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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

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1st Credit - a particularly aggressive DCA


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Background I'm in IVA and am maintaining payments to all my creditors.

 

This company has bought my debt (£1000) and have rejected the payment offer equal to what I was paying to the original creditor. Instead they are asking for a sum closer to £26 which is not practical nor reasonable

 

At the moment I've done a number of things to slow them down as they really want to put a charge on my property

 

1. I've hit them with a SAR asking for all data on all systems

 

2. Disputed their right to the debt as I have received nowt from the original creditor to say that the debt was sold on asking for a copy of the deed of assignment - they have responded to this by stating that I'm not entitled to see the deed & quote s136 of the law of property act as their reason for not doing so - any ideas?

3. Asked for a properly executed copy of the Credit Agreement as part of the SAR

 

All of the above has resulted in them putting on hold the account until the original creditor supplies them with the signed credit agreement.

 

I asked for a copy of a telephone conversation where one of their employees threatened me with court action if I did not come up with the £1000 in 7 day - they state that they need not comply with this request and quote Durant v FSA 2003 as their reason fro non compliance - is this correct??

 

Anyone had dealings with this lot, who can offer advice on getting them to behave reasonably or help on my questions above would be appreciated.

 

MAC

I'm not an expert so check everything I tell you, however click me scales if I've been useful.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

There is no freemasonry like the freemasonry of Golf

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Surely this is waaay out of order and should be dealt with by your IVA people.

Failing that you need to CCA 1st Credit to ensure that they have the legal right to collect this "debt".

A template letter can be found here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html Letter N.

What the CCA request does is asks 1st Credit for a copy of the original signed credit agreement. Now there are a couple of deadlines.

the first is 12 WORKING days after they receive it.

If they don't comply then you can stop paying them until they do.

After a further month they are in criminal default and serious trouble.

Then it's time to get Trading Standards involved.

 

The CCA request needs a set fee of £1.

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Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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I asked for a copy of a telephone conversation where one of their employees threatened me with court action if I did not come up with the £1000 in 7 day - they state that they need not comply with this request and quote Durant v FSA 2003 as their reason fro non compliance - is this correct??

 

MAC

 

Nope. All telephone recording systems would constitute a relevant filing system for the purpose of the act, since they all allow you to retrieve data on a particular call made against a particular account.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Are you actually in an IVA? if so, and they are included in the IVA, what they are doing is illegal. Were they (or the original creditor) included in the IVA?

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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If you're in an IVA....then surely they can't contact you...I presume you have an Insolvency Practitioner who handles your admin/payments - or is it one of these IVA companies....as I understood it, these companies CAN NOT contact you....but the incredibly wise people on here will know more than me....

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I'm not entitled to see the deed & quote s136 of the law of property act as their reason for not doing so

Completely irrelevant - I will post why later when I have more time.

 

they state that they need not comply with this request and quote Durant v FSA 2003 as their reason fro non compliance - is this correct??

 

They have rather twisted the findings of this case to their own ends. If you wish to read a short summary of the case it is here IoC comments re: Durant v FSA

 

The full case notes can be found here http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/judgmentsfiles/j2136/durant-v-fsa.htm

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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136. Legal assignments of things in action.]- [/b](1) Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice-

(a)
the legal right to such debt or thing in action;

(b)
all legal and other remedies for the same; and

©
the power to give a good discharge for the same without the concurrence of the assignor:

Provided that, if the debtor, trustee or other person liable in respect of such debt or thing in action has notice-

 

(a)
that the assignment is disputed by the assignor or any person claiming under him; or

(b)
of any other opposing or conflicting claims to such debt or thing in action;

he may, if he thinks fit, either call upon the persons making claim thereto to interplead concerning the same, or pay the debt or other thing in action into court under the provisions of the Trustee Act, 1925.

 

(2) This section does not affect the provisions of the Policies of Assurance Act, 1867.

 

Here's s136 of LoP 1925.

Basically they are talking crud, but when do DCA's not.

 

DCA's normally quote the LoP as the method that is used to purchase debts.

Under SAR they are required to give you ALL the information they hold INCLUDING the deed of assigment, the LoP quote is smoke and mirrors.

 

I'm sure rory will correct me if I'm wrong and add to what I have started.

Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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This lot want nearly £6000.00 off me. I've sent them a CCA request their time is up on the 19th July. They phoned my mobile yesterday and I didn't answer. Left a message on the voicemail could I contact Kirsty at 1st credit.

The money they want from me is a loan my ex partner took out 2 years ago. They are chasing me because it was a joint bank account with the scAbbey National. 1st credit first contacted me and said it was my loan and not my ex partners as I was the one who requested it. I contacted scAbbey who told me this was a lie. 1st credit then told me they spoke to my ex partner who told them he would take me to court rather than pay. All lies. I told them fine I'd see them in court and then sent them the CCA request.

 

I am still worried though because the amount of money they say I owe and they will go to ANY lengths to get their money as some people have found out. They don't care if they break the law.

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Here's s136 of LoP 1925.

Basically they are talking crud, but when do DCA's not.

 

DCA's normally quote the LoP as the method that is used to purchase debts.

Under S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) they are required to give you ALL the information they hold INCLUDING the deed of assigment, the LoP quote is smoke and mirrors.

 

I'm sure rory will correct me if I'm wrong and add to what I have started.

 

there is a lot of debate as to whether the DPA 1998 entitled you to a copy of the deed of assignment; my personal inclination is that it doesn't... but that since any court actioon is founded on the DoA, in the event of court action they must disclose it.

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i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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there is a lot of debate as to whether the Data Protection Act 1998 entitled you to a copy of the deed of assignment; my personal inclination is that it doesn't...

That's my conclusion as well.

 

but that since any court actioon is founded on the DoA, in the event of court action they must disclose it.

That again is my conclusion, which is why it's always worth asking for it.

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HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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CCA 1st Credit to ensure that they have the legal right to collect this "debt".

 

tks Curlyben

 

I've hit them with a SAR for all data, in particular I have requested as per the template

 

Copy of signed credit agreement

Deed of Assignment

 

Stillgot 20 days of deadline to go

I'm not an expert so check everything I tell you, however click me scales if I've been useful.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

There is no freemasonry like the freemasonry of Golf

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If you're in an IVA....then surely they can't contact you...I presume you have an Insolvency Practitioner who handles your admin/payments - or is it one of these IVA companies....as I understood it, these companies CAN NOT contact you....but the incredibly wise people on here will know more than me....

 

Tks 42

 

I am indeed with one of the IVA companies as I found the free pay ones very disappointing.

 

In the case where the debt has been sold on, I'm being told, negotiations begin again as I can't stop my creditors from this action. The problem is negotiation requires participation & this lot don't want to play at the moment.

I'm not an expert so check everything I tell you, however click me scales if I've been useful.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

There is no freemasonry like the freemasonry of Golf

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The simple thing that ALL of these DCAs fail to recognise is by their own aggressiveness they get our backs up causing people to google them and end up here. They threaten all sorts and when you arrive here you discover the to be the purveyors of falsehoods that they actually are.

 

One day some of us will be approached by a nice DCA who will listen to our problems take a sympathetic view and agree a sensible repayment schedule

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Nope. All telephone recording systems would constitute a relevant filing system for the purpose of the act, since they all allow you to retrieve data on a particular call made against a particular account.

 

Tks TT

 

They quote Durant v FSA in particular they rely on 'the statutory right of access to personal data will only apply if the filing system is structured as a relevant filing system. To constitute a relevant filing system the manual files should be structured to enable the searcher to go straight to the correct category & retrieve the information without a manual search, or should be indexed as to allow the searcher to go directly to the relevant pages.'

 

They go on to say that the ICO have confirmed in writing they are satisfied 'that the way this company structures/holds its audio recordings' does not fall under the SAR provisions of the DPA.

 

I'll challenge this & ask for a copy of the ICO guidance letter and how their systems are structured so as to avoid their responsibilities under my SAR , doubt I'll get it, worth asking for anyway.

 

MAC

I'm not an expert so check everything I tell you, however click me scales if I've been useful.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

There is no freemasonry like the freemasonry of Golf

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As far as I know the SAR demands all information they hold on you and this would include telephone calls. If of course yo make an allegation of a criminal offence then the boys in blue would be able to obtain such recordings IF they exist. I have found that most DCAs do nor record any calls as they know that most of the crap and threats they come out with is totally illegal. However to be on the safe side always record any conversation you have with a DCA.

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Can anyone put into English the Quote from Curlyben on the s136 of the LoP. As per, legal words make my teeth itch - I can't understand whats being stated.

 

Does this allow them to process your data for instance as they claim they have defaulted me already with a CRA (waiting for my reports). I suspect not & have sent a s 10/12 notice.

 

I strongly suspect they own my debt now, else why would they take this much trouble, should I send my old payments to them for the time being until we reach agreement on other payments?

I'm not an expert so check everything I tell you, however click me scales if I've been useful.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

There is no freemasonry like the freemasonry of Golf

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Tks 42

 

I am indeed with one of the IVA companies as I found the free pay ones very disappointing.

 

In the case where the debt has been sold on, I'm being told, negotiations begin again as I can't stop my creditors from this action. The problem is negotiation requires participation & this lot don't want to play at the moment.

 

Has the IVA not started yet, then?

 

Can anyone put into English the Quote from Curlyben on the s136 of the LoP. As per, legal words make my teeth itch - I can't understand whats being stated.

 

Does this allow them to process your data for instance as they claim they have defaulted me already with a CRA (waiting for my reports). I suspect not & have sent a s 10/12 notice.

 

I strongly suspect they own my debt now, else why would they take this much trouble, should I send my old payments to them for the time being until we reach agreement on other payments?

 

There are lots of types of "own". A legal assignment is the assignment of all rights and duties of a debt. This is what's required if you are going to sue in your own name. Once someone assigns the debt, they must send you a notice. That is all the section means, that if someone sells all rights and duties it is effective only when they notify you of the fact.

 

The section has nothing to do with whether they need to send you a document of assignment. (even the wording, as in "deed" is wrong).

 

Lots of DCA's, and I'm thinking Cabot, are assigned an equitable interest (i.e. the benefits) and then try to argue that they have a right to enforce the debt in a court in their own name. They do not.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Thanks TT

 

My DMP started 2 yrs ago this is the first time I've had anyone behave in such an unreasonable manner :-x . Still thats the beneift of this site 'you ain't alone and there's always someone who is willing ot help' :) .

 

I've responded to their letter re-iterating my SAR stating that I require a copy of the deed of assignment before I acknowledge their right to act in this matter.

 

I've contended their right to process my data asking them by what mechanism they think they can do so and info'd them that their reliance on Durant is lame as Mr Durant tried to obtain information on a third party and all I am asking for is data referring to me.

 

Thet'll get back to me in a few days so I'll post more then

I'm not an expert so check everything I tell you, however click me scales if I've been useful.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

There is no freemasonry like the freemasonry of Golf

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subscribing:cool:

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Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.

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