Help needed re Lowell Financial & CCA

[clutchingatstraws]

In need of a boost read this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/90012-just-been-court-cl.html

 

 

TS is TS

 

Court is Court

 

A judge is independent

 

A CCA contains all the prescribed an application form is an application form.

[dannyboy660]

any suggestions anyone?

 

One thing springs to my mind. Ignore them. Don't pay them. (That's two:cool: )

 

They can either;-

 

1) Issue court documents, in which case you can defend on the grounds Lowell have not proven you should be paying them, like you said above. They have not proven they own they debt and have not yet produced a valid CCA. You can do all this with the help of the court. If you lose, the worse thing that can happen is they will make you pay at a rate you can afford.

 

2) More likely they will realise they don't have the legal docs to do anything and rather than risk the expense of losing a court case, they give up. You still get all the usual threats etc. from the automated threatogram letter generator, but when it eventually gets looked at by a human(?) they realise they can't do anything and pass it back to OC.

 

That's what I would do - because the way I see it you can't lose whatever happens.

 

All the best.

[Bigmac versus]

Maggieboo can i ask you if they are still contacting you over this alleged debt, phone/letter or both?

[maggieboo]

Thanks Cas and Dannyboy, this site is great, there's always some moral support when you need it!

 

I was worried as the TS person I spoke to wanted to phone Lowells to ask if I should be paying them and how much did they want me to pay them!

 

So I did write back to TS last week, purely to reiterate what my actual complaint was about, ie, failure to comply with CCA request and ignoring my attempts to resolve the issue, constantly threatening legal action. I also enclosed quotes from the OFT guidelines for debt collection and showed how Lowells had gone against these guidelines in the way they were demanding money.

 

I've decided that now all I can do is sit and wait to see what comes through the letterbox. I know that it is highly unlikely that lowells will take me to court, and even if they do I've got such a stack of correspondence between us that consists of their bullying letters and my polite replies, so I know that it is all in my favour, especially as they have not proved that they actually own the debt.

 

Maggieboo can i ask you if they are still contacting you over this alleged debt, phone/letter or both?

 

Bigmac versus, in answer to your question, the last letter that I had from Lowells was dated 8th June in which they said that they were going to get statements from Barclaycard and then I would have to pay them. There has been nothing since, and I am lucky as they have never phoned me and I certainly won't be phoning them. It's a bit worrying though as the TS advised me to phone Lowells to sort things out!

 

I CCA'd Lowells on 14th April, they sent back the copy application form on 23rd April and then I had letters from them on 21st, 30th and 31st May requesting payment and the last one on 8th June as mentioned above.

 

So, as I said earlier, I will just sit and wait now.

 

[Bigmac versus]

Sounds a plan Maggieboo.

[diskmandave]

Maggieboo, which Trading Standards did you complain to? Yours,

Consumer advice and protection - A-Z of services

 

Or Leeds?

Leeds City Council - Trading standards - West Yorkshire Trading Standards

 

It might be worth having a go with whichever is 'the other one', if you see what I mean! Unfortunately all TS's are different and run from their own rule book...

 

Just worth a think about too... Was the debt disputed in anyway before it was sold to Lowell Financial? If it was it shouldn't have been sold on, and also if still in dispute LF shouldn't be chasing you!

 

Good to see great advise from BmV too

 

Good luck & best wishes, Dave.

[maggieboo]

Maggieboo, which Trading Standards did you complain to? Yours,

Consumer advice and protection - A-Z of services

 

Or Leeds?

Leeds City Council - Trading standards - West Yorkshire Trading Standards

 

It might be worth having a go with whichever is 'the other one', if you see what I mean! Unfortunately all TS's are different and run from their own rule book...

 

Just worth a think about too... Was the debt disputed in anyway before it was sold to Lowell Financial? If it was it shouldn't have been sold on, and also if still in dispute LF shouldn't be chasing you!

 

Good to see great advise from BmV too

 

Good luck & best wishes, Dave.

 

Hi Dave

 

I complained to my local TS, they phoned me again yesterday to say that under CCA regulations Lowells only have to send me documents if they have got them, it might prove difficult for them to get hold of them considering the age of the debt. TS also said that they could not do anything as it was out of their remit and that they don't actually deal with this area of CCAs, I really just had to pay up and that the letters from Lowells are only computer generated and nothing to worry about, but if I phoned Lowells and actually spoke to someone then it might be a way to resolve my issue without any more problems!:o If only it were that simple and if only DCAs were as pleasant as my TS advisor thinks they are!

 

She also went on to say that even if it did go to court it wouldn't really be too much bother, because I would only have to prove what I could afford to pay and then pay that amount. Obviously the stress and worry of going to court and taking time off work etc is not a big factor!

 

I really don't think I've anything to lose by sending everything off to Leeds TS, the worse they can do is send it back.

 

Thanks everyone for advice and kind words, much appreciated.

 

Oh and by the way Dave, the debt wasn't disputed, I was paying Mercers a token £1.00 a month for several years when Lowells appeared on the scene.

[Bigmac versus]

Any news Maggie?

[maggieboo]

Hi Bigmac

 

No news. The last letter I had from Lowells was on 8th June where they said they were going to get copies of all my statements to send to me.

 

I sent everything off to my local TS but they didn't want to know, they said that they do not deal with this sort of thing.

 

I did consider making a complaint to Leeds TS but because I haven't heard anything from Lowells for a while now, I've left it. If I do start getting nonsense from them again then I might take the Leeds TS route, but for now I shall leave things as they are.

 

Thanks for asking though!

[Bigmac versus]

think thats a wise move for now

[itsamomentintime]

dear me. this highlights a big problem with regards to TS

 

diskmandaves were really on the ball yet maggieboos dont know the law

 

an application form isnt a CCA

 

idiots

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi

Local trading standards departments and the Office of Fair Trading enforce the Act. That is there job.

You want to write back to T/S and demand they do what the tax payers employe them to do.

Its got nothing to do with who owes who, they have not supplied you with the correct CCA so T/S have to get involved.

 

I would also consider making a complaint to the The Local Government Ombudsman as they are not doing there job.

 

She also went on to say that even if it did go to court it wouldn't really be too much bother, because I would only have to prove what I could afford to pay and then pay that amount. Obviously the stress and worry of going to court and taking time off work etc is not a big factor!

 

Also what right has she got giving you advise like this. Get her name and report her

[maggieboo]

Hi ro55e30

 

you probably realised, but the sentence in pink is not the TS lady's words, just me peed off at the time.

 

Quote:

 

She also went on to say that even if it did go to court it wouldn't really be too much bother, because I would only have to prove what I could afford to pay and then pay that amount. Obviously the stress and worry of going to court and taking time off work etc is not a big factor!

 

Also what right has she got giving you advise like this. Get her name and report her

 

But you're right, it's not helpful advice she's given, and I'm lucky that I've found this site because a few months ago I didn't know anything that I do now. There's a lot of people out there that would rely on the advice that they are given by TS and it's worrying that they don't all seem to agree on what to do. (Although of course many of them are V helpful).

[maggieboo]

Hi

Local trading standards departments and the Office of Fair Trading enforce the Act. That is there job.

You want to write back to T/S and demand they do what the tax payers employe them to do.

Its got nothing to do with who owes who, they have not supplied you with the correct CCA so T/S have to get involved.

 

I would also consider making a complaint to the The Local Government Ombudsman as they are not doing there job.

 

 

 

Also what right has she got giving you advise like this. Get her name and report her

 

I've been looking at my local TS/county council website and there is a document on there stating the legislation that is enforced by the Trading Standards Service. No 5 on their list is the Consumer Credit Act 1974 with a subsection of "controls debt collecting and credit reference agencies". Now my TS officer stated the Consumer Credit Act was out of her area of remit, so I have drafted the following letter to this lady to query why she was unable to help me when their website says that this is what they do.

 

 

 

 

Further to our recent letters and telephone conversations, I wish to refer back to some of the advice that you gave me.

 

I am confused as you informed me on the telephone that the Consumer Credit Act is an area that is not within your remit and therefore you could not help me with this, but whilst researching this Act I discovered on the East Sussex County Council Trading Standards website that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is legislation that is enforced by the Trading Standards Service.

 

I do not understand why you were unable to help me.

 

I therefore assume that as Trading Standards has so many consumer issues and complaints to deal with, that maybe a different department of the Trading Standards would deal with it?

 

Therefore I would be most grateful if you could pass my original complaint and file onto a Trading Standards Officer that does deal with the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

Thanking you in anticipation.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

does this sound alright?

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Further to our recent letters and telephone conversations, I wish to refer back to some of the advice that you gave me.

 

I am confused as you informed me on the telephone that the Consumer Credit Act is an area that is not within your remit and therefore you could not help me with this, but whilst researching this Act I discovered on the East Sussex County Council Trading Standards website that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is legislation that is enforced by the Trading Standards Service.

 

I do not understand why you were unable to help me.

 

I therefore am asking you to look into this matter as the law instucts you to do so.

 

If you fail to look into my request within a reasonable time scale I will be making a complaint to the The Local Government Ombudsman about your refusal to enforce the act

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Yours sincerely

Try this one it may get them twitching.

 

RO

[maggieboo]

I've been looking at my local TS/county council website and there is a document on there stating the legislation that is enforced by the Trading Standards Service. No 5 on their list is the Consumer Credit Act 1974 with a subsection of "controls debt collecting and credit reference agencies". Now my TS officer stated the Consumer Credit Act was out of her area of remit, so I have drafted the following letter to this lady to query why she was unable to help me when their website says that this is what they do.

 

 

 

 

Further to our recent letters and telephone conversations, I wish to refer back to some of the advice that you gave me.

 

I am confused as you informed me on the telephone that the Consumer Credit Act is an area that is not within your remit and therefore you could not help me with this, but whilst researching this Act I discovered on the East Sussex County Council Trading Standards website that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is legislation that is enforced by the Trading Standards Service.

 

I do not understand why you were unable to help me.

 

I therefore assume that as Trading Standards has so many consumer issues and complaints to deal with, that maybe a different department of the Trading Standards would deal with it?

 

Therefore I would be most grateful if you could pass my original complaint and file onto a Trading Standards Officer that does deal with the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

Thanking you in anticipation.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

does this sound alright?

 

 

Well, I faxed this letter and enclosure to my TS on Monday and they phoned me yesterday to say that there appeared to have a been a misunderstanding between us.

 

Apparantly I misunderstood her. When she told me originally that CCA was out of her area of remit, she didn't say this at all! Apparantly she had told me that the Money Advice Service was out of her area of remit and therefore I had completely misunderstood her and everything that we had talked about. She also knew that the misunderstanding was on my part because she had written down notes during our conversation. Silly me.

 

I pointed out that I had also taken notes, and had written to her with follow up letters clarifying our conversations, so why did she not inform me of the misunderstandings when she had got my letters?

 

She went on to say that I had refused her offers of help and she had this in writing from me. I pointed out that the only help she had offered me was not wanted because she only wanted to phone Lowells to check that I should be paying them and how much did they want me to pay! Of course I'm going to decline from that kind of help!

 

But anyhow, she did go on to say that I could use section 78 of the consumer credit act 1974 in my defence if lowells did take me to court, I could say that they have not supplied me with a fully executed agreement therefore they cannot make me pay and then it would be up to a judge to decide. She also said that the Consumer Credit Act covered civil and criminal law and that my problem was civil and it was a complicated act.

 

i asked very politely why she hadn't told me this in the first place, it was clear from my letters what my complaint was about and she just said again how complicated it all was and that I had misunderstood her.

 

she had basically tried to fob me off with my original complaint and then had an awful lot of back tracking to try and cover up her bad advice when i challenged her with my letter.

 

So i'm not any further with things, still sitting and waiting in case i hear from lowells again, but I am glad i challenged her about her lack of help, thanks RO for your advice & suggestion here!

[dannyboy660]

It seems to be pot luck with TS and their staff. Some are a lot better than others.

 

I stand by my post 77, and I'm willing to bet Lowell will just move on to their next victim. They do give up eventually if you stick to your guns and don't acknowledge their right to payment. There's really not much else they can do when they realise you won't be bullied into paying them.

 

When did you last hear from them??

[maggieboo]

hi danny

 

i agree, some TS have been helpful and others not.

 

I've re-read your post 77, and you're quite right, i won't be any worse off whatever the outcome.

 

I haven't heard from lowells since 8th June, nearly 2 months ago now, so with any luck they will just clear off and leave me alone quite soon. I first heard from them on 15th November 2006, so they have been trying their luck with me for some time now. it must be about time they gave up, they seem to leave other people alone much sooner so I don't know why they've clung onto me for such a long time!

[rgrgrgrg]

Hi All...!

 

I've stumbled upon this excellent Forum, whilst in dispute with Lowells over.....guess what..?

 

An ANCIENT Barclaycard debt..!!!

 

I am at the "pass your account over to our Legal Department"-stage.......

 

I, too, feel it would be for the best if they DID take me to court...!

 

I've written several letters (all sent "signed-for"), which they appear to have totally disregarded...!

 

I, too, will be going the Trading Standards / FOS route with these clowns...

 

I've just sent the initial complaint letter to Lowells: awaiting the reply.

 

I also received, on CCA request, a VERY poor copied application form......

 

It seems Lowells took this over in Nov 2006: that's when the letters started, and seems the same with lots of people..?

 

Bet it was Nigel Beaven sent the letters.....!

[maggieboo]

hi rgrgrgrg

 

welcome to the lowells/barclaycard/nigel beaven club!

 

more importantly welcome to CAG, you have found an excellent website:D and you will get so much help.

 

the best thing to do would be to start your own thread if you need any particular help.

 

good luck with lowells!

[rgrgrgrg]

Is Nigel Beaver a REAL person....?

 

..or just a generic contact name, used to shield the staff from personal abuse? (which they clearly deserve, and WOULD receive..!)

[Bigmac versus]

Hi Maggie are you that sick of lowells your picking on TS now:D

[maggieboo]

Hi Maggie are you that sick of lowells your picking on TS now:D

 

i'm sick of it all now! and i've recently CCA'd cabot and am about to start on AIC and Halifax.

 

now that I am feeling brave because of all the stuff I have learnt here i promise i will only pick on DCA's from now on!:grin:

[Bigmac versus]

Thats the spirit, go get em.

[maggieboo]

And so the saga continues...

 

This is all getting rather boring now. I got the following letter from Lowells yesterday with 3 similar statements:-

 

 

 

I've drafted a letter to send to them, but really it's so obvious that they haven't got the CCA or anything to prove that they should have my money and now we are back at square one.

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Thank you for your letter dated 17th August 2007 in which you enclose papers that are headed “copy statement”. I note that the “copy statements” quite clearly state that no payments are due.

 

These documents are unacceptable as there is no evidence whatsoever that they are from Barclaycard and in any event copy statements alone are not proof that a debt exists or that an individual is liable for an alleged debt. I also query why the statements are dated January, February and March 2007 when you purchased the alleged debt in November 2006? Barclaycard cannot issue statements for an account they no longer own.

 

I sent a CCA request to your company on 14th April 2007 and I received a reply dated 20th April 2007 in which your company enclosed a very poor quality copy of an application form. I received this copy application form on 26th April 2007.

 

Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s77/78 the document you are obliged to provide me with is a true copy of the executed agreement containing all the prescribed terms.

 

Due to your failure to comply with the CCA request, this account is currently in dispute.

 

You will be aware that whilst this account is in dispute you are unable to pass this matter onto any third parties or instruct solicitors to issue legal proceedings.

 

By continuing to demand payment from me without complying with the CCA request within the prescribed legal time limits you have committed a summary offence, which can carry a jail sentence and a maximum fine of £5,000. In addition you are not allowed to enforce the debt while the failure to supply the correct document continues.

 

I have lodged a formal complaint with my local Trading Standards office as you continue to demand payment from me despite not fulfilling the CCA request.

 

I request that you provide me with a copy of your complaints procedure.

 

As you have been unable to provide any of the correct documentation during the nine month period that you have been harassing me, may I suggest that it is now time for you to bring this matter to a close by admitting that you are not in a position to pursue this alleged debt due to the fact that you do not have any of the correct and legal paperwork. You should now close this file and reduce the balance to zero.

 

I note from your letter that you may have to pass this matter onto your legal department. I would like to point out that you have already done this several months ago. Threatening legal action is not a professional way to extract money from individuals.

 

As you are aware from previous correspondence I will only contact you by letter, not telephone.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Is there any point in me replying to their letter or should I just ignore them? I've done the TS route who don't want to know and now I feel completely stuck. :?

 

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do now, or any ways I can improve my letter to them?

 

They just won't leave me alone.

 

Thank you anyone that can help.