Westcot/ IF Credit Card

[cenglish]

We just got back from holiday yesterday (it was a freebie courtesy of the in-laws, in case you think we are completely irresponsible) to a letter from Wescot re. my husbands IF Credit Card asking for f&f settlement of >£3k by 27 Jan 2009.

 

We don't have that kind of money and I'm not sure how to proceed. Having read through a few threads I was planning to send the CCA request letter to buy us a bit of time, if nothing else. Is this correct?

 

I'd be really grateful if someone can help us out. In case it is relevant we live in Scotland and also, he didn't receive a notice of assignment.

[cenglish]

We just got back from holiday yesterday (it was a freebie courtesy of the in-laws, in case you think we are completely irresponsible) to a letter from Wescot re. my husbands IF Credit Card asking for f&f settlement of >£3k by 27 Jan 2009.

 

We don't have that kind of money and I'm not sure how to proceed. Having read through a few threads I was planning to send the CCA request letter to buy us a bit of time, if nothing else. Is this correct?

 

I'd be really grateful if someone can help us out. In case it is relevant we live in Scotland and also, he didn't receive a notice of assignment.

[frettful38]

Hi cenglish,

 

Do send them a cca as soon as possible, there are templates on here to show you how to do it, if they don't come up with a valid agreement then it will be unenforceable, and if they do then there may a lot of charges that should not be on there. You can claim them back plus this will give you enough time to get as much information from this magic site as I did.

 

I am sure someone with better knowledge will let you know more, but I would suggest not to worry, and take things one step at a time like I did,

 

Good luck

[blueda]

We just got back from holiday yesterday (it was a freebie courtesy of the in-laws, in case you think we are completely irresponsible) to a letter from Wescot re. my husbands IF Credit Card asking for f&f settlement of >£3k by 27 Jan 2009.

 

We don't have that kind of money and I'm not sure how to proceed. Having read through a few threads I was planning to send the CCA request letter to buy us a bit of time, if nothing else. Is this correct?

 

I'd be really grateful if someone can help us out. In case it is relevant we live in Scotland and also, he didn't receive a notice of assignment.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/generel-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

Above is the link for the templates page, copy letter N, send a £1.00 postal order, post 1st class recorded, and dont sign the letter. i dont see any harm in asking for the CCA, How old is the debt ?

Edited January 24, 2009 by blueda
error in content.

[cenglish]

I'm not entirely sure but probably >6yrs ago the card was taken out. The last payment was made Aug 08 which I was a bit shocked by. I didn't realise it was quite so long ago just lost track. The total owed is £3.6k but there'll be quite a few charges included in that as well.

 

I'm just a bit surprised its taken this long. He hasn't received a default notice or many chasers. Which is why it came a bit out of the blue although that's not a defence I guess we just buried our head in the sand a bit too long so its our own fault.

[rory32]

Wescot have no legal powers at all. They can not just demand the full balance, in fact if a default notice has not been served they should not be dealing with the account at all.

 

I would definitely send them a CCA request. With an account of that age there may not be an agreement or the one they have may not be enforceable.

[cenglish]

Hi,

 

We've received a response today from Halifax Card Services who administer IF Cr Cards.

 

My husband has not signed this in fact it looks like a std document to which they've added his name and address.

 

They've also said in the letter that he was served with a default notice - which he wasn't - and the agreement was terminated 5th Jan 2009 making full balance payable.

 

The last paragraph says:

"Please note that the information we have provided you with is all the information we are required to provide you with under S78 of CCA. Please also note that we aer not required to provide a copy of the original signed agreement under S78 of the CCA."

 

Can anyone recommend next steps. Wescot have placed a/c on hold pending the delivery of the agreement so expect them to be back in touch soon.

 

I can post a copy of the letter and enclosures if someone can help me do it.

 

Thanks.

[cenglish]

Hi,

 

We've received a response today from Halifax Card Services who administer IF Cr Cards.

 

My husband has not signed this in fact it looks like a std document to which they've added his name and address.

 

They've also said in the letter that he was served with a default notice - which he wasn't - and the agreement was terminated 5th Jan 2009 making full balance payable.

 

The last paragraph says:

"Please note that the information we have provided you with is all the information we are required to provide you with under S78 of CCA. Please also note that we aer not required to provide a copy of the original signed agreement under S78 of the CCA."

 

Can anyone recommend next steps. Wescot have placed a/c on hold pending the delivery of the agreement so expect them to be back in touch soon.

 

I can post a copy of the letter and enclosures if someone can help me do it.

 

Thanks.

[cenglish]

I already have a thread set up re this but I'm not sure if it's in the right place and I'd appreciate some help.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dealing-debt-scotland/179807-westcot-if-credit-card.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/179808-westcot-if-credit-card.html

 

My husband has an IF cr card which has been passed to Wescot for full & final settlement. We sent a CCA request and w e've received a response today from Halifax Card Services who administer IF Cr Cards.

 

My husband has not signed this in fact it looks like a std document to which they've added his name and address.

 

They've also said in the letter that he was served with a default notice - which he wasn't - and the agreement was terminated 5th Jan 2009 making full balance payable.

 

The last paragraph says:

"Please note that the information we have provided you with is all the information we are required to provide you with under S78 of CCA. Please also note that we aer not required to provide a copy of the original signed agreement under S78 of the CCA."

 

Can anyone recommend next steps. Wescot have placed a/c on hold pending the delivery of the agreement so expect them to be back in touch soon.

 

I can post a copy of the letter and enclosures if someone can help me do it.

 

Thanks.

Edited February 26, 2009 by cenglish
Links to existing threads

[clemma]

Take a look at this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html where you will find a guide on photobucket. You can scan your documents to photobucket and then post on here.

[cenglish]

Here's the doc's from today in PDF format

CCA IFCard0001.pdf

[cenglish]

Here's the doc's from today in PDF

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6537&d=1235660584

[cenglish]

Here's the docs from today in PDF

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6537&d=1235660584

[saintly_1]

Threads merged

[clemma]

They have sent you copies of old and new terms and conditions. However, there is nothing on them that links them to you or your account. Send off the dispute letter:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account is now in default as of **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

It is true that they can omit your signature and details - but if they want you to pay, why didn't they send it........maybe they haven't got one. You can either send the letter above OR:

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed. Additionally i require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker.

 

(If you have any other reasons why you need the agreement such as misselling of PPI Add it here)

 

Obviously if the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances.

 

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides.

 

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date. ( Give 21 days to respond)

 

 

Regards

 

(letter taken from this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

[maroondevo52]

Threads merged.

 

cenglish, please stick to the one thread on this subject.

 

Thank you.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[cenglish]

Can I use this arguement if its a Scottish case?

[madasamuppet]

You can't use the CPR rules in scotland but I think there is other legislation that you might be able to use. Rory32 is the one to tell which laws to state, he may be along later to help.

[cenglish]

Can anyone help?

[clemma]

I will give rory a nudge for you to see if he will take a look.

[IdaInFife]

need a bit more info ,

 

this looks like online application.

 

Did you apply online?

 

How old is this card? what year did you apply?

 

Ida x

[cenglish]

Hi.

 

Originally, it was an online app but when chip & pin was introduced it transferred from being IF to HBOS card services etc. because IF didn't have the tech capability to cope with c&p.

 

The card was taken out at least 6/7 years ago and the switch between IF and HBOS would have been about 3/4 years ago. I can get more precise details but I'll need to check back paperwork.

 

As it stands, Wescot closed the account and its now been passed to a company called iQor who seem a bit more agressive.

[IdaInFife]

it's best if you can get a better date because that will make a difference,

 

if you can find out if it was prior to dec 2004

 

Ida x

[cenglish]

Ok, it was August 2003 when he originally took out his card and it was on an online app.

 

I've just found correspondence from 2005 which says the original agreement will end on 5/7/05 for the chip & pin issue mentioned in earlier post. That was when the new Halifax Card Services agreement would come into effect but the letter actually says "please sign & return the CCA by 1/07/05"

 

I can scan and post a copy of this if it would help?

[IdaInFife]

that's good cause they still would have needed a signed agreement at that time.

 

ok i itake it there is no signature on it? just in ase you deleted it.

 

I would send them,

 

Dear Sirs,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

My request remains outstanding. An unsigned credit agreement with no personal details on it, like the one you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. A blank agreement neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until xx/xx.2008 (12+2 working days after the request was made) to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 + 2 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation.

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

I expect you to write to me confimring that the account has been closed and no further action will be taken.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

 

Ida x