Citi Loans Scam?????!!

[bungleboy]

hiya folks, can anybody out there help me out with this real tricky situation?? you may need a pen and paper!!lol

 

I want to get to the bottom of this mess, I'd love to claim back all of my PPI's and I can no longer afford to pay this debt anymore, I desperaitely need help.

 

on the 23/08/00 i borrowed £1.000 from citi an optional ins was added £145 and a £50 arrangement fee: £1,195.80 in total £126.56 per month over 12 mths @ variable 72%(variable) per annum. I continue to pay this for 7 months 7 x £126.56 = £886.04.

 

On this 7th month i borrow a further £2436.45 but they refinanced £563.36 + £1001.18 insurance + £100 arr fee = £4100.99 @ 35.5% (variable)apr.payments were 36x£171.53. I pay this for 6 mths = £1029.18.

 

On the 6th month I decide to borrow £1693.48 they consolidate £3306.52 + £2168.05 + £100 arr fee=£7268.05@ 34% (variable)apr. this was over 48 mths @ £256.88. I pay this for 6 months 6x£256.88=£770.64. I come into some money and decide to get rid!! but citi will not give me the final settlement figure that i paid !!

 

Oh, its not over yet folks it get realy good!!

 

April 2005 I borrow some money for a car, £5500.00+£734.77 insurance+£100 arr fee. This totals £6334.77@35%(variable)apr. over 60 months this will cost £203.49. I pay this for 15 months. 15x£203.49=£3052.35.

 

On the 15th month I borrow £3000. Bugger me they consolidate "£8897.64" + £2388.87 insurance+£150 arr fee @ 17.6% (variable)apr. This was over 60 months @ £349.55.

 

I pay this for 27 months. £349.55x27=£9627.75...

 

you ready for the next??

 

On the 27mth I go to see them because im now begining to struggle with my payments. They were so reassuring, pop in to see us lets see how we can help you!! pheew thank god they understand......

 

"Well" he said we have just reduced our interest rate down, perhaps we can get you a lower rate?!

 

He comes back to me and tells me that if i were to borrow a further £1442.63 we can again consolidate your old loan and you will be paying less!!!! BRILLIANT!!

 

SO:

 

I borrow the £1442.63 and he then consolidated(£13557.37)!!!!!!!!!! I escaped with only £115.00 insurance + £150 arr fee. Total ammout payable: £19642.00??????( inclues £4487.70 interest). Interest rate is 10.39% per annum.

 

This is over 60 months@ £327.37. I have now paid 6 x £327.37=£1364.22..but I still have 54 months left!!!!!!!

 

I realy can no longer afford these payments. Id love somebody to work these figures out for me before i go stomping in to the trading standards. I have requested a full SAR, and have asked them how this has been calculated. I'd love to at least get some of my PIP's back from them, but i'm not sure if i can do that??

 

I'm begging you guys to help with this, I just cannot afford this any longer..please,please,please help!!

 

Good work to all within all other forums, keep up the good work!!

[Enron]

Does sound like you've got yourself into a pickle.

 

You could possibly argue miss selling, if you have purchased PPI with your loans do they cover you if you are having problems maintaining your payments?

 

These needs to be looked at, but by someone alot more knowledgable than myself.

 

It might be an idea to PM martin3030 including a link to this post, and he should be able to point you in the direction of someone who has a good knowledge of loans.

[caro]

As I understand it, if the PPI is added to the loan at the beginning, which means that you are paying interest on it, then it has been mis-sold.

 

I am in a similar situation myself with Yorkshire Bank and am trying to suss out how much I am owed. I think you'll need a spreadsheet to get to grips with it. You also need to consider whether you have paid any early redemption charges. If you have, you need to work out the proportion that is PPI and claim that.

 

I'll explain how I'm tackling it and see if that helps.

 

Your first loan 1000.00

Insurance 145.00

Arrangement fee 50.00

Total 1195.00

 

So the insurance is 145 parts of 1195 or 145/1195

 

At this stage you have paid nothing so they don't owe you anything until you've made a payment.

 

On a spreadsheet put down the date of the first payment. You paid 126.56 and of that 145/1195 was PPI. That is the same each month until the new loan.

 

When you refinanced, 145/1195 of 563.36 was for PPI.

 

So for your new loan you add 145/1195 of 563.36 to the new insurance, and work out what fraction of that new loan is PPI. Whatever the fraction of the loan is, should be applied to the new repayments.

Keep repeating the process.

 

I hope this makes sense to you.

 

As I say I'm in the early stages of putting together a similar claim myself so this is very much work in progress, and I'm thinking I may try and develop a spreadsheet to help with it. Trouble is I'm short on time at the moment, and I'm not sure if I could do it anyway, but I will have a go some time.

 

By the way, in the meantime I suggest you tell Citi that you want to cancel any and all PPI you have with them, unless you think you need it. As I understand it, the PPI covers an amount over a period of time. It could be that you got off lightly last time, as you are still covered by an earlier one, or even two. Ask them to look into it and refund you any that is unused, even if they just take it off the loan, and reduce your payments. Whatever you do, don't let them consolidate again.

 

Can I just check that you are in employment, not self-employed, retired or anything like that.

 

I'm going to move your thread to the PPI forum as you will get better help and advice there.

 

This link should help explain about claiming PPI. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/ppi/61081-ppi-some-notes-claimants.html

[bungleboy]

thanks guys for your help!! yes i am employed, but i realy cannot afford to pay this loan. I'll try to calculate this caro. Do you think it would be worth my while to go str8 to a small claims court?

[reidnet]

Hi,

Sadly I dont think you can go directly to small claims court on this one, before you take any legal action against a company you should be able to prove that you have at least complained to the company and given them a reasonable chance to sort the problem out before any legal action.

 

If you were told at the time of these loans that PPI was a requirement to obtain the loans then that is a clear case of Mis-Selling, though as I have found some companies will defend this and normally come back with something along the lines of , you signed for PPI. I have been caught like this a couple of times, 1 Case has been settled but the other case has been ongoing from about October last year.

 

I have not had any dealings with Citi Loans so I do not know how they will handle any complaint regarding mis-sold PPI, Maybe someone else in the PPI forum with Knowledge of Citi Loans will be able to help.

 

Good Luck

 

Ian

[bungleboy]

Thanks Reidnet for the info!! These were in fact mis-sold, i was told that if i did not have the ppi's the chances were that the applications would get declined. So like a fool i have obliged. I'M WORRIED SICK, I DON'T THINK I CAN GO ON FOR THE NEXT 54 MONTHS PAYING THIS AMMOUNT OF CASH!! At the time things were different, but circumstances do change and im now in a mess!!

[caro]

As I understand it, if the PPI is added to the loan at the beginning, which means that you are paying interest on it, then it has been mis-sold.

 

 

Ian, am I right about this bit?

 

I've had no dealings with Citi myself, but I do know that they aren't the easiest bank to claim from.

[reidnet]

Hi Caro,

Sorry about the delay getting back on this one, Just been busy taking the house back off the market and remorgaging etc etc.. Oh and have promised OH that I will fit new Kitchen in a couple of weeks..arghhh.

 

I know that once the FSA started to regulate the sale of PPI, that any PPI taken out along with a loan had to be split seperately so that the actual cost of the policy and Interest on the PPI had to be shown seperate from the Loan. I am looking into this in more detail along with another issue I have with Lloyds yet again..lol.

 

According to the CCA regulations too they have to show on the agreement the total charges for credit, GE did not show this on my original agreement, thet replied that if the APR was variable they were not obliged to state the cost of credit, Again Im still looking into this.

 

Ian

[bungleboy]

Good work.....

 

Please keep us informed of any progress!!!!

[bungleboy]

HELP!!!!

 

last week iwrote to citi requesting a full break down of all my loans with them. they have all been consolidated from one to the other. as you will see from the begining of this page I have had all the ppi's consolidated too!! I'm in mega debt with them, all down to ppi's...

 

citi have just called me to ask where this months payment is and to ask me for a £30 charge to give me the information. basically i told them where to go, i told them that unless they waver the £30 and for the benefit of doubt...send me the exact way and calculations they have made to my loans then i will not be paying any more money to them..we shall let the courts decide.

 

I asked them to prove me wrong, and in which case i shall pay all money that i owe to them back if this was to be the case. I'm almost certain about these calculations 100%...........have i done the right thing declining the installment and the £30 charge ??

 

Please can somebody advise me of this by the morning as they will be calling me back!!!!??

 

Any advise PLEASE?????

[caro]

Bungleboy, did you send Citi a SAR? If so they can only charge 10.00 for that. I have not had dealings with Citi myself, but I understand that they are very hard to deal with.

 

I am not convinced that you have gone the best way about dealing with this, and am in unfamiliar territory here myself. Have you done your calculations, and do you know that all the debt is down to PPI? Have you had any charges, such as late payment charges too? If you know that you owe them money, then you can't really just stop paying in my opinion, although if you can't afford the payments, then maybe you should try and renegotiate them.

 

You could perhaps send them a CCA request, and basically if they can't provide you with a signed copy of the loan agreement, then they cannot enforce the debt.

 

Would you say that the PPI is your biggest problem, or the debt that you can't afford. I'm beginning to think that maybe I should move your thread again, but this time to the debt forum.

 

I think we need to know the full story before we can advise properly.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes agreed Caroline.

The 10.00 SAR should cover it.

A CCA request in itself would also invoke suspension of any further recoveries by bthem until it was complied with.

You are right to say that Citi are difficult to deal with in fact thats putting it mildly.

However despite their efforts we have managed to keep on top of them and are fairly up to speed on how to address things they continually throw up.

I go with your suggestions here that more info is needed to advise further.

Issues relating to PPI are not issues that have been widescale with most Citi claimants but the way to address them obviously depends on having more info specifically about the claim.

I reckon the Citi forum would be best for this since the debt forums are less likely to be aware of how Citi operate,with regards to claimants.

[caro]

When they ring you could tell them that you are placing the account in dispute, and in theory at least they should not take any action against you. As Martin is an expert on Citi I will move your thread back there for others to see and advise.

[bungleboy]

OH THANKS YOU LOT!!! have you looked at my original calculation? Im certain that all of this debt is PPI. lets say that half way though my loan(which the PPI was added at the begining of the loan) i decide to borrow again. they will jus take the remainder and put it straight on to the new consolidated loan...and so on and so on.....

 

The thing is. ITV have approached me, and they are in possesion of my loan agreements...they want me to go on a new programme about Debt and how i got into debt. I told citi this tonight hoping to put the wind up them!! this is genuine, they realy have approached me, and i realy am going on TV!!

 

I can assure them I will take advantage of this and i'll fight them all the way. but I realy cannot afford to pay this debt any longer, I have a further 54 months of bloody £327.00....Ive only ever borrowed a maximum of £9000 and have paid nearly all that back!

 

to give you more info would take for ever!! so what do you suggest? should i pay this months £327.00 and the £30 for the S.A.R ??

 

The guy was asking me all sorts of questions, who the legal team for th ITV was etc.etc...

 

He's calling me back tomorrow to see if i want to pay up??....i might go to bed now and have a good old cry!!lol

 

HELP MEEEEEEEEEEE!!

[caro]

Given the big announcement about ITV wanting to interview people on debt no doubt you are genuine about this. As you have the loan agreements it seems the loans are indeed enforceable, but the legal maximum fee for a SAR is 10.00 and for that they have to provide you with everything to do with your dealings with them right back as far as it goes.

[reidnet]

Hi,

Just having a quick look through the calculations here, I dont think all of the debt is built up with the PPI cahrges, What it looks like to me is that every time you have taken out a further advance they have settled your previous loan in full and each time they have started a new PPI policy along with each loan. Looking at what they have charged for Insurance to be honest I dont think that is the main cause of the high debt.

 

No doubt when they settled all the previous loans the will have calculated the early settlement Interest charge using the rule of 78, which is now no longer used as the both the FSA and OFT considered this method of calculating Early settlement charges to be unfair to the consumer.

On any loans taken out after 2005 the rule of 78 is no longer allowed to be used in CCA's, The maximmum they can now charge as an early settlement Interest charge is equal to and no more than One Months Interest.

 

If you can I would ask them to provide you with full details of how each loan settlement figure was calculated, ask them also to state the amount that was given as PPI rebate. These rebates are normally very small compared to the actual PPI cost, and example of that I can give was on a PPI policy that I was Charged £3388 for plus Interest over the whole period of the loan (£4500) making the true cost of the policy over £7500,

Now the policy only lasted 5 years but the loan was over 15, When I settled the loan after 3 Years the rebate I got for the PPI was a massive £97.00. Maybe that is why I have such a bee in my bonnet about the whole PPI rip off market, and thats why I spend as much time and effort on the subject.

 

If you are trying to reclaim the PPI costs , you will have to have some grounds for the PPI being mis-sold to you , eg No PPI then no Loan etc.

They cannot make PPI a condition of obtaining credit , PPI should always be Optional, Though from experience I know that this is very often not made clear. I am in the middle of a case against GE Money for mis-selling PPI and it has been a hard long slogging match so far, I am in Court in Wolverhampton (700 mile round trip for me too) on the 22nd for an Allocation hearing on that case. GE are not an easy lot to deal with either, they have no respect at all for consumers or the Law.

 

If you can get a hold of all the original agreements and settlement figures we may be in a better position to plan a way for you to try and recover at least some of your money and hopefully reduce your debt by a good bit.

 

Im sure Martin will give you all the help with Citi as he has had dealing with them.

 

Good Luck

and dont let them get you down M8,

 

Ian

[bungleboy]

well today I have sent them a registered letter. I have spoken to a lawyer whom I shall be using if this thing goes to court. I have 2 options about paying this months £327.00, either I don't pay, in which case if they do prove me wrong (which is most definately not the case) or I do pay...WITH A CONDITION!! This condition is that they give me EXACT final figure settlements of all the loans that have been consolidated within 7days. But under no cicumstances should i pay £30...just £10 !!

 

If they agree then i shall pay this months payment on the seventh day of receipt, in which case i have agreed to compromise.

 

I have asked to see a full breakdown of all my agreements which must show the exact amount of consolidation, and any refunds on the PPI's.

 

I just hope that CITI are taking me very serious!!

 

Not only will I go onto the TV and name and shame them....but lucky for me I have a best friend in london who is a freelance journalist and story writer for some VERY VERY well known magazines, and guess what, she also wants a piece!!

 

At the moment I'm feeling very good about the whole thing.......I just hope citi are ready!!!!!!!??

 

lets get ready to RUMBLLLLLLEEEEE!!!!!!!!

[hayley]

Hi Bungleboy

 

I wish you all the luck in the world with this one Citi Finance are complete s**** they have had me in tears so many times, i had a loan with them in October 2004 and paid it off in February 2005 (5 months) and they charged me £5428.71 insurance for the 5 months i had the loan. Have a look at my thread

 

Citi Finance in the mortage section

 

And if your journalist friend wants my story too she is more than welcome, i would do anything to name and shame these cowboys.

 

Good luck with it all, i will be keeping an eye on this.

 

Hayley

[bungleboy]

thanks hayley..........!! I'll have em. this ones for you!!

[bungleboy]

I have had some advisor look at my agreements!!

 

look at this as an actuall breakdown!!..

 

overall i have borrowed £9.942.63.

in total so far I have paid them back £12.963.54.

thats £3020.91 over my actuall sum i borrowed.

I still owe them £18,005.35 !!!!

 

so with the £12.963.54 that I have paid + £18.005.35

comes to a total of £30.968.89....I only borrowed £9.942.63 !!

 

which means £21.026.26 goes to them!!!

 

twenty one thousand pounds!!!!!!!!!

 

What a bunch of (edit)!!!

[caro]

That is scandalous Bungleboy. Now you know where you stand you can start to tackle it. Just take your time and read as much as you can. Just take a step at a time and let us know what help you need and progress you make.

[hayley]

I have had some advisor look at my agreements!!

 

look at this as an actuall breakdown!!..

 

overall i have borrowed £9.942.63.

in total so far I have paid them back £12.963.54.

thats £3020.91 over my actuall sum i borrowed.

I still owe them £18,005.35 !!!!

 

so with the £12.963.54 that I have paid + £18.005.35

comes to a total of £30.968.89....I only borrowed £9.942.63 !!

 

which means £21.026.26 goes to them!!!

 

twenty one thousand pounds!!!!!!!!!

 

What a bunch of (edit)

 

Hi Bungleboy

 

I worked it out that if i had continued my loan with Citi i would of paid them back £75565.65 on top of the money i borrowed. I so hope we can do something about these morons.

 

Hayley:-|

[bungleboy]

hayley, we will....!! thanks caro for your help!! have a great sunday both!

[gizmo111]

bunglebly is this a secured loan?

[bungleboy]

no gizmo.unsecured!! why do you ask?