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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Welcome Finance - This company needs to be banned.


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welcomes was to high a price

i do have standards

 

cattles/welcome have themselves to blame for there demise,

just like the banks, loads of money, bigger bonus, nice share returns year on year, then they got greedy.

cut corners and greater risks

 

DIRECTORS CASHED IN AND LEGGED IT, THEY SAW IT COMMING

 

THE BANKS/CATTLES GOT FAT ON PEOPLES MISSFORTUNE SO I HAVE NO SYMPATHY

 

THEY DESEARVE ALL THEY GET FOR ALL THE LIVES THEY HAVE TRASHED

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OK postggj/Stewie - you reading this the same as me?

 

Are they basically saying the calculate interest daily but do not include the amount of credit or the acceptance fee when they do this?

 

Danuk - are you 100% sure they have charged interest on your acceptance fee - this is the first agreement I have seen when it seems to have been written in clear terms they should not be charging interest.

 

If they are then I think you have them cut and dry

 

So if i have this clause on my agreement its unenforeacble?:lol:

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andie

 

I dont know if they charged me interest on acceptance fee, can you tell from the figures.

 

also if you press ctrl + you can zoom into the scan if helps

 

 

Dan there's no way to know from this - you will have to SAR them to get a statement of price that will make it clear.

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andie

 

I dont know if they charged me interest on acceptance fee, can you tell from the figures.

 

also if you press ctrl + you can zoom into the scan if helps

 

Hi Dan,

 

Do you still have the loan pack they supplied you with when taking out the loan?

 

Another thing, when you took out the loan, was it over the phone or did you have to go into the office? From what I have heard, Welcome are not allowed to do secured loans over the phone.

And yet another piece of the puzzel, they have to supply you with a loan pack with all the information for you to read without being pressure sold. I asked for my loan pack a year down the line

 

Stewie

I need to change my avatar..But cant find a good replacement.

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Finally got a reply from welcome after 5 letters and so many emails.... Am I been silly or are they digging their own grave further on the reply as it very much contradicts the statement of price. Any opinions would be great...

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...entofprice.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/prudent01/contract.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...comeReply1.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...comereply2.jpg

Edited by prudent
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Been trying to fight Welcome with just letters and phone calls for 2 years now but thought it was just us having a problem with them until I found this forum. Mindblowing information on here and realised we are far from alone in our battle and would never have got anywhere with our little letters and calls.

 

I have read every post on here with much interest and shock so much so that I had it all scrambled in my head.

 

Slowly getting there now and will be busy tomorow drafting out my letters, with many many thanks to all of you, especially to the people that have replied to me and helped me.

 

Dont think some of you realise what you have done for us small individuals that plod along paying our bills but moaning because we know they are not right but have not known how to deal with them.

 

Very big thanks to you all - will be celebrating with you when hopefully

WELCOME has WELGONE !

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Is the agreement posted up? Lets have a peek?

 

How many people have the statement of price? This will show up everything. I got mine by hmmm "different ways" I to can throw a tantrum now and then.

 

Let me check mine, its pretty recent Dec 2007. It does state in clear wording, interest calculated on acceptance fee. I just need to find out how much they are allowed to charge. I know its a % if the loan.

 

I just want to make mention, if the loan is un-enforceable. It MAY still remain on a credit file as an outstanding debt. They just cannot act on it.

Something worth keeping in mind. I have not heard of any people challenging the credit file about it.

 

Stewie

 

post 1313 - first i've seen with it worded like that - look at the paragraph under where the interest is calculated.

 

And if you are disputing the account with them i.e. because of it's unenforceability - if they have bot already placed this on your credit file i.e. if you are up to date and current with your payments and they have bot defaulted they should not be placing anything on your credit file regarding this.

As long as you have informed them in writing of your reasons for dispute that is not just canx your DD and ignoring them.

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So if i have this clause on my agreement its unenforeacble?:lol:

 

 

every agreement is different - i would have to look at it.

 

and it's not the clause that makes it unenforcable - it was just interesting reading and thats why i commented on it.

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Hello everyone

I have been following this thread for the past few days as I have loans with welcome and like a few people on here I`m confused over my agreements and the statement of price.I`m trying to work it out myself without bothering anyone but am useless at things like this.If I scan them could someone please have a look at them when they have time please.Sorry for asking but there`s a few people on here who know what to look for,thanks.

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every agreement is different - i would have to look at it.

 

and it's not the clause that makes it unenforcable - it was just interesting reading and thats why i commented on it.

 

My head hurts trying to read that :D

 

Ive never seen a welcome loan in that format. How old is it? I cant see the date stamp

 

Stewie

I need to change my avatar..But cant find a good replacement.

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Finally got a reply from welcome after 5 letters and so many emails.... Am I been silly or are they digging their own grave further on the reply as it very much contradicts the statement of price. Any opinions would be great...

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w.../Agreement.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...entofprice.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...comereply1.jpg

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

 

 

I'd take these down and repost in a while once you have blocked your details better. :)

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can you type what the 2nd paragraph says under the interst charge - it says somethign about acceptance fee but I can't quite see it.

 

 

It looks like they are adding acceptance fee and stating they are allowed to charge interest on the acceptance fee.

I need to change my avatar..But cant find a good replacement.

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Andi

 

i know im as blind as a bat, but did i blink and miss something, am i supposed to be looking for something that should be there, but isnt ??, as well as the thing missing from box in the bottom right corner ?

 

b-o-2

ANYBODY WHO NEEDS INFO ON YOUR LEHMANS MORTGAGE

either SPML/PML/LMC/SPPL; the following are DIRECT tel#s,

of the investigating & prosecuting organisations: DONOT say you are from CAG-only directly affected or a concerned citizen.

 

1. Companies House: Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

2. CH : Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia(MD) for SPML/PML) @ 02920 380 643

3. CH : Mark Youde(accounts compliance) @ 02920 380 955

 

4. Companies Investigation Branch(CIB) : Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108

(part of the Insolvency Service) investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

5. CIB : Jeremy Pilcher('unofficial'-consumer/company lawyer) : @ 0207 637 6231

__________________

File YOUR 'Companies Investigation Branch'- CIB complaint online NOW!!!!

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/complaintformcib.htm

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Finally got a reply from welcome after 5 letters and so many emails.... Am I been silly or are they digging their own grave further on the reply as it very much contradicts the statement of price. Any opinions would be great...

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w.../Agreement.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...entofprice.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...comereply1.jpg

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

 

 

perhaps ask them to explain how a £75 fee which is broken down to 36 months x £3.83 a month, has not had interest applied when my calculator says equals £137.88.

 

They are spinning you a yarn hoping you go away.

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stewie/andie

 

okay will have to "Subject Access Request them to get a statement of price" whatever this means?????

 

I dont have any other info pack and I applied through the post.

 

also going around to member "prudent" for a beer she sounds hot(pm me a piccy if poss), get those docs taken down that biro did not work

 

cheers

anyhowz

Take Control

! Use excel to document all your income and outgoings !

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Andi

 

i know im as blind as a bat, but did i blink and miss something, am i supposed to be looking for something that should be there, but isnt ??, as well as the thing missing from box in the bottom right corner ?

 

b-o-2

 

 

look at the date on your statement of price - notice anything?

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