Chalkitup v DCA's

[PriorityOne]

Help Please…

 

Following on and updating last post ….

 

CCA request 12+2 days deadline was 17/08/07 for CBS Transcom/MBNA.

**CBS Transcom telephoned me on Wednesday and when I asked why they were calling as there is a CCA request in operation I was asked by the CBS chap “What is a CCA request and can I explain it to him”!**

 

Not your job to explain to to him. He should have known about it before pursuing you for payment.

-------------------

 

CCA request 12+2 days deadline was 17/08/07 for 1st Credit/CITI.

Regarding the fact that approx three weeks ago 1st Credit contacted CCCS direct and arranged for my monthly payment to CITI card to go to 1st Credit each month without my knowledge ..... I HAVE NOW contacted CCCS and reversed the instruction ….. so I am now paying CITI card direct from CCCS again.

 

Excellent.

--------------------

 

CCA request 12+2 days deadline was 20/08/07 for Unidebt Collections/Nat West overdraft on business account.

 

I read on CAG site that overdrafts come under CCA guidelines because interest in payable so I sent CCA request for my National Westminster business account overdraft (Sole trader hence - Chalkitup trading as XXXX) to Unidebt Collections who are part of Nat West group. Had reply today from Credit Management Services Nat West saying …

**

There is no CCA regulated agreement for the above account, the overdraft facility would have been confirmed by way of letter which does not require a customers signature. However, no authorised overdraft would have been sanctioned for the above type of account as Step Accounts are only to be operated with a credit balance.

 

Not totally sure on this one, but think it falls under a CCA request, section 74... If that's the case, then you may need to send another one, stipulating "section 74" in your request.... as they may be trying to wriggle out of their obligations by way of a technicality. Rory32 should be able to tell you for certain.

We are required to give you a Statement of Account. Therefore, please find below all the relevant details that are compulsory under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Ah yes, sounds like they might be...

Debit balance --- £XXXXXX

Interest Rate --- X% + base rate

Accrued interest from 3 June 2007 --- £XXXX

There are no charges accruing on the account.

**

 

NOW THIS IS WHERE I REQUIRE HELP …. I feel that yet again Nat West are trying to confuse me OR they have the wrong information themselves!!! The letter from them is signed (absolutely unreadable) and under the signature it reads Recovery Manager. No name is given in print and as previously stated the letter is from Credit Management Services.

 

Sounds like an in-house DCA job, which basically reads as an attempt to get you to believe that the matter has escalated to a higher level. In reality, it's often just a different bunch of muppets on another floor.

 

Help Please:-

1) What is a Step Account? I have no idea... it might be best to ring NatWest with a general query... just saying that you are interested in one and want more info, etc.... then they'll tell you.

 

2) I am an ordinary member of the public and by their sentence “However, no authorised overdraft would have been sanctioned for the above type of account as Step Accounts are only to be operated with a credit balance” Sounds as if they are referring to a debit card account... which has to have cash in it before a transaction will be authorised. I take that to mean they would not give an overdraft on that account …. So how come since 2001 I have had an overdraft in place on that account which every year I have paid a FEE to renew? Well, they can't have it both ways. If the account allowed you an overdraft, then it wouldn't be a debit account. There would have to be some arrangement in place for you to have access to that money... in which case, a CCA request (section 74 ?) should apply.

 

3) The figure they give as Interest Rate is infact 1% lower than I have been / am paying. Another query, should they provide you with a satisfactory answer to your (new) CCA request.

 

4) Surely this letter from them does not constitute their full obligations under a CCA request … Does it? And who is correct regarding Sole Trader business account overdrafts … are they or are they not covered by CCA guidelines?

2 options. Either they don't know what they're on about.... or are hoping that you don't. Check the CCA query with Rory 32... if he confirms what I've said, then it's the first one.

 

------------------------

 

S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)

I have also today received paperwork in answer to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request to Nat West. Incidentally after all the past hassle they posted it in normal post to my P.O.Box after all.

 

All they have sent me are copies of my statements from 08/2001 to date.

 

5) Again surely just copies of statements does not represent their full obligations under a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). Should I not have transcripts to telephone calls and copies of letters received from them plus all notes made on my account? Yes, you should. All data is all data. Sound as if they have only partially complied.

 

6) Also they are still charging interest at a higher rate than my DMP monthly payment to them ….. what can I do about it? Pointless paying a DMP really as I can never clear the debt, infact it grows more every month! I would have thought that your DMP would have sorted this out for you... otherwise what's the point of going through a DMP, as you say. I would suggest that the CCA is your first point of investigation. Once you know where you stand with that... you can go forward from there.

 

-----------------------

 

Onwards and Upwards.

 

Chalkitup

 

[timewarp]

Nat West Step Account is a Basic Bank Account with a solo card only - no credit agreement required as it is virtually impossible to go overdrawn unless you have say a small balance and they reject a DD payment..

 

It is out of Credit regs as there is no credit available - not even a cheque book!

 

They apparently do not even credit check you before they open they only make sure you are not a bankrupt etc..

 

I am edging my bets here that you began with a Step and they have upgraded it to a status current account possible have you gone from Advantage Blue to Advantage Gold per chance?

 

If they have given you credit on a Step then there is an issue here for them as they are not acting responsibly and within the reasonable constraints of the service they offered to provide...

[sillygirl1]

I've got a Step account and when they charged me £35 for being 1p out (despite paying in money that day) I pointed out they should not be deducting charges from the account as the charges were for credit services and that didn't apply. Have had every charge reversed almost on the day it was incurred... none of this "will take three working days to go back" for me.

 

If they don't have properly trained staff chasing debts then they should be reported to Trading Standards.

 

I too tell them the call is being recorded before going through security, I also point out that I have different security answers depending on which company it is.... that confuses the little dears at the start... they don't really want to reveal they are NOT from the company but an 'agent working in a call centre'.

[Chalkitup]

Thank you priorityOne, timewarp and sillygirl1 for the responses. I have to pop out so quick answer to this Step Account mystery.

Never ever had a Step Account .... the account I CCA'd was my business account .... Chalkitup trading as XXXX ... and been a business account since it was set up in the nineties .... and only CCA'd this bank account as had an overdraft (since 2001) which is now a debt.

So Nat West (or Credit Management Services side of Nat West) have replied giving the complete wrong information!!

I will contact Rory32 as PriorityOne suggests regarding the CCA section number and see what he suggests as a reply to Nat West.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[rory32]

Overdrafts receive certain exemptions from section V of the CCA. This is does not mean that they are exempt from the Act. The exemption is given under s74 of the Act (so you wouldn't actually request it under s74).

 

the overdraft facility would have been confirmed by way of letter which does not require a customers signature.

True. The letter is the credit agreement, so they need to produce it.

 

You state this was a business account. Was it a limited company? Did you sign a guarantee?

[Chalkitup]

Hello Rory32 and thank you for joining this thread.

 

The Business account overdraft background is so:-

Account opened in the 1990's.

Not limited company ..... sole trader ...... Chalkitup trading as XXXX.

November 2001 my Business credit zone on the account was cancelled and Nat West started instead a "Committed Business Overdraft Facility" (Just found on the Internet:- "Committed overdrafts provide more peace of mind over the standard overdraft as they are overdrafts the bank cannot demand back at any time".....you probably knew that anyway.) I have used it quite a lot and every year since they have charged me a fee to renew it .... last November just after I informed them that I was in financial difficulties and had contacted the CCCS they even added a £200 fee then to renew it for another year (they told me afterwards and adding the fee took me over my limit) ... letters of complaint to them have made no difference as the fee is still there.

 

I do not remember signing a guarantee and no security was ever asked for.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[conar686]

*Subscribing*

[Chalkitup]

Regarding my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Nat West (post 25) .... do I send a letter back to them saying they have not fullfilled the SAR request and the reasons why?

 

Any other pointers regarding my next letters and their formats to Unidebt Collections/Nat West re my overdraft on business account would be very gratefully received as I am beginning to find this a little confusing now!

 

Onwards and Upwards.

 

Chalkitup

[rory32]

You'll find SAR non compliance templates here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

[Chalkitup]

Thank you rory32 .... I looked everywhere for those templates ... glasses needed I think.

By the way .. in post 31 I have given the answers you asked for regarding CCA request. I am really stumped on how to proceed with that one!!

 

Onwards and Upwards.

 

Chalkitup

[conar686]

Send the following LBA for the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Account: xxxxxxxx

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated (Insert Date). The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing.

(Adapt this next section to your situation)

1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges.(Add details of missing period - or a transaction that you know about which is not included)

2) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to any legal action between you and myself.

3) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing. Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

The time for compliance with my request has now expired. If you do not comply fully with my Subject Access Request within 7 days, I shall contact the Information Commissioners Office with my complaint and if necessary apply to the County Court for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court.

Yours faithfully,

Re the other stuff, I'd wait for them to exceed the 31 days milestone for criminal non compliance with the CCA, only respond to communications that are absolutely necessary. You are in the driving seat they have things they must do so don't help them & be patient

[Chalkitup]

Thank you conar686.

 

I will send the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) follow up letter off today.

 

Regarding the follow up CCA request letter to Unidebt Collections/Nat West re my overdraft on business account ... I am still not sure under what section this account is (or is not) CCA covered. Nat West Credit Management Services say it is not covered at all (post 25) so I need to be sure!!

 

Thanks

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[conar686]

Chk out paras 1.4 & 5 in the following OFT FAQs document, don't know if it helps you on the overdraft question

 

Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 as amended by the 2004 Amendment Regulations

[Chalkitup]

Update

 

CCA request 12+2 days deadline was 17/08/07 for CBS Transcom/MBNA. So +30 days is up on 17/09/07.

**CBS Transcom have sent a letter demanding whole amount by 05/09/07 .... do i just ignore it and await the CCA date of 17/09/07 or should I reply??

 

-------------------

 

S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)

I have sent off the follow up letter re S.A.R to Nat West telling them they have not fully complied.

 

-------------------

 

Still not sure what to send Nat West re the CCA request (post 25). As they are giving me misleading info every time I contact them

 

------------------

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[conar686]

**CBS Transcom have sent a letter demanding whole amount by 05/09/07 .... do i just ignore it and await the CCA date of 17/09/07 or should I reply??

 

Send the following polite letter

 

Their Addr

 

Date

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

Account Number

 

Thank you for your letter requesting full payment by xx xxx xx. I do not for the moment acknowledge any debt to your organisation

 

May I respectfully remind you that you had until xx xxxx xx to provide me with the true copy of my CCA requested on xx xxx xx, you are now in default of my request, therefore any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

 

Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

You now have until xx xxx xxx to comply with my request. Should you fail to provide me with a true copy of a properly executed credit agreement by this date, you will have committed a criminal offence and your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards.

Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to offer credit in the future. To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested.

Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[Chalkitup]

Thank you conar686 ..... letter sent off to them recorded today

 

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Chalkitup]

Hello rory32

 

Sorry to be pain but please can you give me a little advice regarding my reply to Nat West about my CCA request on my Sole Trader business account overdraft ..... see post 26 and gave answers you wanted in post 31.

 

Thank you

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Chalkitup]

Help again please

 

All regarding Nat West Business account overdraft

 

S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Nat West .... 40 DAYS deadline has now expired and only received six years worth of copy statements ..... NO other copy letters, data, notes etc etc. Sent a letter to them two weeks ago saying just copies of statements does not fulfill my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) etc etc ... but still nothing.

My next move please ..... remember I am after overdraft info to prove it comes under CCA.!!

 

CCA request ..... 12 days long expired .... 30 days is up next week ..... Nothing from them apart from their letter (see post 25) that says account not CCA covered AND tells me the account is a step account! which is the complete wrong info plus received letter yesterday demanding higher payment before court action. (already have DMP with CCCS) ... this is after I sent a letter two weeks ago saying account subject to CCA request and they can not ask for payments at present etc etc.

 

Nat West are sending letters to me from three different sections regarding this one account ..... Main Nat West (data controller) and Credit Management Services and Unidebt Collections (IN HOUSE DCA) .... none of them seem to know what the other is doing!! And all are giving misleading info plus completely untrue info from Unidebt Collections regarding my CCCS DMP ... have advised CCCS and they confirm Unidebt are wrong.

 

What shall I do ..... Is this overdraft / account CCA covered???

 

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[rory32]

S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Nat West .... 40 DAYS deadline has now expired and only received six years worth of copy statements .....

 

You need to now send them the Letter Before Action here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

[Chalkitup]

Thank you rory32

 

I thought that was the way to go but wanted confirmation as my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) is to get docs and info re the overdraft and not so much unlawful charges info.

 

How should I reply to their CCA denial letter for as PriorityOne says they can not have it both ways ..... the account had an authorised overdraft on it.

 

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Chalkitup]

Help still needed urgently please re....

 

Nat West Business account overdraft .... CCA request.

 

CCA request ..... 12 days long expired .... 30 days is up this week ..... Nothing from them apart from their letter (see post 25) that says account not CCA covered AND tells me the account is a step account! which is the complete wrong info plus received letter yesterday demanding higher payment before court action. (already have DMP with CCCS) ... this is after I sent a letter two weeks ago saying account subject to CCA request and they can not ask for payments at present etc etc.

 

Nat West are sending letters to me from three different sections regarding this one account ..... Main Nat West (data controller) and Credit Management Services and Unidebt Collections (IN HOUSE DCA) .... none of them seem to know what the other is doing!! And all are giving misleading info plus completely untrue info from Unidebt Collections regarding my CCCS DMP ... have advised CCCS and they confirm Unidebt are wrong.

 

What shall I do ..... Is this overdraft CCA covered ..... DO I write telling them it is CCA covered???

 

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[conar686]

Not sure if this helps

 

Help still needed urgently please re....

 

Nat West Business account overdraft .... CCA request.

 

Don't know but IMO ODs are not covered by the CCA

 

CCA request ..... 12 days long expired .... 30 days is up this week ..... Nothing from them apart from their letter (see post 25) that says account not CCA covered AND tells me the account is a step account! which is the complete wrong info plus received letter yesterday demanding higher payment before court action. (already have DMP with CCCS) ... this is after I sent a letter two weeks ago saying account subject to CCA request and they can not ask for payments at present etc etc.

 

Wait until the 30 days are up and send them a letter informing them that they have committed a criminal offence & it is your intention to not to make payments until they comply with your request. Additionally inform them that you are now lodging complaints with the FoS, FSA & their local trading standards.

 

Nat West are sending letters to me from three different sections regarding this one account ..... Main Nat West (data controller) and Credit Management Services and Unidebt Collections (IN HOUSE DCA) .... none of them seem to know what the other is doing!! And all are giving misleading info plus completely untrue info from Unidebt Collections regarding my CCCS DMP ... have advised CCCS and they confirm Unidebt are wrong.

 

Write to Nat West customer services, provide them with contact details of all organisations contacting you in respect of the account and instruct them to provide you with a single point of contact.

 

What shall I do ..... Is this overdraft CCA covered ..... DO I write telling them it is CCA covered???

 

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Chalkitup]

Thank you conar686 .... I will follow your advice re Nat West contact details and send letter to them.

 

Still not sure how to proceed with the CCA on Nat West Buisness account overdraft.

 

I have now received letter today from CBS Transcom saying they have requested a copy of my agreement and account placed on hold. HOWEVER the 12+2+30 days CCA request expired for them three days ago so shall I now send a letter to them (as with Nat West in post above) along the lines of ... too late they have already committed a criminal offence plus it is my intention to not make payments until they comply with my request. Plus tell them that I am now lodging complaints with the FoS, FSA and TS.

Do I request their complaints procedure also or do I go straight ahead and send letters to FOS, FSA and TS.

Also will they not have to go to court now to enforce it (if they come up with an agreement).

 

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

 

Chalkitup

[PriorityOne]

Personally, I wouldn't bother writing to them until/unless they try and pursue you for payment again....

[Chalkitup]

Thank you PriorityOne

 

I have decided to just wait till I hear again from 1st Credit and CBS Transcom because I have my work cut out with Nat West at present.

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I know I keep asking but I am still none the wiser regarding my reply to Nat West re CCA on Nat West business overdraft ... see from post 25 .....

CCA request 12+2+30 days deadline finished now for Unidebt Collections/Nat West overdraft on business account.

 

I read on CAG site that overdrafts come under CCA guidelines because interest is payable so I sent CCA request for my National Westminster business account overdraft (Sole trader hence - Chalkitup trading as XXXX) to Unidebt Collections who are part of Nat West group. Had reply from Credit Management Services Nat West saying …

**

There is no CCA regulated agreement for the above account, the overdraft facility would have been confirmed by way of letter which does not require a customers signature. However, no authorised overdraft would have been sanctioned for the above type of account as Step Accounts are only to be operated with a credit balance.

We are required to give you a Statement of Account. Therefore, please find below all the relevant details that are compulsory under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Debit balance --- £XXXXXX

Interest Rate --- X% + base rate

Accrued interest from 3 June 2007 --- £XXXX

There are no charges accruing on the account.

**

As previously mentioned by me on here the account in question is not a Step account at all but a business sole trader Chalkitup trading as XXXXX type of account .... so they have given the complete wrong info.

How should I now respond to this one ..... ?????

As stated I sent a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to get the overdraft applications and anything I signed but that deadline has passed also and all I have received are six years worth of copy statements ... absolutely nothing else.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup