Berk!! If the DCA choose NOT to provide a lawfully requested document, what right have they to demand that you pay up. It's a 2way street.

Hi all, I have been reading a lot of threads lately, and while I dont remember which DCA says 'they have the rights NOT duties blah blah' in their excuses, I found something interesting in the CCA 1986?? (lost the actual title). It says 21 Interpretation of ss. 140A and 140B of the 1974 Act After section 140B of the 1974 Act (inserted by section 20 of this Act) insert— "140C Interpretation of ss. 140A and 140B (1) In this section and in sections 140A and 140B ‘credit agreement’ means any agreement between an individual (the ‘debtor’) and any other person (the ‘creditor’) by which the creditor provides the debtor with credit of any amount. (2) References in this section and in sections 140A and 140B to the creditor or to the debtor under a credit agreement include— (a) references to the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law; (b) where two or more persons are the creditor or the debtor, references to any one or more of those persons. I surmise then that their argument has gone by the by for not complying with a CCA request. Please remember, I'm a gardener NOT a legal eagle, so I could be interperating it wrong.

That I'm afraid I can't help you with (yet) as I havent done 1. you should be able to search the General Debt threads for help though.

Have you had any notice that they were taking the debt over? If not, WRITE to them notifying them that the debt is disputed. This will give you some breathing space. Next (if you're not sure you hold a valid agreement under CCA), send them a CCA request by RECORDED delivery - costs £1:00. Search the threads for CCA, loads of info on the site, but make sure you inform them that it is NOT to be used towards the DISPUTED debt. You can also do an S.A.R. (subject access request) (£10:00). Consider doing this to CitiCards 'cos it 'should' show up that they agreed there would be not interest and that you have been sticking to your agreement. You could also inform the DCA that you will only deal with the origional (Citi) unless they prove they own the debt, in otherwords Citi ARE NOT their client. But dont be paniced by them, only WRITE to them, tell them you will not discuss the account VERBALLY either on phone or doorstep.

well that was an interesting thread, but what I was surprised at was that no one suggested SAR then claim it all back!! But I do see the point of offering an F&F which is what I was/am considering IF circumstances allow. My trouble is, is knowing I'll have a sum to offer, just don't know exactly when 'cos its from an inheritance thats currently in probate. Saying that, I have also considered waiting it out for S of L, but ..... it's a right moral dilema, legally I know it's not enforcable, but theres a part of me that says 'pay up, you used the money/services. aaargh lol

Thanks Dave My thinking was that if I were to offer a payment of some sort, then if the DCA 'found' the correct paperwork, and a resolution regarding an offer failed. DCA proceds to court, the offer of £1:00 stops the DCA from saying the debtor was trying to avoid the debt, and the court would? look favourably towards the debtor. As everyone keeps saying, It's only enforcable while the DCA DONT have the correct paperwork, and a lot of contributers to the forum appear to feel that you shouldn't run from your debt ( me too as it is, but I dont mind reducing it lol)

Got a question for you all, but before I do, I want to state that IT IS NOT MY INTENTION TO AVOID PAYING MY DEBT. Right, got that out the way, so my question. If a DCA or other party fails to produce a properly executed agreement, defaults on CCA and passes the 40 day mark, would a debtor be justified in reducing any payment they make to a £1:00, sending it as a Gesture of Goodwill (or whatever), each and every month?. For some, this may be an important step/way/method of getting the finances under control. The floor is, as they say, open.

DONT Phone. Never phone. Always write and keep copies Send a S.A.R. (Subject Access Request ) including £10:00?? fee, to your usual postal address. Ensure you send it Recorded / Registered delivery (P.O. have 2 different catogaries, 1 costs £1:04p the other is £3-£4, can't quite remember) Do a thread search for additional help and research.

To anyone who's still reading this thread. When looking VERY carefully at the document you see scanned near the beginning of this thread, I found something that I think is very interesting. Under the CCA title, on the top line of the right hand column reads; 'I have read the terms and conditions setting out the agreement with Capital1 and if my application to accepted, I agree to be ...... My question is, if it's considered a properly executed agreement, why does it refer to itself as being an application? Any ideas?

As a follow up, 'cos I lost my train of thought, as TFI say they OWN the debt you should CCA them and see where it gets you. If they legitamately own the debt they 'MUST' have the relevant docs. If not, it would seem that it is not enforceable, leaving you with an oppotunity to negotiate an appropriate (re-)payment plan. Read the various threads on CCAs for the timings and procedures, and consider your own circumstances for the route(s) you want to take.

Pen, Its my understanding, and remember I am pretty new here, that if HFC are stating that they have SOLD the debt then they should have notified you as such, and TFI should of informed you that they have taken the debt on. Search for the thread DCAs and The Data Protection Act and have a read. The info others have gave me will IMO be relevant to what you are requiring. Hope it helps you.

My kind of thinking!!

Hi all, just came across this thread and while I can understand and see where everone is coming from, and an opinion is just that, an opinion, no matter how 'learned', I feel that the best sort of natural justice here is reducing the banks profit margin, in this case by getting your money back, which reduces the number of investors, reducing the banks ability to make more profit. The less profit they have, the less they can advertise/make new customer deals. The fewer the customers, the less the bank is thought of. The less its thought of, the fewer the customers who join/stay. They lose in the end, even banks dont have bottomless pockets. It will just take a while longer than we the consumers of the present day would like.

Have a letter up and ready to go, but it looks like I may re-draft it 'cos I havent specificaly told them to stop. I prefer to find out how the answer to my questions releating to how they got the info in the first place.

On this I would of thought it would be easy to prove unfair and disproportionate charging. £60 seems a bit excessive. If this is your only concern them might I suggest you try contacting them with the info about loyal customer, rarely into OD, good customer releations to re-think charging in this case. Might be easier and less stressful than you think, and you still have the option of claiming it back other ways, but so much easyier in court to prove you were being reasonable. Others of course might have a different opinion, so listen to them all and then make your own mind up

yet neither have done so, and lets face it, I would know, it's not like my memory is failing over the course of a week

Seems to me is that they have given you info that you would recieve following your making a CCA request, possibly stalling time or a simple miscommunication between DJ and HFC. Write back informing DJ that the account is in dispute, ask for proof of authorisation for DJ to act from HFC, and you are waiting for your SAR to be actioned. See what DJ says then. In the meantime search the HFC threads & CCA threads and see what usefull info you can pick up. Saying that, my HFC is with DLRS. Hope you have luck,

Unfortunately, or maybe more fortunately, we were in a position to see that we had over-extended ourselves before we had the debt, basically due to changes in working practise, we had an ever decreasing drop in available working capital, ie, the bank balance kept going down, so charges wise we werent hit too badly. While I agree that they will need investigating at some time in the near future with an eye to getting some back, they are not our current priority.

ahh I get it now, I think. Will have to ponder some more 'cos I think my time has greater value than that.

Never argued the debt is non-existant, it started because dispite a full and honest Statement of Affairs, detailing our Ins&Outs, which was initially setup by a DM Company, and clearly stated our resolve to make payments towards said debt, NCO still, dispite being told that we would only communicate by letter, wrote 'telling' us to ring to discuss the proposed payment. We're lucky in the fact that, at some time in the near future (3-hopefully 6months), I will recieve a small unexpected inheritance, enough to offer a reasonable lump sum in F&F payment. So basically, my actions here are to show solidarity with my fellows on this site and get these DCAs to accept some responsibility for their actions some 'stalling time' to allow us to decide exactly what we want to do next, in part 'cos my Outs are creeping up and we have less spare to use. I DON'T want to loose my debt, just manage it lawfully, as I expect my DCAs to do.

So basically, if u dont know its happening and therefore dont object, you're naffed. So what we need is a great big mass mailer to every DCA saying 'you have not consent'. Anyway, thats a sideline for me, as I've never recieve diddlysquat from NCO Europe Ltd, all my processing is NCO (uk). But thanks for the input, and keeping me on the right track

While I see where meagain is comming from, I disagree in that it is you doing the work that you are charging for, not billing someone for something they have done.. Think of it as being self-employed. Then again, the tax-man will just take the lot. lol

Why should it be classed as a penelty, my solicitor charges £140 an hour, and all it is is time for fact finding reseach, letter writing, etc.

No they didnt. Please remember I sent a CCA request on April19, they received it on Tuesday 20th, and had application form returned dated 27th April (see previos post showing scan). At NO time beforem or in-between, did we have anything from either/any version of NCO.

Thinking about it, (told you I have way too much time on my hands) I feel that it'll be in my OHs best interests if I wait till I recieve a reply, and then contact NCO (uk) with regard to who authorised the passing of the data, and more importantly, a true copy of my OHs authorisation to do so.