can overturn this.

 

They've sent me a letter saying "thanks for informing us of your change in health, you can either surrender your licence or if you don't wish to, fill in this medical form and we will make an assessment". And then "if you don't do this within 14 days we may revoke your licence". So I don't think they'll have suspended it yet.

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My father wasn't told either.

 

He also wasn't told his licence was revolked whilst under investigation.

 

It was only after finding out he went to doctor.

Hence my first couple of replies.

But we are rather splitting hairs here.

 

If it was me....

I wouldn't drive until dvla Said I'm good to drive

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This isn't the OP's situation though. Op has specifically noted that they haven't been told they are OK to drive ......

 

Not being told "you mustn't drive" isn't the same as being told "you can drive" !.

 

Kind of is, I think. I think the neurologist would have said that if it was so important.

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Kind of is, I think. I think the neurologist would have said that if it was so important.

 

You can bet that if you drive, get caught (or have an accident as a result of a seizure), you can bet that their approach will be "no, I definitely didn't tell them they could drive"!

 

They've sent me a letter saying "thanks for informing us of your change in health, you can either surrender your licence or if you don't wish to, fill in this medical form and we will make an assessment". And then "if you don't do this within 14 days we may revoke your licence". So I don't think they'll have suspended it yet.

 

And theirin lies the rub.

If you don;t surrender your licence, and have another fit, causing an accident, you'll likely get prosecuted and will almost certainly find yourself uninsured (have you spoken with your insurers? if they won;t cover you, that might influence your drcision!).

If you don't surrender your licence and DVLA revoke it, you won;t later get the benefit of S.88

 

If you decide to surrender your licence (which you may decide to do, especially if your insurers won't cover you!), you then get the benefit of S.88 (although you may find you still can't get insurance until DVLA re-issue your licence!).

 

Either way, take a copy of your licence (and any counterpart!), as entitlements have been known to 'go missing'.

If you surrender your licence or DVLA revoke it, when you get a new licence you may find that you no longer have C1/D1 entitlement that used to be issued automatically if the first 'B' test was passed before January 1997

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What's the benefit of S.88?

 

I've found the below here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/general-information-assessing-fitness-to-drive:

 

"Driving during medical enquiries

The time taken to obtain all necessary reports can be lengthy but a licence holder normally retains entitlement to drive under Section 88 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. However, a driver whose last licence was revoked or refused because of a medical condition or is a High Risk Offender re-applying after a drink/drive disqualification from 1 June 2013 would not, however, be eligible to drive until they are issued with a new licence.

 

The driver may be covered to drive but this carries implications for road safety in that the licence holder may continue to drive with a medical condition that, on completion of the DVLA’s enquiries, may ultimately result in licence withdrawal.

 

It is for the patient to assure themself that they are fit to drive. Medical professionals asked for an opinion about a patient’s fitness to drive in these circumstances should explain the likely outcome by reference to this guide. The final decision in relation to driver licensing will, however, rest with the DVLA.

 

By reference to the DVLA’s guidance, the doctor in charge of an individual’s care should be able to advise the driver whether or not it is safe for them to continue to drive during this period.

 

Patients must be reminded that if they choose to ignore medical advice to stop driving this may affect their insurance cover. Doctors are advised to formally and clearly document the advice given."

 

 

Interesting that my consultant has refused to provide guidance on this, other than to tell me to speak to DVLA.

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