Hi all,

Wondered if anyone could help as this has been puzzling me for a while.

I had a query regarding when a PCN from a local authority/council reaches charge certificate stage and they ask for whatever payment it is say that if it is not paid by xxx they will proceed to issue an order for recovery.

I understand this comes with an option to submit a witness statement saying that you did not receive the initial Notice to owner and can possibly have the fine brought back down to its actual cost if you are guilty of the offense...

I don't understand how that would work if one was so select they didn't receive an Notice to Owner?

What proof would someone have that they did not receive it and couldn't the council just shrug it off and reject it immediately?

Then forcing bailiffs on you or something more serious?

On another note my main query was my partners PCN.

She never received one on her vehicle

but all of a sudden a Notice to Owner comes through the door with no actual proof her vehicle was there. No pictures or anything from the Royal Borough of Greenwich.

Just a fine for £130 stating it was her,

She never parks anywhere she shouldn't and is a massive stickler for this sort of stuff.

Wondered if anyone could advice on my next steps as I am handling this for her.

Sorry for the essay but any help would be appreciated...

Kind Regards

Are we talking about two PCN's - one at the Order for Recovery stage and one at the NtO stage, or is it just one PCN

If it's two, start separate threads for each, so there's less confusion

Hello,

Not sure how to edit this one so I have created a new one for the PCN at Charge Certificate stage.

Kind Regards

She doesn't know if she was there? Surely she must remember if she'd been to that spot on that day. The vehicle must have been there for them to record the details. If you seriously doubt the contravention, you can ask the council if you can see their photographs, but that in itself isn't an appeal. You'd be best off asking verbally and then writing in an appeal if you think you have grounds.

She is from around the area but literally has no recollection of being there as its just not something she'd do at all.

Well I will appeal on the fact that not only did she not receive a PCN on the vehicle itself but that they then send through an NtO with no photographic proof.

Regards

IIRC, they aren't obliged to send photographic evidence. They MAY be required to provide it if you request it. Other contributors will be able to confirm.

Also, you don't say where the offence took place, or whether there is any information on any notices you have received that the are may have been monitored by CCTV or ANPR cameras. You wouldn't get a PCN on the car then.

To be frank, the information you are providing is causing confusion because it is incomplete.

Yes, thanks for the advice thus far.

The letter I received was an Notice to Owner, and was the first my partner and I heard of this PCN asking for £130, Stating we did not pay the previous fine in time (the one they must have stuck to the windscreen) which my partner did not receive, Whether someone had taken it off themselves I do not know, But she did not receive one, So when she receives an NtO with 0 photographic evidence after not even receiving a PCN on her windscreen it did leave her slightly baffled.

But its fine, I guess I will have to appeal that she didn't receive the initial one and didn't have the chance to pay the discounted fee and then dispute no photographic evidence.

I guess all you can do is appeal with whatever detail you can provide, stating that you cannot recall being in that area, and you need evidence of the offence, but I don't honestly know if that will hold up.

The PCN MAY have been sent by post (rather than on the car) if it was a camera offence, but you seemingly didn't get that either. I don't know what proportion of things get lost in the post, but it never seems to be the junk mail, does it?!

Good luck

Nothing was lost in the post, This is the first she had heard of this PCN at all and it came in at £130 NtO so obviously a PCN was issued initially and she didn't receive that on the car itself.

Not sure what you mean by junk mail but ok.

Thanks.

All I meant was it always seems to be important mail that gets lost, rather than the crap you don't need!

Is there anything on the NtO that states it was a PCN stuck to the car (and removed by persons unknown at the scene), rather than a post-camera postal PCN (which may have got lost in the post)?

Oh right, Yep you got that right mate

I'm at work at the moment and the letter is at home but from what I remember it stated "we issued a PCN on xxx date for xxx contravention and it was not paid. You now have xxx to pay xxx amount before we proceed" etc...

And it mentioned it was due to parking in a business/ resident permit holders spot if I remember the contravention code...

Hmmm, I guess "issue" of a PCN *could* mean by post, but the circumstances do make it sound like it was a screen ticket.

I don't know what the success rate is for people appealing on the basis of a screen PCN having been removed, hence not paid. But if you genuinely believe you didn't park there, requesting any photo evidence would be a way to go.

Bear in mind I am talking as an interested observer, not an expert, qualified or otherwise. Others on the site I'm sure will advise if I am talking nonsense.

Yep, I don't have many options at the moment so that sounds like the most sensible route

I appreciate the help/advice nonetheless.

Its pretty sneaky really, They take the PCN off your windscreen and put it on their own to hopefully fool inspectors passing by

Look, just phone the council. Ask if the PCN was served on the vehicle or by post. Ask if they would email you the photos, and go from there.

If they know how the PCN was served there's no point at all in appealing the PCN on the basis that you didn't receive it - you can use that as a reason to ask for the discount to be reinstated (at their discretion, that is) but not to ask for cancellation.

... unless your partner has EVIDENCE to show she could not have been parked in that area, suggesting that they might have got the reg wrong, or her number has been cloned. Only then might it be worth a more robust challenge.

They won't entertain evidence that the vehicle wasn't there. The CEO should have recorded, if not actually photographed, the registration, make and model and possibly other details. That's the evidence they will go by. So again I say to the OP, call the council and ask to see the photos.