Can we turn the tables?

[haircut]

I've dealt with the banks with the help of this site, I've responded to the private car park ticket

 

With regards to your letter dated xxx. I do not have an account with you. You refer to a Civil Penalty Charge Notice being issued. This would infer that I entered a civil agreement with yourselves. I did not.

I assume you asked the DVLA for the details of the owner of the vehicle in question. Although I am the owner of the vehicle, I am not always the driver.

In addition, please make a note of my Terms and Conditions with regard to the administration of your letters.

If you write to me again, regarding this matter, it will trigger the acceptance of the fact that you will have to pay me an administration fee of £20 per letter. This is for my time and expenses.

Didn't hear any more from them.

 

I'm more annoyed about companies trying to bully us & chargeing for not paying by direct debit or not paying on time & snowballing our bills. & I'm fighting back more.

 

I noticed on this site other people using things like "If you write to me again, regarding this matter, it will trigger the acceptance of the fact that you will have to pay me an administration fee of £20 per letter. This is for my time and expenses."

 

& thought I should do the same. If companies can change their terms and conditions & level of service (like dropping TV channels) why can't the consumer?

 

I thought I'd write a general terms & conditions notice that I could include when things go wrong & I end up having to deal with companies who think they're god & have every right to my money if they decide.

 

Perhaps someone can advice me on the legality of including such text in a letter & advice any additions/changes - must be more legal than taking hundreds of pounds out of my account when I'm paid a day late.

 

Anyway here's what I came up with.

 

My Standard Terms and conditions and Charges for dealing with companies or idividuals.

 

 

When extra administration or communication is needed to deal with a company or individual

that is not a straight forward purchace of goods or services, dealing with a financial dispute,

or any other dispute that requires me to write a letter or e-mail, make a phone call, or where

I perform reasearch to resolve a matter, or clarify my legal position, an administration

charge or fee of £50 for each half day, or part thereof of my time spent dealing with an issue

will be chargeable.

 

Charge(s) or fee(s) may be waived at my discression, if the issue is settled promptly.

 

Charge(s) or fee(s) will be payable immidiately on demand and legal action may be taken to recover

these Charge(s) or fee(s) and any costs I occur in recovery action.

 

Charge(s) or fee(s) are to cover my administration costs and loss of earnings in dealing with

companies or idividuals.

 

By responding or communicating with me in any way after you receive this you are accepting these

terms and conditions.

 

In these terms and conditions:-

 

'My' 'me' 'I' reffers to xxx, xx my address xx.

'companies' "company' 'idividuals' 'you' refers to the company or individual with which I am communicating.

 

 

[Guest ArthurP]

I was having an issue with GUS home shopping, I think it was Great Universal.

 

I had bought a music system with an extended warranty. They sent the wrong system so I had to re-order all over again with a new warranty too.

 

They hounded me for months to pay for the first warranty, which was obviously invalid due to the mix up.

 

In any case, they eventually threatened bailifs to my home and I sent a letter back threatening my own action and billed them £100 for my trouble thus far in dealing with it.

 

They apologised and knocked £100 off my account. I then settled the rest and closed the account.

[half ax I]

Love it. But it doesn't extend to at least 70 clauses, 3 pages and the print isn't too small to read. Although if I do Ctrl-Minus in my browser 3 times - yep thats the right size!

[meagain]

The scary part is that, besides the £50 per half-day, that seems reasonable. Even the method of execution is probably sound - after all, if the banks can say that you gave consent by your actions, then turnabout is fair play.

 

At the £50 per half-day, it will be seen as excessive, since administrative labour is counted in units of quarter- or half-hours (not days), and the court will only award £9.25/hour anyway. £5 per half-hour you might get away with, but at £50 per half-day it's almost certainly a penalty, equally unenforceable as those the banks impose. Good thinking, though

[laaldinger]

 

At the £50 per half-day, it will be seen as excessive, since administrative labour is counted in units of quarter- or half-hours (not days), and the court will only award £9.25/hour anyway. £5 per half-hour you might get away with, but at £50 per half-day it's almost certainly a penalty, equally unenforceable as those the banks impose. Good thinking, though

 

Why should it be classed as a penelty, my solicitor charges £140 an hour, and all it is is time for fact finding reseach, letter writing, etc.

[meagain]

Why should it be classed as a penelty, my solicitor charges £140 an hour, and all it is is time for fact finding reseach, letter writing, etc.

 

Because that is a service they are performing at your request, and (hopefully) to your benefit.

[laaldinger]

While I see where meagain is comming from, I disagree in that it is you doing the work that you are charging for, not billing someone for something they have done.. Think of it as being self-employed.

Then again, the tax-man will just take the lot. lol

[meagain]

While I see where meagain is comming from, I disagree in that it is you doing the work that you are charging for, not billing someone for something they have done..

 

You would not have needed to do the work if it were not for the "something they have done", hence it is a cost, not a service. Saying you will charge someone for costs you have incurred is a contractual penalty, which is not allowed. You can only pass on a reasonable value of the cost itself.

[laaldinger]

ahh I get it now, I think. Will have to ponder some more 'cos I think my time has greater value than that.

[meagain]

... I think my time has greater value than that.

 

You and the rest of the world ;-)

[dw190]

 

At the £50 per half-day, it will be seen as excessive, since administrative labour is counted in units of quarter- or half-hours (not days), and the court will only award £9.25/hour anyway. £5 per half-hour you might get away with, but at £50 per half-day it's almost certainly a penalty, equally unenforceable as those the banks impose. Good thinking, though

 

Nahh, your wrong.

 

£50.00 per half day = 12 hours @ £4.17.

 

Should be £55.50 per half day calculated @£9.25 per hour.

[meagain]

Nahh, your wrong.

 

£50.00 per half day = 12 hours @ £4.17.

 

£50 per half day = 4 hours @ £12.50. Or to be really picky, 3h42m @ £13.51.

[SteveH2508]

My Standard Terms and Conditions and Charges for dealing with companies or individuals.

 

 

When extra administration or communication is needed to deal with a company or individual

that is not a straightforward purchase of goods or services, dealing with a financial dispute,

or any other dispute that requires me to write a letter or e-mail, make a phone call, or where

I perform research to resolve a matter, or clarify my legal position, an administration

charge or fee of £50 for each half day, or part thereof of my time spent dealing with an issue

will be chargeable.

 

Charge(s) or fee(s) may be waived at my discretion, if the issue is settled promptly.

 

Charge(s) or fee(s) will be payable immediately on demand and legal action may be taken to recover

these Charge(s) or fee(s) and any costs I occur in recovery action.

 

Charge(s) or fee(s) are to cover my administration costs and loss of earnings in dealing with

companies or individuals.

 

By responding or communicating with me in any way after you receive this you are accepting these

terms and conditions.

 

In these terms and conditions:-

 

'My' 'me' 'I' refers to xxx, xx my address xx.

'companies' "company' 'individuals' 'you' refers to the company or individual with which I am communicating.

 

Mr Picky here

A few spellings/typos you might want to address

[haircut]

I wondered when someone would pick up on the typos!

 

So I'd get away with this if I chnge the amount hey?

£50 per half day excessive. I bet judges get paid more than £9.25 per hour! Fact is if I have to take half a day (or part thereof) off work to deal with comapnies, I loose at least £50. That's the real world.

 

Guess I'll change that bit to £5 per half hour. Mind you my half day is 7am to 12 midday. 7am - 11am Reasearch 11am - 11:30 Letter writing. 11:30-12:00 confirming reasearch & sending letter.

 

Thats 10 x half hours @ £5 / half hour = £ 50 ?

 

Would I get away with this?

[meagain]

So I'd get away with this if I chnge the amount hey?

 

Maybe. ISTR at least one other person here doing something similar (along the lines of "if you charge me, I will invoice you for the charge and my costs"), not sure how they got on.

 

 

£50 per half day excessive. I bet judges get paid more than £9.25 per hour!

 

I'll bet they do, but you're not a judge. No court in the land will award a lay person £100 per day in costs for small claims.

 

Fact is if I have to take half a day (or part thereof) off work to deal with comapnies, I (aargh!) lose with one o at least £50. That's the real world.

 

Fact is, you would then have to prove that loss to the court. It's not enough to say "I get paid £12/hour, and have to take 4 hours off to do this". If someone has breached a contract with you, you can't bill them at your usual service rate. To get beyond the £9.25, you have to prove that you actually lost money - as in it was a statistical certainty that you would have been paid but were not.

 

Mind you my half day is 7am to 12 midday. 7am - 11am Reasearch 11am - 11:30 Letter writing. 11:30-12:00 confirming reasearch & sending letter.

 

That's excessive again. Out of all of that time, you can only pass on the half-hour for drafting the letter (you've hit that spot-on, though - generally accepted billing practice is half an hour for a letter). The idea is that once you have done the research once, you do not need to do it again. Billing for further time for things such as "walking to the PO" is taking the mickey, though. On the other hand, if you serve the letters by recorded or special delivery, again that is a cost to you that you would not otherwise have incurred, which you could reasonably pass on (but if you ask someone to pay you £5 for SD, make sure you actually do use SD).

[dw190]

Someone is missing something here.

 

You can claim £9.25 per hour for your preparation of the case. ie research and clerical in your own "spare" time.

 

Attendance at court would have an effect on your earnings which would be claimed as "Loss of Earnings". If your losses are equal to £100.00 per day it would be reasonable to claim £50.00 for half a days loss. You must be able to prove the loss with documentation.