From HSBC regarding test case

[jowalshy]

For anyone who is interested, I found this on HSBC's website:-

 

 

FSA: HSBC Bank UK

[freakyleaky]

That doesn't make for pleasant reading!

I am not sure if the banks have a right to put all cases on hold! I would have thought it is up to the judge in each case! The banks will have to apply for a stay on each individual case and the claimant will have the right to appeal against it.

I think what is needed is a good argument against any application for a stay where the basis of asking for the stay is that the defendant is waiting for the result of the test case! ( iknow what I mean, I just hope others do)

Any thoughts people?

[jowalshy]

I would probably argue about the time that they have wasted so far. Whether that is a valid argument I don't know. I know PD's claim started just after mine (5 months ago) and her court date is not until September.

[freakyleaky]

I agree with the wated time so far. Also the fact that they have settled every case before court so far.

 

What we need is someone to draft an appeal against a stay. Someone who is good with letter writing and knows the legal side of things. I susspect someone at the top is already working on it. I hope so!

Where is lattie? She is a genius at letter writing and putting things in order.

I suppose what we need is to see the wording the banks will use in their application for a stay before anyone can draft an appeal!

[Audreygreeneyes]

I applied to mcol on the 03.04.07 and my court date is the 07.08.07...... DG have failed to submit what the court.... this was 3 days before this ruling came out... I am asking for it to be struck under the abuse of process and to alow a stay in my case would be rewarding them for blatantly ignoring court directions and punishing me for adhearing tothem....

 

having just trawled through the waiver it is in the first instance for 2 months only. I am writing to them stating that it cannot be applied retrospectively......

 

typical 10 days before my court hearing....................lol

[freakyleaky]

Auburn, I really think your case is to far along the process to be affected!

Got everything crossed for you!

[lateralus]

i'm here fl, but i just don't know what to say - i do think this is looking at hsbc's babble - in other words - more scare tactics and their propadanda.

 

i think what will happen - if you haven't yet filed your case - you'll get a letter in response to your prelim or lba saying everything is on hold - sorry, must wait (up to a year!!! that's unbelievable)

so my only suggestion if people get that letter is to keep a very good list of all charges.

 

i, too, think that some cases are too far along and the judges won't grant a stay - those, i think, will continue to conclusion - although it is possible that even at a judgment stage, i think dg could ask for a stay, it's a wait and see. this is important and disheartening, i know, but i do believe that they can ask for a stay even after a judgment has been made against them. it just depends how this plays out.

 

i'm not used to taking the gloom and doom approach but in this instance - i think forewarned is best.

 

where's crusher when we need him - on holiday - the swine!

 

logically (or maybe it's just wishful thinking) i would hope they would play out all the cases passed the defence stage but i'm beginning to wonder.

 

but, until otherwise told, i'd continue with meeting all deadlines, court dates, etc.

 

 

 

 

as for those who haven't yet filed in court - it's two options - either go ahead and file and be prepared to wait a long time to see the court filing fee again or don't file yet and wait a couple of days to see how this plays out.

[jowalshy]

I think the best way to go, as FL says, is to see what HSBC's letter regarding the stay will be like and then go from there.

[lateralus]

agreed!

[freakyleaky]

I suspect a bit of propoganda in that link.

OK, the way I see it, if you are a new claimant, you send your prelim letter to the bank, they reply and say "sorry you will have to wait until the result of the test case before we respond".

Ok then, what if new claimant says " no I am not prepared to wait and I am filing a claim with the court".

1. Will the claim be filed as usual with the court?

2. Will the bank have to then apply for a stay?

3. will the claimant still have the right to appeal?

4. Will the local judge still have the final say as to whether the case is stayed and are all local judges likely to grant the stay?

[lateralus]

i'm thinking the courts might just say - hang on a minute - who are you to tell us to grant a stay in all these cases - much as they are snowed under, i think the judge likes to be in control and wouldn't take kindly to a bank asking for a stay pending the outcome of a test case when the self and same banks have been doing everything not to come to court - especially in cases where - like pd's it's been going on for so long and they have never responded and now they want a stay??????

 

any judges reading tonight?

 

they are playing you for fools - again the bank gets to stall - now it's a big time stall - and in cases where the courts and the claimants have been moving things forward - how utterly unfair to apply for a stay at this late stage.

let's hope for some common sense judging.

 

i, for one, would like to see them draw a line in the sand - maybe at the defence stage - and say all cases already defended will be seen through.

but i doubt it will happen.

[Castlebest]

So whats the problem ?

 

Just read it and all they are saying is what we thought they would say.

 

All new complaints will get an acknowledgement telling you they wont do anything untill the test case is resolved, Complaints to the FSA will also be put on hold unless its a case of severe hardship (I suspect this will be true of the OFT too)

 

Any legal proceedings will have a stay applied for (up to the judge if they grant it but I think they will on new cases unless you have a good reason for them not to).

 

Offers that have been made are still good.

 

Dont forget this only applies to personal current accounts so nothing else will be affected.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/107951-oft-test-case-what.html

 

pete

[pinkduchess]

I would probably argue about the time that they have wasted so far. Whether that is a valid argument I don't know. I know PD's claim started just after mine (5 months ago) and her court date is not until September.

 

October!!

 

until i hear differently just keeping my fingers crossed that they'll let mine (and others that are this far along) go ahead.

[Catlover64]

So whats the problem ?

 

Just read it and all they are saying is what we thought they would say.

 

All new complaints will get an acknowledgement telling you they wont do anything untill the test case is resolved, Complaints to the FSA will also be put on hold unless its a case of severe hardship (I suspect this will be true of the OFT too)

 

Any legal proceedings will have a stay applied for (up to the judge if they grant it but I think they will on new cases unless you have a good reason for them not to).

 

Offers that have been made are still good.

 

Dont forget this only applies to personal current accounts so nothing else will be affected.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/107951-oft-test-case-what.html

 

pete

 

I have to say I agree with Pete. There's no change to what's already been said, and we suspected the banks may well ask for a stay.. If they do, we can always ask for it to be lifted. All we need is a good argument as to why the case should go ahead....

[jailbird]

Hi everyone

 

I'm gutted. I am at the stage of waiting to hear from the Court as to what the Judge is going to do ( I was told last week to ring today to see what he has decided). AQ was due back 11th June....I sent mine back 8th June but of course DG did not.

 

Pete said they will consider cases of real hardship..........well the bank has been taking money from my benefits. Does that count as hardship ?

 

Hope someone can answer this.

 

Chris

 

aka Jailbird:(

[Yorkie41]

Hi

 

As my case- and many others, I guess - is re. a business rather than a personal account, this latest development does not apply. I have a court date set for 25 Sept., I am assuming that this will go ahead or I will receive an offer from HSBC prior to the hearing. Has anyone any thoughts or info. on this - really would appreciate some advice.

 

Many thanks,

Yorkie41

[jailbird]

Have just had a email from another web site and it is saying the following ;

 

Some of our member have already contacted their court and been informed it business as normal.

 

What you need to know and do!

 

 

1. If you’re a claim filled at the court then you must continue as normal. I.e. if you just received the Allocation questionnaire you must submit this back to the court in the given time limits. If you have received court orders to produce documents or submit further information. You must do so within those time limits.

 

2. if your not filled a claim at court yet, then you must follow the procedure ie. Get your statements, send the Letter before action and if you don’t get a refund within 14 days on the 15th day you must the issue your claim at your local county court.

 

3. Don’t sit and wait as the limitations act is still running and every day month you delay in filling you claim is a day/month less you can claim back.

 

If the banks send you a letter saying that all claim are on hold and the FSA have given them a waiver not to deal with complaints ignore it. you not complaining your taking legal action. Big difference.

 

4. If the bank does not comply with your Data Protection request (subject access request) and use the FSA wavier as a reason, ignore this The FSA does not have the legal standing to give bank permission not to comply with ACT of Parliament.

I,e banks still have to comply and if they fail to do so report them to the Information commissioner.

 

5. If you used the finical ombudsman route this is now useless as they have agreed to not continue with claims until the test case is heard.

 

Therefore you need to get a claim filled at your local county court or as above each day/month delay is costing you money as the Limitations act will still apply.

 

 

6. Business Claims you need to carry on as normal as the claims do not run using the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 and therefore are not Part of the OFT test Case.

 

 

BIG NEWS

 

People in receipt of Benefits can continue to claim the money taken from their benefits we have new POC on the site for this and yes xxxxx was the first to have these up and ready for you to use.

 

The reason you can claim these banks is because the benefit that you are receiving is deemed as alienable under the:

 

Social Security Administration Act 1992 (s.187) which states as follows:

 

187.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of or charge on—

(a) benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

(b) any income-related benefit; or

© child benefit,

and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bankruptcy of a beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors.

 

 

In short the above means banks cannot take money from your benefit payments to cover their penalty charges.

 

 

 

Thought this may be of some use.

 

I have just called the Court and been told to call back in 30 mins to find out if the Judge has looked at my paperwork. Will update when I have spoken to them.

 

JB:(

[freakyleaky]

Good find JB! Where did that come from?

[freakyleaky]

Just had a thought. (I know, not like me)

 

Right, if you complain to the bank about charges and they reply saying that they won't take action regarding charges until the outcome of the test case, surely they should not continue to apply these charges until a decision is made as to the legality of them?

[freakyleaky]

First half year profits for hsbc just announced.........6.99 billion!!!

[johnnymitch]

Oh, Freaky, - you stirrer!

 

I reckon you've got a point, though - if our claims are frozen until the ruling/judgement on the test case, how come they can still go on charging exorbitant 'unlawful' fees?? This is double standards surely?

 

Does anyone think that a petition on the Downing Street website might bear fruit, asking for FSA to withdraw the waiver so that claims can still proceed. This is all one-sided at the moment, the banks must be laughing their heads off, and poor Joe Public is stuffed again.

 

HSBC also seems to be saying that after a ruling, they will still only refund those that have complained, not everybody that they have fleeced as a matter of course - these banks think they are above the law, it's time this country showed them that they are not!

 

I take it that we can claim interest at 8% all the way to the test case result, or will that privelege be withdrawn too?

 

So many imponderables at the moment, I'm going to wait for Latty to spark I think, FL

[freakyleaky]

Well that is more or less what I was asking. As for the 8% that is awarded at the discression of the judge in the event of a claim being won so no change on that.

[freakyleaky]

test case is to determine whether charges are lawful and banks can ignore complaints until the outcome. (no wonder so many banks agreed to take part)

So banks surely can't continue to levy the same charges in the meantime?

[Castlebest]

Has anyone told the banks that

 

pete

[johnnymitch]

High Time somebody did, Pete.

 

Also, FSA should be dead in the water after this debacle!