Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • that was a good saving on an £8k debt dx
    • Find out how the UK general elections works, how to register to vote, and what to do on voting day.View the full article
    • "We suffer more in imagination than in reality" - really pleased this all happened. Settled by TO, full amount save as to costs and without interest claimed. I consider this a success but feel free to move this thread to wherever it's appropriate. I say it's a success because when I started this journey I was in a position of looking to pay interest on all these accounts, allowing them to default stopped that and so even though I am paying the full amount, it is without a doubt reduced from my position 3 years ago and I feel knowing this outcome was possible, happy to gotten this far, defended myself in person and left with a loan with terms I could only dream of, written into law as interest free! I will make better decisions in the future on other accounts, knowing key stages of this whole process. We had the opportunity to speak in court, Judge (feels like just before a ruling) was clear in such that he 'had all the relevant paperwork to make a judgement'. He wasn't pleased I hadn't settled before Court.. but then stated due to WS and verbal arguments on why I haven't settled, from my WS conclusion as follows: "11. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. "  He offered to stand down the case to give us chance to settle and that that was for my benefit specifically - their Sols didn't want to, he asked me whether I wanted to proceed to judgement or be given the opportunity to settle. Naturally, I snapped his hand off and we entered negotiations (took about 45 minutes). He added I should get legal advice for matters such as these. They were unwilling to agree to a TO unless it was full amount claimed, plus costs, plus interest. Which I rejected as I felt that was unfair in light of the circumstances and the judges comments, I then countered with full amount minus all costs and interest over 84 months. They accepted that. I believe the Judge wouldn't have been happy if they didn't accept a payment plan for the full amount, at this late stage. The judge was very impressed by my articulate defence and WS (Thanks CAG!) he respected that I was wiling to engage with the process but commented only I  can know whether this debt is mine, but stated that Civil cases were based on balance of probabilities, not without shadow of a doubt, and all he needs to determine is whether the account existed. Verbal arguments aside; he has enough evidence in paperwork for that. He clarified that a copy of a DN and NOA is sufficient proof based on balance of probabilities that they were served. I still disagree, but hey, I'm just me.. It's definitely not strict proof as basically I have to prove the negative (I didn't receive them/they were not served), which is impossible. Overall, a great result I think! BT  
    • Seeking further advice now. The 33 days in which the defendant has to submit a defence expires at 16:00 tomorrow. The defendant has submitted an acknowledgement of service but looking to get the claim awarded by default in failure to submit the defence. This is MoneyClaim Online and can see an option to request a default judgement but believe that is for failure to acknowledge the claim within 14 days??  So being MoneyClaim Online, how do I request the claim be awarded in my favour?
    • Have to agree with the above Health and safety legislation is specific in that the service provider in so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees and those not in the employ of the business. You claim is like saying you slipped in the swimming pool area while taking a dip. As rightly stated by by the leisure centre, a sports hall has dedicated equipment and you yourself personally have a legal obligation in mitigating danger or injury to yourself by taking account of your immediate surroundings. Where your claim will fail is if it is reasonable and proportionate to impose liability of the Leisure Centre? The answer has to be no.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Fred Bassett v Bank of Scotland/Blair Oliver Scott


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3414 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi, Where do I find this definition? I've tied googlong it but can't find anything.

Thanks Jon

Subbing - have same account - now passed on to IQOR - but it says on documents "Capital Bank" - is this because the card was tied in with a loan ie two agreements on same page?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 301
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Subbing - have same account - now passed on to IQOR - but it says on documents "Capital Bank" - is this because the card was tied in with a loan ie two agreements on same page?

 

That's right Cleo. Have a look at the agreements. You will probably find no mention of the CCA on the preference account section. It is a credit card, but BoS are now trying to deny this.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting, I just had a copy of the 2nd sheet, not the front or back of the loan/preference account add-on..but the terms and conditions with my sig on it, sent to me by a dca asking me if it was my sig, then if it is please confirm and they'll send the rest of the paperwork...What on earth is going on? Not a word about the CCA on my documents either other than the original loan bit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting, I just had a copy of the 2nd sheet, not the front or back of the loan/preference account add-on..but the terms and conditions with my sig on it, sent to me by a dca asking me if it was my sig, then if it is please confirm and they'll send the rest of the paperwork...What on earth is going on? Not a word about the CCA on my documents either other than the original loan bit.

 

 

That sounds very dodgy to me. The bank has always been happy to send you statements and, presumably, threatograms, so I would tell them that they haven't complied with your request.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

  • Haha 1

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what Wiki says:

 

Current account is the name given to a transactional account in the United Kingdom and countries with a UK banking heritage, offering various flexible payment methods to allow customers to distribute money directly to others. Most current accounts come with a cheque book NOPE and offer the facility to arrange standing orders, NOPE direct debits NOPE and payment via a debit card. SORT OF Current accounts may also allow borrowing via an overdraft SORT OF facility.

 

North American transactional accounts offer itemized lists of all financial transactions, either through a bank statement or a passbook. A transactional account allows the account holder to make or receive payments by:

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what Wiki says:

 

Current account is the name given to a transactional account in the United Kingdom and countries with a UK banking heritage, offering various flexible payment methods to allow customers to distribute money directly to others. Most current accounts come with a cheque book NOPE and offer the facility to arrange standing orders, NOPE direct debits NOPE and payment via a debit card. SORT OF Current accounts may also allow borrowing via an overdraft SORT OF facility.

 

North American transactional accounts offer itemized lists of all financial transactions, either through a bank statement or a passbook. A transactional account allows the account holder to make or receive payments by:

 

Kel,

 

If I remember correctly, I think I had a chequebook with mine. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything - every credit card I've ever had came with credit card cheques.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is how it was originally sold to me:

 

You take out an original loan, you are then pre allocated an extension loan (credit limit). And that you can if you wish use it has a current account. This was abt 2003 (have not got the paperwork infront of me).

 

Everthing went belly up (my company closed)in 2004. So in 2006 I needed to get away from Lloyds so I enquired about using this account as my current account _ the answer was 'you cannot use it as a current account!' This was when I checked it out.

 

I think they tried a fast one by selling it this way and ofcause the paperwork didn't meet CCA1974 but would meet a current account paperwork but has I have already said it cannot be used as a current account. Also it was sold over the phone with the cheque arriving the next day by currier? Also the stated APR on mine is incorrect and outside tollerances.

 

So all in all I think they are stuffed

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

I have one of these accounts from when I bought a car with finance from the dealer about 97'ish. The car dealer said this pref account came with the car loan, and that it was just an extra credit facility, which you just used with the cheque &/or card that would be provided.

Anyhoo, I cca'd BOS 2 months ago, still no reply, but received a call yesterday, whereby after tellling the clerk the account was in dispute, he said "are you still using the credit card?".

No sure if this is any help, but just wanted to let you know that even their own call centre staff are referring to it as a credit card facility. Not sure if its because mine was part of a loan agreement, but thought worth throwing in the mix if it helps anyone.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a BOS preference account. BOS has just secured a CCJ with an agreement to make monthly payments. I have sent the original agreement to no win, no fee firm of solicitors for their opinion. They won't take it on as they are not sure of it's status. I am very upset as I thought it would comply. Has anyone actually written direct to BOS to challenge the enforcability of the agreement??

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi ...

Had a thought ... if peps thought, and were told by either BOS, NWS or the selling agent, they had:-

A) Been sold a flexible loan agreement - but that it is actually a bank account

B) With the credit facility not a loan as such, but really an overdraft

Which means that it is not governed by the protection of the CCA 74 - which the applicant thought it would have been by nature of it being a loan agreement ...

 

Then surely BOS and/or the selling agent are guilty of mis-sellling. i.e the full and accurate facts of the basis of the contract were not disclosed at the point of sale. Meaning that the applicant was disadvantaged, and unable to have a made full and informed decision as to whether they wanted to enter into the agreement/contract knowing that it would not be governed by the protection of the CCA74.

 

Has anyone forwarded their agreement, and BOS stance on it being a bank account, using the mis-selling angle to FOS for their review?

 

I also agree that cheques or a cheque book being issued does not on its own make the agreement a bank account. I know that the Marks & Spencer preference account, which works on an identical basis to the BOS pref account, also works on a cheque book basis (although there is no card facility). And also credit card providers are sending out cheques by the dozen to cardholders.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Guest dvdriley

APEX credit have confirmed my AA prerence account has been assigned to them by BOS. The agreement does not refer to consumer credit act and has no terms or conditions. It refers to repaying 5% of balance oer month or £5 whichever is greatest. This was an AA credit card and overdraft.

 

Apex are now refering to it as a BOS loan saying it was migrated and given a card number.

 

I never applied for a loan. A credit check refers to thios account and default as a credit card.

 

Any advice or help where to go from here. I have not yet told Apex about the credit search I did.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is how it was originally sold to me:

 

You take out an original loan, you are then pre allocated an extension loan (credit limit). And that you can if you wish use it has a current account. This was abt 2003 (have not got the paperwork infront of me).

 

Everthing went belly up (my company closed)in 2004. So in 2006 I needed to get away from Lloyds so I enquired about using this account as my current account _ the answer was 'you cannot use it as a current account!' This was when I checked it out.

 

I think they tried a fast one by selling it this way and ofcause the paperwork didn't meet CCA1974 but would meet a current account paperwork but has I have already said it cannot be used as a current account. Also it was sold over the phone with the cheque arriving the next day by currier? Also the stated APR on mine is incorrect and outside tollerances.

 

So all in all I think they are stuffed

Hi - cleo subbing - what do you mean by the APR is outside tolerances please? I have this Preference account with BOS - it came with a loan. Both the Preference account and the loan agreement are on the same page.

 

I am expecting them to take me to court - however BOS terminated it after issuing a faulty DN notice

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone,

Just found this thread - I have a Preference card and they are now taking me to court on a CCC.

 

For everyone's interest, the POCs state very clearly that the claim is for a credit agreement.

 

So, if BOS are suing me for non-payment of a credit agreement, then surely they are treating it as a credit card and not a bank account?

I'm a L-Plate cagger - new at all this but determined to learn as much as I can, to help as many others as I can, and to fight back as often as I can!:-x

Any help or advice from me is offered in good faith, based on my knowledge and experience gained either from here or from my own cases. I am NOT a legal expert. There are several other CAG members and the site team who are much better qualified than me. Please do not make any decisions based on my advice alone.

Donate as much as you can to this site as often as you can! We need to keep on helping each other.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cleo4patra

 

It is in the wording and their use of free months!

 

I have not got the paperwork in front of me but here is the jist

 

Every one 'except for one' (and I questioned her integrety) that I have spocken to, started paying one momth after the start, so if it was over 36 months it is 36 + 1 = 37 months, when you are working out the APR. The way they worded it says you start paying two months after you receive the payment - which is totally correct but! when they have worked out the APR they have used 36 + 2 = 38 months! Now dependant upon the amount of loan is how it effects the APR. Off the top of my head (it's in here somewhere) quoted APR must be within tolerances (something like 0.1 below and 1 above). Here is a peculiarity My Halifax Loan is worked out exactly the same and is again outside tolerances

 

So all I keep doing to the debt collecters is :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Steven.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, well as far as I'm concerned, this nails it once and for all. It's a CREDIT CARD:

 

BoSLetterCREDITCARD.jpg

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You cant argue with that Fred :D

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

it does say credit card in the text - they just put the wrong headed paper in the printer :rolleyes:

 

I'd like to be a fly on the wall when they tell that to a Judge!

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It tool them long enough to tell you - silly BOS. :rolleyes:

 

Well actually, I'd had that letter since October 2008. I was looking for something else when I spotted it. Bingo!

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading it again, I also notice that they have referred to me asking for charges over the 'last 6 years'. This is not what I asked for - I wanted the full SAR and I'm currently threatening to take them to court unless they provide it.

 

It raises an interesting point. If they only keep records going back 6 years, how can they prove what the balance was at the 'Today-6 Years' point?

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading it again, I also notice that they have referred to me asking for charges over the 'last 6 years'. This is not what I asked for - I wanted the full SAR and I'm currently threatening to take them to court unless they provide it.

 

It raises an interesting point. If they only keep records going back 6 years, how can they prove what the balance was at the 'Today-6 Years' point?

 

Fred

 

That's exactly what I've just asked MBNA to explain. They wrote back saying my letter wasn't clear:rolleyes:

 

CitizenB had a chat with the tax man a while ago, and he asked exactly the same question - if they don't have the whole history of transactions, how can they prove the bought forward balance?

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

 

I've just realised that there is one, potentially, important difference between my preference account and some of the others on here.

 

Most of these are very similar in that they appear on the same page, side-by-side with a loan agreement. The loan agreement is headed 'Loan Agreement regulated by the CCA ... ' etc, the preference side is not.

 

The difference for me is that I didn't sign the preference card side of this at all, but was actually sent a separate document later on (I can't remember why this is now). I suppose BoS may argue that because the CCA was mentioned in the document that it applies to the preference account as well. In my case they definitely can't.

 

I don't think this will make too much difference as they are both distinctly separate agreements but it's worth pointing out.

 

Regards to all.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...