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    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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Credit Files and DCA's


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Hello again

 

Well over the Easter I had a letter from Robway saying they were chasing a debt. I know for an absolute fact that any debts that I did have were last acknowleged/paid in 2004. I sent them a letter that Brigadier wrote for me in a previous thread i.e.

 

The Compliance Manager

Debt Collection

 

Dear Sir Or Madam.

 

With reference to your letter dated xxxxx regarding debts you allege are

owed by me, take note I do not acknowledge any debt to you or any company

you may claim to represent.

Furthermore I have by personal research and advice received concluded that

any such alleged debts are Statute Barred therefore I will not be making any

payment or offer of payment now or in the future.

 

You will therefore cease to process any data relating to me and remove it

from all your records how so ever held.

I am sure I do not have to remind you of the OFT Guidance On Debt Collection

2003/2011 and the pursute of Statute Barred debt an in particular the section

regarding the sale of statute barred debt without informaing the purchaser of the

status of the debt.

Send it recorded delivery.

 

Recently I received a reply from Robway and could do with your advice on what to do next please.

 

Dear J Blogs

 

Further to your recent letter, the contents of which are noted, we write to clarify our position.

 

Even if you were to demonstrate that this debt is statute barred it does not mean that the debt does not legally exist or that we are not entitled to ask for payment.

 

However we are prepared to offer you a substantial reduction with very favourable terms to clear your liability once and for all, and ask that you contact us to discuss this further.

 

 

Any advice folks? By the way, the letter did no appear to be a computer generated letter.

 

Thanks to you all.

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The diccount shows it is SB Soooooooo

 

Dear Pratt,

Ref:xxxxxxxxx

 

I write inregard to your letter regarding the alleged debt for xxxxxx as stated

the debt is statute barred and I will not be making ant payment.

The OFT Guidance is clear and any further contact from you WILL be reported

to the OFT as harassment and I will take any neccessary action if you continue

this matter.

Furthermore it is not for me to prove this alleged debt is statute barred.

 

I await your confirmation that this matter is now close.

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Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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What utter fools!

 

Robbersway just want to have the last word, like the little children they are, how ridiculously immature, I wouldn't hesitate to send the OFT a copy of that puerile missive, as for replying back to them, I (personally) wouldn't, and when they (or if) wrote again asking for payment, I would string them up, once they are informed it is SB they are unable to pursue it further, a second letter begging for payment would be all the proof you would need, and another nail in their coffin. What imbeciles, seriously? I would love them to start chasing me for one of my debts, then I would know I could rest on my laurels and sleep easy knowing the most inept incompetent circus outfit has the lemon.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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What utter fools!

 

Robbersway just want to have the last word, like the little children they are, how ridiculously immature, I wouldn't hesitate to send the OFT a copy of that puerile missive, as for replying back to them, I (personally) wouldn't, and when they (or if) wrote again asking for payment, I would string them up, once they are informed it is SB they are unable to pursue it further, a second letter begging for payment would be all the proof you would need, and another nail in their coffin. What imbeciles, seriously? I would love them to start chasing me for one of my debts, then I would know I could rest on my laurels and sleep easy knowing the most inept incompetent circus outfit has the lemon.

Hi Boo,

I refrained from using your superb put down response, perhaps I should have used it:madgrin:

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I refrained from using your superb put down response, perhaps I should have used it:madgrin:

 

I had to water it down somewhat...:madgrin:

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Oh thanks so much Brigadier and Bazooka. So what shall I do?

 

1. Write as the Brigadier suggested or

2. Complain to OFT and send them a copy of Robway's letter (is there a template for complaining to OFT) or

3. Should I do nothing and wait to see if they send a second begging letter then complain and send them both off to OFT.

 

Your advice is invaulable, thanks so much.

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Oh thanks so much Brigadier and Bazooka. So what shall I do?

 

1. Write as the Brigadier suggested or

2. Complain to OFT and send them a copy of Robway's letter (is there a template for complaining to OFT) or

3. Should I do nothing and wait to see if they send a second begging letter then complain and send them both off to OFT.

 

Your advice is invaulable, thanks so much.

 

do steps 1 and 2 also maybe complain to the ombudsman too an FSA complaint costs them money and they wont like that

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Hi Brigadier

 

I have been on the OFT website and can only see a Complaint Form link for advisers or third party organisations. Is there a link for a Complain Form that I would be able to complete?

 

Thanks

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Hi if you e-mail the OFT they will send you a form or you can type

out your complaint but it must be in a logical order of events leading

to your reason for the complaint.

Alternatively phone and get a form.

Please note the OFT does no respond to individuals but

a data is logged for use on licence renewalls etc.

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Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Hi Brigadier

 

Many thanks for all your help. Is it difficult to involve the Ombudsman?

 

What I am considering doing is ignoring their recent letter, see if they write again (sure the will) then post on here to update you of the contents, then take them to town. What do you think?

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FOS will expect you to have exhausted all the

complaints procedures of the creditor before

putting a case to them.

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Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Robbers Way are really unable to push the stop button on their threatomatic machine - I fully believe it does not have this facility anyway.

 

The deluded debt industry 'believe' that they have a 'moral duty' to remind people that the alleged debt still exists and still needs to be paid - by offering a huge discount they are proving that they are hopeful you will fall for their stance and pay up out of guilt.

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OK I understand now. So in your opinion, shall I respond now with your letter or wait?

Personally I would send the letter now otherwise this will go round in circles.

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  • 4 weeks later...
I think that there is a connection between people checking credit records and then receiving letters from DCA's out of the blue. It is possible that the credit reference agencies send out alert warnings that the credit record has been checked. The DCA's are then able to check these with their records and send chaser letters to the new address.

 

I don't know this for sure, but it is one heck of a coincidence that people get 'out of the blue' debt chasers shortly after checking credit records.

 

Exactly the same thing is happening to me. After checking my file with credit expert I have received three different DCA letters from different companies. Coincidence ? Hmmmm

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Let's get some sense into the Checking personal CRA files

is not seen by anyone but bthe data subject, also the credit

file exists if you check it or not, it's one of the safest and

cheapest ways to make sure you are not caught out by default enrties,

keeping check on the dates when accounts are at or very near statute barred.

 

Most of these ''coincidences'' are because if a debt purchaser/DCA has acounts

in and individuals name that are of the above status they will check to see if there

is any chance of collecting the debt.

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I agree there the mobile phone companies are

flogging data to anyone willing to pay.!!

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I find it odd that callcredit are both a debt collector and also a credit reference agency

 

 

???? explain please.

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http://www.callcredit.co.uk/

 

it seems they do debt collection then have a free credit reference agency my sister has a debt collection letter from them.

 

you cannot actually access noggle or whatever its called until you have proved who you are

 

it would seem they could have the ability to collect the data of who you are and then cross reference it with any debts on their database,

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