Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974

[Honey1932]

I took advise on an RBS application/credit agreement form which I was informed was unenforceable. However someone else posted an identical form on this site and was advised by trading standards it was definitely enforceable in court. My application form did have a credit limit on it, plus my signature and a squiggle from someone at RBS.

[stapeley]

Is there a statement that they will determine the credit limit and notify you?

 

 

No , and I never recieved CCA with this on , and I did not sign anything after the Application form .

[hsbcfiddled]

hi chaps , just a quickie , is a form that clearly say,s SKYCARD APPLICATION FORM . And does not show the credit limit anywhere , a true signed copy of the CONSUMER CREDIT AGREEMENT ? thankyou .

 

 

 

 

In short .....No.

[robcag]

....... I hope by being around all of you on this forum i would get the nerve to challenge these organisations on my own steam - but right now i just couldn't deal with it.

Hi RubyRose

 

I'm a fairly recent newcomer to CAG (3 months or so), but since joining the help and advice has been far better than that which I received from other sources. So far I have CCA'd 5 accounts (2x Link - MBNA, 2x 1stCredit - Citi, and Fredricksons - HSBC) and all of these have failed to supply an agreement. All 5 alleged debts are now in default (limbo) and I have not made any payments to them for the last 3 months.

 

I am not advocating avoidance of responsibilities to your debts, but why carry on paying them if the creditors have not fulfilled their legal obligations to you, and by continuing to do so you are causing further difficulties for yourself?

 

Just a suggestion, but why don't you try putting a toe into the water, so to speak, by CCA'ing just one of your creditors and see what results you get?

 

Perhaps you could start a thread and post a list of your creditors and ask for advice on which ones are most likely not to have legitimate agreements in force. If you do this it might be worth giving the approximate dates on which the accounts were opened as this may have some bearing on the likelihood of a particular creditor failing to possess an agreement.

 

If you do as suggested you may be pleasantly surprised and your confidence will be given a boost.

 

I personally felt better as soon as I had sent my first CCA requests off, just knowing that I was fighting back against the unscrupulous DCAs.

 

Good luck

Rob

[RubyRose]

Thanks Rob i will think about it.

 

Ruby

[robcag]

Thanks Rob i will think about it.

 

Ruby

If you decide to start a thread on this (probably this forum general-debt would be the one), maybe you could post a link so that we could follow and people could offer further advice

 

Rob

[Goldlady]

It works - believe me - and you don't need to use a company to do it for you.

[RubyRose]

Rob and Goldlady i wish i looked at CAG more and used the advice given here. Except i am going through a lot of difficulty and just feel i could do without the additional stress. The one thing that puzzles me and baffles me is how does wiping out ones credit card debt impact on their credit rating. This really scares me and i feel a professional needs to deal with that aspect or advise ob it.

 

I am just so scared.

 

Ruby

[hsbcfiddled]

This is VERY good news.

 

BBC News Player - Credit card debts wiped

 

 

have a look.

[Goldlady]

Ruby you will end up with default notices on your credit file - which stay there for six years. I already had them so it made no difference whatsoever when I stopped paying altogether. Interestingly I have just remortgaged and the lender paid no attention to the defaults as they were all for unsecured debts. OK I couldn't walk into a high street bank and get a mortgage but it does not have any real impact on your life - apart from meaning you aren't struggling to pay card debts anymore.

 

You are not doing anything wrong - they are in the wrong if they haven't done their paperwork properly (or in my case not even kept a copy).

[RubyRose]

Goldlady my understanding is that once you have entered into a dispute with the credit card company then they are not to enter anything detrimental on your credit file until the situation is resolved. This is according to the banking code of practice which i found on the site and downloaded and read through. Everything i read and the more time i spend on the site is making me stronger and i might just start challenging one of my credit cards.

 

thanks once again for encouraging me.

Ruby:)

[Goldlady]

Probably different in my case as I had already defaulted:D. I know there are several people who have gone through the courts to get defaults removed, and it seems logical that they can't default you when the account is in dispute. As I am not too worried about my defaults I have not pursued the matter (yet) as I seem to have lots of other things going on still. Getting them all off my back was a major relief.

 

And beware - CAG is addictive;)

[RubyRose]

 

And beware - CAG is addictive;)

 

 

I am finding that:)

[ian1969uk]

This is VERY good news.

 

BBC News Player - Credit card debts wiped

 

 

have a look.

 

It is potentially very good news if we can get details of the judgement, however as yet I cannot find reference to this case on any of the court sites. I have emailed the couple to ask for a court reference number to get a copy of the judgement. So far, they haven't responded, perhaps not surprising as they have set up a site to charge people for doing this for them.

 

As it stands, we can't put in court papers that we saw a couple on the news, so we shouldn't pay, we will need the details for this to be any use.

 

I suspect they just do what we already do in challenging agreements etc, but if the Court of Appeal really has ruled on this, we need those details!!

[humbleman]

 

I suspect they just do what we already do in challenging agreements etc, but if the Court of Appeal really has ruled on this, we need those details!!

 

This could be quite valueable, lets hope some of the moderators are on the look out for this

[Goldlady]

Are you sure that they are not just using the Wilson case?

[ian1969uk]

The Midlands Today program and their website says that they have taken a case through the Court of Appeal themselves, we need to find out what that case is.

[macie]

somebody should ring Andrew Pritchard from CAB Rugeley and ask for the details of the appeal case

 

Rugeley Citizens Advice Bureau

7 Brook Square

Tel: 01889 577042

Fax: 01889 586126

 

I can't as I live in the USA

[robcag]

Rob and Goldlady i wish i looked at CAG more and used the advice given here. I wish I had found CAG earlier than I did as I missed the chance to defend a court action because of not knowing what to do. Except i am going through a lot of difficulty and just feel i could do without the additional stress. In my case, acting upon the advice given here has relieved a lot of the stress and made me more proactive. The one thing that puzzles me and baffles me is how does wiping out ones credit card debt impact on their credit rating. This really scares me That used to worry me, but not any longer and i feel a professional needs to deal with that aspect or advise ob it. I sought professional advice, and in my opinion it was useless. Unless you are very lucky and manage to speak to someone who is clued up on consumer law, you are IMHO better off taking the advice given by some of the more knowledgeable people here (I do not put myself in that category, but I think I'm learning).

 

I am just so scared. I guess it can be a bit scary (to start with), but in my experience so far that feeling soon goes!

 

Ruby

 

Goldlady my understanding is that once you have entered into a dispute with the credit card company then they are not to enter anything detrimental on your credit file until the situation is resolved. This is according to the banking code of practice which i found on the site and downloaded and read through. Some of the companies appear to be a law unto themselves regarding procedures, but with help from CAG you will be able to fight back. Everything i read and the more time i spend on the site is making me stronger and i might just start challenging one of my credit cards. Keep reading.... and go for it!

 

thanks once again for encouraging me.

Ruby:)

 

Wishing you well in your decision to start taking control Ruby!

 

Rob

[hsbcfiddled]

Just as a follow up to the (edit) site that challenged the 6 Credit Card companies wiping out their debts and getting a court ruling in the process.

 

See the link from Midlands Today

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7190000/newsid_7195100/7195126.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1

 

Here are further details for people who dont have the belief that they can carry the process against the Lenders through to court.

 

 

 

 

 

The Consumer Credit Act

 

This is a very basic explanation as to why upto 75% of all credit card agreements are legally unrecoverable.

 

 

Below is an example of the print format a correct agreement should look like.

 

 

x y z

 

 

 

 

 

Below is how all the unenforceable agreements look, the difference is the xyz are in capitals not lower case and this would be a breach of the law.

X Y Z

 

 

 

The Court Case

 

We made a court claim against a lender stating that 50% of all of their agreements were improperly executed because they do not state xyz, but instead they state ABC. The lender claimed that as 50% of their agreements stated different letters the regulations do not apply, the court agreed with them.

 

A B C

 

Based on the Court of Appeal ruling which confirms what the regulations state, then any agreement that does not state xyz in lower case is improperly executed which is about 75% of all credit card agreements and it could be one or all of yours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does your Credit Card Agreement have the X-Factor?

We took our lender to court because we said the agreement was unenforceable because of a, b and c. The lender won the case because they proved that the agreement was enforceable because it did not contain X, the X-Factor we will call it. Based on our knowledge of other agreements we know that the majority of them, up to 75% do contain the X-Factor and are therefore unenforceable. It is not us that have made the other agreements unenforceable, it is the lender, a Court Recorder QC, a Rt. Hon Sir and a Lord Justice of the Court of Appeal who agreed with them. We are only using the lenders legal points that were used against us, if we are wrong then the lender and 3 judges are also wrong, so take it up with them. All we are doing is making use of what we have been told is the law.

Test Case already Won

Our case was the first of its kind and is now the leading case and sets a precedent as to how any lower court should treat enforcement of a credit card agreement that is improperly executed.

[ian1969uk]

They have replied to my email, see here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1336226.html

 

I don't believe a word of it.

[Goldlady]

Well that's a new one on me. A secret judgement. :confused:

[Honey1932]

This credit card killer is very interesting (and tempting, I will wait a bit longer before signing up lol)

 

Can it not be too long before this gets in the media big time, it would be explosive, it would be the next best thing after the unfair bank charges. It would certainly deter the DCA's from purchasing these unenforceable debts and give us a break.

 

Honey

[Honey1932]

PS The fact they will not take on cards before May 2006 is very encouraging though

[Honey1932]

PS Sorry I meant after March 2006