Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974

[hsbcfiddled]

I agree Car.

 

From my own experience my local branch had the executed agreement all along- and they still didnt get it to me in time- I am lucky that the agreement has been improperly completed.

 

However if my local branch is holding an agreement from February 2004 does this mean other branches are holding such agreements from the same period?

If so, there is no need to send cobbled agreements. unless the original is lost or improper executed.

[car2403]

It would be a logistical nightmare trying to find which branch executed - and therefore should hold - the original agreement, though. Which is why I think they'll get away with a copy under a CCA request, but won't when it comes to Court.

 

On the other side of the argument, though, is the fact that creditors must have been aware of the 1974 legislation when executing agreements in the 1980's - never mind the more recent ones! If they weren't, they are just being irresponsible lenders and deserve everything they get, IMO.

 

It all depends what the opinion of the Judge you get is though - which makes this a lottery, despite being clearly enacted at Parliaments intention!

[ScarletPimpernel]

I am embroiled in a battle with HSBC who have confirmed in writing that they have no signed agreement, and admitted that they know it to be unenforceable, yet have registered a default and say that they will be 'continuing our normal collections process'.

 

I'm not bothered about the collections bit - in fact I rather look forward to telling MCS to gain height, turn to the right and feck off.

 

However, HSBC's response to a s.10 notice about the default was to maintain that they have fulfilled their obligations under the CCA in re the agreement, and so their 'Legal Department' tells them that the default is OK. I think they have CCA and DPA issues arse about face. However, when I raised the issue of consent to process data they simply responded with 'we consider that this correspondence is now too protracted and this is our final response' - so no answer at all, then.

 

I suppose I will have to go to Court to enforce the s.10, using the lack of a signed agreement as evidence of no consent. What I want to know is this: can they claim that using the account is sufficient evidence of agreement? I know this doesn't work for the CCA, but what about the DPA?

[car2403]

It's the ICO's opinion that this is evidence of consent, but regardless of whether you consented to using the account, they need express written permission to share your data with a CRA under s.35 DPA or they commit a criminal office.

 

The ICO view is only an opinion and isn't binding on a Court, so bring a claim and argue your case, I say.

 

This is what I'm doing with Barclays;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/110184-car2403-barclays-bank-default.html

[Dougal16T]

Good evening,

Whilst I agree with all that is said here....WARNING the Consumer will find that TS are VERY loath to start a prosecution. I discovered this from personal experience, I wrote to TS with a compaint about non-compliance by Northern Rock plc and all of the evidence needed to commence a prosecution was in the envelope - BUT NO REPLY HAS EVER BEEN RECEIVED from TS...so after 3 months I telephoned TS, only to be told....we don't get involved in these matters....you need to speak to the OFT or the Ombudsman, so I called the Ombudsman and they said that basically they were not interested unless there was 'actual monetary loss', and 'breaches of the

CCA Act were not considered 'worth pursuing', as they did not want to 'fire a warning shot across the bows' of anyone who might have broken the Law, because the 1974 CCA had 'been replaced' by the 2005 Consmer Credit Act .....??? Methinks this is a 'wheels within wheels' situation - draw your own conclsions...!!

It is much better to take the evidence of non-compliance with the CCAct1974 to the OFT direct.

Keep claiming..remember it's your money you're after!!!!

Best wishes to everyone

Dougal

[creditcrunch]

If you wish to complain about the CRIMINAL aspect of non-compliance I would think there is no harm in writing to TRADING STANDARDS, the OFT..........even your local MP.............and asking for a WRITTEN REPLY within 14 days......................Is there anyone else to put on the list ??..................Its only going to cost a quid in postage each time and it may hurry things along.................................This is NOT LEGAL ADVICE from me.............just seems common sense.

[fernack]

Hi again ... sorry to harp on ...

I have sent off 3 CCas. What should i do next? What if I receive CCA which is correct or incorrect? Maybe I am trying to run before I can walk but my mind is working overtime. I will post the CCAs once they appear (On my General Debt thread)

Thanks,

Ann.

[car2403]

fernack, you don't need to do anything until they reply - getting wound up thinking about what might be, when it probably won't turn out that way, is counterproductive.

 

If you are really, really concerned about this, you can follow them up on your request - the general advice given here is that you shouldn't do this, as it may cause them to respond where otherwise they would be in default of the request, but each case is different and it's ultimately your decision as to how to progress in your own case.

[fernack]

thanks car. I only sent the requests yesterday but am browsing various threads and some of the stories are a nightmare!

Hope I am worrying about nothing much !

xxx

[car2403]

Just be careful reading others stories - what happens to them may not happen to you...

[fernack]

Just a quickie ...

 

I posted off 3 CCAs yesterday. Since then have been reading various threads and have noted that some advise that the term I ACKNOWLEDGE NO DEBT WITH YOUR COMPANY, or similar, head each letter. I didn't do this. Will it matter?

Thanks in anticipation, Fernack.

[Goldlady]

I sent mine before people were advising to say that - and they still had the same effect so don't worry.

[shane5408]

Just a quickie ...

 

I posted off 3 CCAs yesterday. Since then have been reading various threads and have noted that some advise that the term I ACKNOWLEDGE NO DEBT WITH YOUR COMPANY, or similar, head each letter. I didn't do this. Will it matter?

Thanks in anticipation, Fernack.

 

don't worry about it to much, it only really applies if there is a chance the debt is statue barred

 

regards,

shane

 

_______________________________________________

All advice is offered freely & without prejudice

 

 

If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

[bazaar]

OK, Heres my take for what its worth,

I have been refused CCA by Bcard because I didnt sign the letter template I sent out, Can they go to court issue CCJ against me while this is dragging on?/

My trouble is I am currently not at my usual address due to work, so it could be a couple of months before I receive any mail. I am in the process of moving back home from USA ( I Know, what for? you may ask) should I get a box number for mail when I return? so that family friends etc are not receiving calls from Mercers. This thread has me confused a little, so any help would be appreciated. I have started my own thread to keep everything in order. thanks again guys, great site, ps. 5% is a small price for the help on here.

[car2403]

OK, Heres my take for what its worth,

I have been refused CCA by Bcard because I didnt sign the letter template I sent out, Can they go to court issue CCJ against me while this is dragging on?/

My trouble is I am currently not at my usual address due to work, so it could be a couple of months before I receive any mail. I am in the process of moving back home from USA ( I Know, what for? you may ask) should I get a box number for mail when I return? so that family friends etc are not receiving calls from Mercers. This thread has me confused a little, so any help would be appreciated. I have started my own thread to keep everything in order. thanks again guys, great site, ps. 5% is a small price for the help on here.

 

Hi bazaar.

 

Be VERY careful here, as I'm interested as to the reason they NEED to have your signature? I'm not casting doubt on their integrity in the slightest, but some companies have been known to use Photoshop to copy signatures from letters sent to copy agreements that weren't originally signed! In fact, the advice many CAG-ers are giving now is to only TYPE your name and not sign anything that you send to any collection department.

 

The Consumer Credit Act also doesn't require you to sign the request in the first place, although they may argue they need this to ensure they only release information to the correct person. I'd counter that argument by clearly showing that you've provided enough info for them to ID you, (such as full name, address on the account and account numbers, etc) if they do bring it up.

[cups]

Hi

 

Just wondering what people think i should do about HFC. I have been paying them for some years,,occasionally get a letter from Weightmans. I got a letter about a review and sent them a CCA. At first they sent a letter saying they didn't have a copy of the agreement but then the following day sent a copy of an 'application form'.

I got a letter template from here sending it back to them saying thanks for the application form, if this is your true copy of the 'agreement' then it is not an enforceable debt.

They then sent me a letter saying that they would look in to me complaint,,I did not complain..

They have just replied saying that they have fully complied as " the copy of the signed agreement you have been provided with states Application, you will note in the signature box, that it states 'this is a credit agrrement regulated by the CCA 1974 and by signing this you want to be legally bound by its terms". They also say that at some point I must have been issued with new terms and conditions if these have changed.

 

They did send me an application form but it had none of the prescribed terms on it such as APR etc,,

 

Is it worth going to the ombudsman or is there another letter that I can send,,or what should I do?

 

Any advice please,,

 

Thanks

 

Cups

[car2403]

Hi cups,

 

The best advice initially to to create your own thread and post up the letters you've sent and responses you've received (personal data removed, of course) which will mean you can get specific advice on your individual case.

 

There's some instructions here if you're unsure;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-forums-website-questions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

I have 2 claims with HFC at the minute and they don't play nicely, so I won't respond to your post here as it may mislead you - once you've got your thread up and running, come back here and post a link and I/others will be able to help you better then.

[sierra28]

In my case the CCJ was granted two years ago. At the time I was not in a fit state to fight it. I have now reviewed the case and the amount my creditor is recieved judgment for is clearly not correct.

I was made redundant just three weeks after I took out the loan with insurance. The insurance was not valid as 30 days had not passed when I was made redundant. yet in the judgment they included all 60 months of insurance payments at £70.62. = £4237. They also included interest on the loan for the full 60 months £4892 and only 30 months had passed by the time they recived judgment.

There was also my over draft of £5000. They did not produce anything other than my bank account application and my debit card application. (i cant find a CCA for the overdraft) I was told my OD was protected for un-employment but when I tried to claim they said it was not.

perhas less imortant thy also included over £1200 of bank charges

They recieved a judgment for a full £27,500.

I have no excuse to have not disputed or appealed as soon as jugment was given other than I had been out of work for over a year had just got a job and was at one of the lowest points in my life. They had really ground me down to a point I thought I just could not fight it. Iwas just confused by all the technical jargon they and the courts were using and I was not given very good advise from the CAB.

 

Please is there a case for me after so much time to appeal for the judgment to be be set aside and a review of the actual amount owed?

 

please help

 

many thanks

[paulwlton]

In my case the CCJ was granted two years ago. At the time I was not in a fit state to fight it. I have now reviewed the case and the amount my creditor is recieved judgment for is clearly not correct.

I was made redundant just three weeks after I took out the loan with insurance. The insurance was not valid as 30 days had not passed when I was made redundant. yet in the judgment they included all 60 months of insurance payments at £70.62. = £4237. They also included interest on the loan for the full 60 months £4892 and only 30 months had passed by the time they recived judgment.

 

There was also my over draft of £5000. They did not produce anything other than my bank account application and my debit card application. (i cant find a CCA for the overdraft) I was told my OD was protected for un-employment but when I tried to claim they said it was not.

perhas less imortant thy also included over £1200 of bank charges

They recieved a judgment for a full £27,500.

I have no excuse to have not disputed or appealed as soon as jugment was given other than I had been out of work for over a year had just got a job and was at one of the lowest points in my life. They had really ground me down to a point I thought I just could not fight it. Iwas just confused by all the technical jargon they and the courts were using and I was not given very good advise from the CAB.

 

Please is there a case for me after so much time to appeal for the judgment to be be set aside and a review of the actual amount owed?

 

please help

 

many thanks

 

Yes, judgments can be challenged many years after they were registered but you need valid arguments. In my case i challenged a judgment because the account contained unlawful charges prior to judgment, the judge allowed me to enter a defence this was after seven years. I would start a thread and hopefully you'll get advice.

 

Paul

[sierra28]

How do CCA's relate to overdrafts? I did not sign a CCA in relation to my OD but did aplly for my account and a debit card?

[sierra28]

Yes, judgments can be challenged many years after they were registered but you need valid arguments. In my case i challenged a judgment because the account contained unlawful charges prior to judgment, the judge allowed me to enter a defence this was after seven years. I would start a thread and hopefully you'll get advice.

 

Paul

 

Paul Thanks,

So in my case this could apply, as the the judgment contained unlawfull charges in excess of £1200 and this has only recently come to light. I have started a thread PLEASE PLEASE can some of you experts have a look? many thanks in advance !!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/122828-urgent-help-req-plz.html

[car2403]

How do CCA's relate to overdrafts? I did not sign a CCA in relation to my OD but did aplly for my account and a debit card?

 

Hi sierra,

 

The answer to your question is that overdrafts are regulated under the CCA - take a look here;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/31515-ccas-overdrafts.html?highlight=overdrafts

 

In essence, the bank has to send you a letter before or shortly after you sign stating what the interest rate will be along with how/why they can terminate the overdraft. If they haven't done this, they must comply with the form/content requirements of a normal credit agreement, which usually isn't the case.

 

This is where I am with a Barclays overdraft, if you want to see how this argument works in practise; (I'm also challenging a Personal Loan agreement in the same thread/claim)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/110184-car2403-barclays-bank-default.html

[Boon72]

so i can send copies of the 2 letters i sent Barclays (1st was the CCA template & 2nd was the reply template) , along with Barclays reply to them all with a covering letter.

 

the letter from Scotcall has got the figure up from the original Barclays send to RMA letter amount of £10020 to £10210.03. not all of that is from them tho, RMA added some

 

 

Just received a new letter from Scotcall saying that after not responding to there last letter and not making any payment to them, i now have 10 day to reply making an offer to repay the debt and avoid the possibilty of further action.

 

as ive heard nothing from either RMA or NCO or ScotCall for a while i left things alone (the calls were atleast once a day).

 

so now ive got my previous CCA for Barclays and their reply ready to send to ScotCall but what letter do i need to send them? do i need to send a CCA template 1 letter to them encosing the original Barclays request and reply or something else?

thanks in advance

[car2403]

Boon, send the original CCA and the chase letters, along with any replies you've had to it. It's important that you include this text in your cover letter: "I acknowledge no debt to your company or any company you claim to represent in this matter". Just outline that you believe the account is still in dispute, as outlined in the attached letters, etc, etc.

 

BTW - you're better off starting your own thread, especially if they take action against you. Take a look here if you're unsure how to do it;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-forums-website-questions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html

[gordonsanderson]

Great advice GIMZO nice one