Evening everyone,

I received a copy of the attached from Barclaycard in response to a S78 request. The covering letter informs me they believe this to be enforceable will shortly send my current BC t & c's. The card is Morgan Stanley from 2004. I would be really grateful if some of you experienced caggers out there could take a look for me! Incidentially, Mercers have already issued a DN not giving me the required 14 days, I think they are a day or two short.

If I could mention just a few points here that caught my eye on this agreement;

1. Section 4 (tell us about your finances) seems to have been blanked by BC - there's a line running just underneath, it may be impossible to see as my scanner is not good, mind you neither is the copy BC sent.

2. Section 8 (protecting your payments) has an A circled - not by me!

3. Section 9 (protect your card) has an "instant cover" stamp.

Sorry but I have never seen on of these before. The other sections including my signature etc seem ok.

Hi,

Can you make the images a little bigger please. Even my dodgy eyesight can't cope with them

Try using photobucket (or similar) or upload them as a pdf file

fox

Hi Fox,

Sorry about that, I'll try and do pdf's. It may take a little time with my lack of computing skills!

Hi all,

Posting this again as print too small on last night's post. Could anyone advise if this is enforceable?

Received a copy of the attached from Barclaycard in response to a S78 request. The covering letter informs me they believe this to be enforceable will shortly send my current BC t & c's. The card is Morgan Stanley from 2004. I would be really grateful if some of you experienced caggers out there could take a look for me! Incidentially, Mercers have already issued a DN not giving me the required 14 days, I think they are a day or two short.

If I could mention just a few points here that caught my eye on this agreement;

1. Section 4 (tell us about your finances) seems to have been blanked by BC - there's a line running just underneath, it may be impossible to see as my scanner is not good, mind you neither is the copy BC sent.

2. Section 8 (protecting your payments) has an A circled - not by me!

3. Section 9 (protect your card) has an "instant cover" stamp.

Sorry but I have never seen on of these before. The other sections including my signature etc seem ok.

CAG 2.PDF

cag3.PDF

Apologies if I am not doing this correctly, if anyone is around could they kindly take a look at the pdf's here and advise?

I am very anxious to respond as soon as possible to Barclaycard on this.

Thanks everyone.

Can you read the small print on the copy agreement that they have sent you?

David

Thanks David,

Yes just, although very difficult in places. Why have BC blanked out my income details in section 4? could be a cut & paste job!

David,

It is better and legible but not by much!

May I ask if you have a comment regarding the content and whether the agreement is enforceable? I'm trying to come up with a suitable response.

Thanks again.

Disregarding the issue of the document being legible for a moment, could someone please advise if this agreement (application form) contains all the necessary prescribed terms and is enforceable?

Why have Barclaycard blanked my financial details out?

Thanks everyone!

If, and it's a very big if, they are part of the same document, then the prescribed terms would appear to be there.

If, and it's a very big if, they are part of the same document, then the prescribed terms would appear to be there.

Agree.

In effect it would come down to whether a judge agreed/disagreed they were part of the same doc. If he did, you would lose.

On post #1 you said you thought the DN was defective, can you post it up for a look (front & back)?

Have you also received aletter terminating the account?

A dodgy DN (being Mercers I would be amazed if not), would put a spoke in their wheel. If they have terminated as well -they have a problem.

David

Many thanks for the feedback, really appreciated although not what I wanted to hear!

The DN from Mercers was issued on 15th Jan, rec'd by me on 19th with instructions to pay by 1st Feb. Someone mentioned earlier that a DN issued by Mercers is worthless, it should be issued by the original creditor. Will post a scan of the DN tomorrow am.

As the agreement looks enforceable could anyone please advise what I should do next? I just do not have any resources to pay anything at present and getting really concerned about this.

Cashins,

Sorry forgot to mention no termination letter received yet.

Sorry forgot to mention no termination letter received yet.

If the dates you have given me are correct - it's junk.

!5th was a Friday, SAt & Sun don't count for postage, so even if it was 1st class post, (which is officially 2 days) you got it 19th. The 14 days they must allow would be the 2nd - they're a day short.

Being Mercers, they will have screwed up other things as well, so still post it, the dates are a killer however - it's junk.

Do not make them aware of this!!!

If they realised - until such time as they terminate the agreement - they are within their rights to issue another, correct one!!

David

Many thanks indeed!,

As the agreement probably looks enforceable (although still suspicious about cut & paste job!) considering the DN is a day out is there anything I can do now to mitigate the situation and prevent Barclaycard going for me through the county court.

I'm not a "wont" pay, I simply do not have anything to give as a result of a small business failure.

Did the two prints come on the same sheet of A4 paper, its not a style of agreement I've seen with MSDW before...

I think DD has looked at most types of MSDW agreements so will ask her to drop in and take a look.

If the two pieces of paper are connected then yes I feel it would be enforceable... you have to ask yourself tho would it really be laid out this way in real life? I believe the blanked out bit is where they attach a label with a barcode on it, its common across the MSDW applications that there is a section missing.

S.

Shadow, thank you for your help,

No, they sent two sheets of A4 stapled together along with the usual (I assume) covering letter.

My big worry now is if this is enforceable what do I do next as I am not in a position to pay anything at present.

As the agreement probably looks enforceable (although still suspicious about cut & paste job!) considering the DN is a day out is there anything I can do now to mitigate the situation and prevent Barclaycard going for me through the county court.

Barclaycard are not one to rush to court, it will usually go through a round of external collection companies for some time. (Despite what they try and have you believe non of the collectors have any legal powers whatsoever).

If you are not payng them they will at some point terminate the agreement. Once they have done that they are stuffed.

David

Hi,

This is clearly a cut and paste job - just like so many so-called MSDW agreements.

half of 4) is missing, 5) is missing, and so is 7). I think their latest thing is to attempt to put the prescribed terms on the front of the agreement before the signature.

I have various bits missing from mine. I have told them, and various DCAs, that I require to see the whole of this alleged agreement, not just the edited highlights. They won't provide them, so clearly the form is dodgy.

I should write back to them saying the same thing as I did. One of the DCAs sent me the same photocopy with bits missing three times. The last time I just drew arrows all over it, saying "Where's this bit?" (and this bit, and that bit), sent it straight back without a covering letter and I never heard another word from them.

You would have a right to visit their offices to inspect this document, and they are never going to want that.

It is only by deleting those missing numbers that they have room to fit in the prescribed terms.

DD

David, thanks again. As I'm not in a position to pay anything I guess I should just keep my head down and hope they terminate as soon as possible. As the DN is from Mercers is this an issue, should it not be from the original OC? Sorry about all the questions but I am trying to keep the flak away from home as much as possible as I have a wife and young daughter and I'm worried about the distress they will suffer as a result of DCA's calling all the time, doorstep visits etc. The same situation is just about to unfold with Capital 1 on a 2006 CC.

Just one final point, there probably a large number of charges on both a/c's, should I send a SAR now or leave it for a litte while.

David, thanks again. As I'm not in a position to pay anything I guess I should just keep my head down and hope they terminate as soon as possible. As the DN is from Mercers is this an issue, should it not be from the original OC? Sorry about all the questions but I am trying to keep the flak away from home as much as possible as I have a wife and young daughter and I'm worried about the distress they will suffer as a result of DCA's calling all the time, doorstep visits etc. The same situation is just about to unfold with Capital 1 on a 2006 CC.

 

Just one final point, there probably a large number of charges on both a/c's, should I send a SAR now or leave it for a litte while.

I'm afraid you need to prepare yourself for the DCA's ringing and a possible home visit, all can be countered with polite refusal to talk but they are annoying I'm afraid... a truecall will stop the phone hassle but its expensive I'm afraid.

As to your case... Thanks DD for taking a look, I completely missed number 7 not being on the form ;-) It looks like its cut&pasted severely. The default if issued by Mercers was prob sent 2nd class on a thurs or fri so should be short a couple of days to rectify at the very least, hope you've got the envelope (if ukmail its treated as second class post).... also as its from Mercers it probably doesnt have Barclays address on the letter either in which case it should fall down due to the regulations on default notices.

S.

Send the 'don't darken my doorstep' letter to any DCAs, and keep a couple of blank copies close to the door just in case anyone turns up. I've had various people saying that they would turn up, but only one actually did and he took the letter and went away never to return.

You can either refuse to speak to them on the phone and avoid them, or refuse to go through security. They will keep ringing back though. What I do is to tell them what's missing, saying I am totally reasonable, that I have heard of all sorts of dodgy agreements and while I am not saying theirs is dodgy I want to see all of it, and I have a right to do so, and I am not acknowledging I owe them anything until I see it, and would they personally not be concerned if a bank clearly didn't want them to see 'their' agreement? I am always polite and chatty unless I get an aggressive moron in which case I start asking about what training they have had on the Consumer Credit Act 1974. (Funniest response ever was from Wescot: "What's that got to do with it?")

When I joined CAG late in 2008 my phone rang non-stop. I may get one or two calls from new DCAs from time to time, but really now it's very quiet.

Hang in there.

DDx