I have had a visit from Jacobs bailiffs I have offered to make a monthly payment but have been told that it is too late, although this was the first visit. I owe £443.00 council tax and had one bailiff removals letter posted through my door, Jacobs have added their charges and now I have an outstanding bill of £655.08 and will receive £720.00 tomorrow, due to the phone conversation I had today with the bailiff in charge, where I felt totally intimidated, I said I would pay tomorrow, although not stating how much, he has adviced me that goods from my home will be removed if I dont pay and basically using scare tactics. I am a single parent on family tax credits and work part time, so if I were to pay the full amount this would leave myself and my 6 year old daughter without gas, electric, and food.

I am now unsure what to do and would be greatful of any advice on this matter, this is causing me no end of stress when Im already on anti depressants. I am extremely worried that the bailiff will just turn up and try to gain entery into the property as he has already stated that things can be taken in my absence which is a worry as there is only myself and my young daughter in the house.

hi, Most bailiffs do not have the right to force their way into your home to seize your goods. The only exception is that bailiffs from the Collector of Taxes (Inland Revenue) can get a warrant to force entry, but this is very rare.All other bailiffs have a right of peaceful entry only. This means that they cannot use force to enter your home, for example, by breaking a window or a door. However, they can enter your property through an open door or window (front and back) and can climb over fences and gates, but cannot break them down. You do not have to let a bailiff into your house. A bailiff cannot force their way past you if you answer the door. If all your doors and windows are securely closed they will not be able to gain peaceful entry to your house unless you let them in.Bailiffs are well aware of their limited powers and may use a variety of different means to gain entry peaceably. They may attempt to walk in as soon as a door is opened. They may ask if they can use your telephone to check if an arrangement is satisfactory with their office. They may simply ask you if you would prefer to discuss matters inside. You do not have to go along with any of these methods.

Is the money you owe confirmed by the Council - there are a few instances of the Bailiffs putting different figures in letters. If the figures you mention are to be belived then the Bailiff is having a laugh at your expense. If he has only made the 1 visit and providing he never gained entry to your home or otherwise levied on goods outside then the most he can charge you is £24-50, if he comes again and the same happens he can add another fee of £18-00, no matter how many more times he comes he can charge you no more providing he does not seize any goods.

There is no law that states you have to deal with or speak to a Bailiff. He has no automatic right of entry to your home but can gain entry through a closed but unlocked door or window. He will tell you all sorts of things - imprisonment, attendance with the Police or Locksmith, arrest, losing your children - all tall tales. As he has never gained entry he cannot under any circumstances force entry to your home. He can remove goods in your absence but these would be restricted to anything lying outside - you should put anything under lock & key - favourite item of course is a car & if you have one then move it well away, a good 10 minute walk is a good idea. One of his favourite times for calling is schooltime at the beginning of the day or teatime when he will think you have lowered your guard.

He will try anything to intimidate or bully you - best thing is to disbelieve everything he says. If you have to talk to him try & do it through the letterbox or an upstairs window, try not to phone him as he will deny everything that is said - it is a good idea to try and record any conversation.

You can of course start to pay the Council direct using internet banking, Council website or automated phone. If you this there are a couple of golden rules:

1 - pay a regular amount at regular intervals - £10 every Thursday for example - do not pay more than you can comfortably afford

2 - you may have to allow for legitimate Bailiff fees - as said providing he makes no levy then this is solely for the 2 Visit Fees = £42-50

PT

He has never gained access to the property and has only visited the property once to hand deliver a letter I have tried to talk to the council direct about this matter but got told its not their problem, after some of the things I have read they should be able to take the debt back from the bailiffs and allow me to pay this back at a rate I can afford, can anyone confirm this for me. thanks for all the advice

Inform council of bully boy tactics from the bailiffs

the council should then take the account back I belive

thank you I will be in touch with the council in the morning

your welcome

thank you I will contact the council in the morning

Simplest method with the Council is to ask to speak to the Revenue Recoveries manager - don't take no for an answer, tell him the Bailiff is trying to charge you more than £200 over the top on his fees, is insisting he can force entry to your home when he plainly cannot.You therefore refuse to deal with a cheat, a liar & a bully, if he then refuses advise him this will make a good story for the press of how the Council treat their customers in particular single parents with a young family.

PT

...........and when they keep on telling you they "can't do anything as it is with the bailfft" then you start telling them you are aggrieved with the way their appointed Bailiffs have conducted your account and as a direct result to that behaviour you will be making future payments direct to them of £xxx on xx day/date and should they refuse to accept that you will give every consideration to escalating the matter to a Regulation 46.

This approach is having more effect than repeatedly asking them to take the account back.. It would seem more and more Councils are finding themselves having to intervene or face the consequences of the dispute being taken to a Regulation 46.

WD

Remember the council is WHOLLY LIABLE for any wrongful action by their agent the bailiffs, so as per WD and PT I would tell them you are aggrieved by their bailiffs behaviour and threats so WILL pay directly using the online system regularly, they cannot refuse payments by this method. You could tender payments at the office and if they refuse them telling you to contact Jacobs, ask them to put the refusal in writing there and then, as it will come in handy later, them pay using the online system and print off receipts.

thanks again for all the good advice, all the comments have helped, as I said I will contact the council this morning as I now know my rights and that I should not be bullied into making a payment that I just cant afford, thanks to everyone

thanks again for all the good advice, all the comments have helped, as I said I will contact the council this morning as I now know my rights and that I should not be bullied into making a payment that I just cant afford, thanks to everyone

Let us know how you get on, there is usually someone around most of the day, to help with any queries.

I will keep everyone informed as you have all helped put my mind at rest and made me realise that I dont have to be intimidated by the bailliffs

I have spoken to the council this morning and offered to make a monthly payment that I can afford but they have refused stating that the debt is with the bailiff and I need to deal with them, I also asked for them to recall the debt but again they refused, and have also refused to put this in writing for me. I told them that each month on a certain day I will pay a certain amount online, only to be told that it will be taken off my council tax bill for this year, although I have a direct debit set up of this amount. I also stated about regulation 46 but got told I have been misinformed and that I should seek advice from a solicitor.

The bailiffs office have also refused to take a monthly payment stating that the bailiff I am now dealing with is a recovery bailiff and wont accept anything but the whole amount, which I can not afford to pay in one go. I told Jacobs that Im refusing to have any dealings with the bailiff as he has lied and bullied me into thinking he can gain access to the property while I am out, which I now know he cant, I was told that I have the right to do this. I was then told that if the bailiff does not get the payment from me that it will be handed back to the council and go to court again. At no time has the amount been means tested.

I am about to do two letters of complaint, one to the council and one to Jacobs, who on their website state that they will help if you are unable to repay the debt in full.

The thing is now is I am not sure how I stand should I go ahead and make online payments to the council, my thinking on this is if it goes back to court I have shown that I have tried to pay the debt back direct to the council and also should I stand firm against Jacobs and refuse to have any contact with them?

A Regulation 46 Complaint is only relevant if they have seized goods, usually the goods do not belong to you or have insufficient value to satisfy all costs and part of the debt. This is usually done when both Council and Bailiffs refuse to address the issues complained of. As nothing has so far been seized then the Council are correct in their reply.

You do have a cause for complaint at present if the Council are refusing to take payment from you. It is also not for them to dictate as to which debt it is taken from - are they therefore insinuating that if you pay now they take it off this years CT and when you have paid enough you are going into credit. If you look at your CT bill it will have an account number and this never varies, however the reference number does and by quoting this the payment goes to the correct year you are paying. If in doubt you can take cash to the Council offices - if they then refuse your offer of payment they can be seen to be obstructive which can then lead to a reprimand from the LGO.

Obviously the Bailiffs are also being obstructive by refusing to take payment. Now is the time to outline these concerns in a Formal Complaint made to the Council CEO - both letter & envelope should be marked as Formal Complaint. You should also contact your local Councillor(s) and advise them of your situation informing him/her that both Council & Bailiff are refusing to accept payments. If any reluctance or refusal you go over their heads to the Leader of the Council and his opposite number.

PT

I posted something similar to this on another thread and thought it might be relevant to you:

.........Interestingly I came across this Council Tax Investigation into Milton Keynes local authority for alleged fiddling of in-year council tax collection rates.

 

What I thought might be relevant to your case was this from the report:

 

QUOTE:

 

3.3.1 The collection and reporting of Council Tax income is straightforward when a tax payer pays their annual charge within that year. Complexities arise when a Council Tax Payer falls into arrears and owes the council money for past years as well as the current year. There is significant case law (for example, Peter v Anderson (1814)) however, put simply, if a person specifies which years debt the payment should be assigned it should be assigned to that years debt.

 

3.3.2 The council tax system has built in allocation rules to ensure that the law with respect to specified payments is met. For instance, if a customer has a payment plan for any year of debt and the payment they make matches the planned instalment then the money will be allocated to that year (this is known as “hard” allocation on the council tax system). If the system is unable to “hard allocate” then it will instead “soft” allocate and the debt will be used against the oldest debt unless manually adjusted.

 

 

In my opinion the council are preventing you from "hard allocating" your payments (as they call it).

 

I would specify to the council which year you intended your previous payments assigning to and quote something similar to what it says in the above quote.

 

Items 3.3.3, 3.3.4 and 3.3.5 of the report may also be relevant and worth reading.

To support plodertom's advice and decipher what's quoted above, you are well within your rights to specify which year you want to allocate your payments.

Only if you don't specify the year (hard allocate) will the system make payment automatically to the oldest debt. To further complicate this, it seems that the council's system will differentiate between exact instalment amounts / agreed payments and other sums that don't exactly coincide with such payments i.e, those that don't exactly match will automatically allocate to the oldest debt.

With regards the council being obstructive, this is probably easier said than done, but you might want to enquire into what they have to hide by not putting in writing that they are refusing you offer of payment.

" I also stated about regulation 46 but got told I have been misinformed and that I should seek advice from a solicitor".

I apologise to having made this comment, I had copied and pasted advice given to another cagger in the same position as yourself but forgot to delete the last

sentence, it was very remiss of me not to have checked the post and if it has caused you embarrasment I am truly sorry. and it goes without saying I will be double checking everything I post with great care from now on.

WD

thank you outlawla that is really good advice as my direct debits are to £70.00 per month and I have offered a £50.00 payment to clear the outstanding debt which I will do online

that is not a problem WD, I am thankful for all the advice I have gained on here it has helped no end and made me feel more confident about dealing with the bailiff ( or not as I have refused to have any contact with such a bully), and to tackle the council about this matter.

I just think that the Milton Keynes council have it in for me as a few years ago I won a tribunal against them over benefits overpayments, and was awarded £2000.00. I am at present awaiting another appeal against the council again for overpayments of benefit which so far has taken a year and still I am waiting, this is where this outstanding council tax bill comes from.

I did forget to mention that I had another visit from Jacobs Bailiffs today my bill went from £655.08 to £785.08 for him to turn up in his car, sit outside my property for half an hour and have a lunch break and to knock on the door for about 5 minutes, where is the justice in that. The orginal debt is for about £444.00.

.......I just think that the Milton Keynes council have it in for me as a few years ago I won a tribunal against them over benefits overpayments, and was awarded £2000.00. I am at present awaiting another appeal against the council again for overpayments of benefit which so far has taken a year and still I am waiting, this is where this outstanding council tax bill comes from.

It's understandable why you would assume the council have a vendetta against you, but this is just how they are with anyone who has a dispute about their bailiffs. Councils operate far too mechanically for anything to become personal. Council staff are just trained to be awkward.

By the way, my post #17 using Milton Keynes as an example was pure coincidence.

I did forget to mention that I had another visit from Jacobs Bailiffs today my bill went from £655.08 to £785.08 for him to turn up in his car, sit outside my property for half an hour and have a lunch break and to knock on the door for about 5 minutes, where is the justice in that. The orginal debt is for about £444.00.

Have you sent off for a breakdown of fees from them. If not then may I suggest you do so ASAP, here's an example of what to send them, adapt as you see fit and send initially by email followed with a copy in the post.

"From:

My Name

My Address

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

Ripped off customer"

PT

I had dealings with that bunch of twonks 18 months ago and they would NOT allow me to pay off the debt in less than two payments so I had to dig deep and almost eat straw to get the debt paid.........I think thay are Scottish based so probably used to bully tactics more than decent ones ggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I had dealings with that bunch of twonks 18 months ago and they would NOT allow me to pay off the debt in less than two payments so I had to dig deep and almost eat straw to get the debt paid.........I think thay are Scottish based so probably used to bully tactics more than decent ones ggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

They are based in Birkenhead Merseyside , and are actively seeking to increase their client base and take business off the usual suspects, Equita Rossendales, Ross & Robbers etc.

http://www.jacobsbailiffs.co.uk/article/about-us/2

ahhhh-haaaaaaaa I sit corrected............but I do remember the compaany being from the north 'still came across as semi gangsters....back then their baliff put a levy on my classic rover P5B and |i told him he'd get that car over some ones dead body and it wouldnt be mine:evil: he took it in good part and also my promise to pay the debt off in two lumps eventhough it did almost crush me financially to do it............still got the car and its up for sale