Aside from the mistake regarding solicitor. I think I should now start a claim for the miss sold payment protection insurance £4,237 and a claim for unlawful charges of £2,800. I could at least get them to reduce the amount owed and then make an offer for settlement ofsya 60-70%. What process do I follow for the miss sold payment protection insurance claim? Many thanks

Hello everyone, sorry for disappearing like that. I did manage to get the documents filed on time!! So I went to court firstly to see if they would grant me relief from sanctions so I could contest the whole issue again. and if not to apply for an amendment/variation to the judgment with agreed payments so as to avoid to charging order. The judge would not grant relief from sanctions as did not feel I met all the criteria "The party who has failed to comply cannot count on being granted relief. The court is enjoined by CPR 3.9 to consider all the circumstances including the following :- "(a) the interests of the administration of justice; (b) whether the application for relief has been made promptly; © whether the failure to comply was intentional; (d) whether there is a good explanation for the failure; (e) the extent to which the party in default has complied with other rules, practice directions, court orders and any relevant pre-action protocol; (f) whether the failure to comply was caused by the party or his legal representative; (g) whether the trial date or the likely trial date can still be met if relief is granted; (h) the effect which the failure to comply had on each party; and (i) the effect which the granting of relief would have on each party." She in fact did not really think I met ANY of the criteria. depends on how you look at it I guess. Bottom line is she made the charging order final. She did make it conditional that RBS could not enforce the charging order if I keep up my payments. So there is a twist to this tale that I am hoping may open the door again. For what I am not sure but see what you all think. RBS changed their solicitors back on Sept 07 to shoesmiths (spelt wrong intentionally). At the same time someone changed the system to say that shoesmiths were my solicitors. The effect of this has been I have not been receiving any of the communications from the courts it has all been going to shoesmiths. The only communications I have received have been from shoesmiths. I would not even have turned up for the hearing had shoesmiths not written to me the day before with some info that had the court date on it. Since then I have not received any communications. the final charging order etc have all been sent to shoesmiths. I have basically been seriously disadvantaged as I was only receiving things from shoesmiths and too late in the day to prepare etc. I did mention to the judge that I had not received the court summons or any communications but everyone wanted to proceed so we did. It was not until I did not receive anything after the hearing that I was sure something was wrong. I have now just received a letter from shoesmiths saying they are going to realize the charging order by applying to the court for RBS to repossess my house. I called the court and said I had not received the final charging order and I needed it to check the conditions. The court said they had been sending everything to my solicitor shoesmiths. I pointed out the mistake and they have asked me to write in. What do you all think?

Your a STAR!! Seirra

Hi CJ Thanks!! Let me know when and what I need to do next?

OK so my evidence needs to be in this Thursday. I am still not convinced I have any real evidence to support my reasons. I can prove my father was ill I can prove I was made redundant I can prove I am a litigant person with no understanding of the legal processes But that is about it. I will see my doctor but ive only been to the doctor twice in the last 10 years and dont know them very well so not holding up much hope there. Anything else ?? Chloe I have time Monday to look at this with you. many thanks

OK great, Thanks CAR!

OK great I am gaining confidence. CAR - are you suggesting that this case law means I should be allowed to go back and should be granted releif from sanctions. or are you saying that once I get RfS that this can be used? Thanks all!

Ok great understod, lets work on the reasons. I have detailed my reply to the Relief from Sanctions CPR 3.9. What do you all think? What other reasons argument can we create for each of the points as to why I be granted Relief from Sanctions?

What does this mean? The Court told me today that first I have to get Relief from Sanctions before I can contest the judgment amount. Is this correct?

Thanks sequenci... So my main fight here is that I need very very good reason to get the court to grant me Relief from Sanctions put in place by the last order. I can then put forward my case focused on the whole unlawful charges and insurance argument proving that the judgment it is not for the right amount however at the moment they are saying that as the Order has already been made that it is final and I cant contest it two years later. Unless I am granted Relief from Sanctions I have detailed my reply to the Relief from Sanctions CPR 3.9. Are there any other legal reasons why I could be granted Relief from Sanctions?????

Hi Stan, Yes I have, my PPI and default charges material is very strong based on all the info posted on this forum. Thanks Stan for your support

Ooo your a fighter! I am ABSOLUTLY UP FOR IT!! With some support I am confident we can do this. As soon as I got back I looked up the CPR 3.9 and listed out the items. I then detailed what I know so far and put that in blue as above. Lets do it. Please can everyone review the CPR 3.9 comments I have made and any suggestions or case law greatly welcome. looks like Chloe and I are going for this one! PS I did put together one mother of a trail bundle based on all the info and support from this forum, was working on it till early am and then again from 6.30am till I had to leave. The representative from RBS was shocked!"! and a little worried. He went for the CO several times and the Judge was having none of it. So you’re right not a bad day after all.... Thanks Chloe!!

Hearing on 12th December 2007 Judge pointed out that: Judgment on 21st October for £17,010 is final and there was no way of reversing this judgment. Time to appeal has passed. Only possibility is Application for “Relief from Sanctions” under Civil Procedure Rules CPR 3.9 for the Court Order of 13th December 2005 - “Order is that unless defendant complies with Paragraph 3. of order on 21 October, “defence shall be struck out and claimant entitled to seek judgment for amount outstanding” Directions for next hearing: Defendant must file Witness Statement and Evidence by 21st December 2007 At the next hearing the Court will hear evidence from Defendant to satisfy a “Relief from Sanctions”, immediately followed by Claimants application for Final Charging Order Listing to be next available slot past 14 days. The Judge made it clear that relief from sanctions is very very difficult. Relief from sanctions 3.9 (1) On an application for relief from any sanction imposed for a failure to comply with any rule, practice direction or court order the court will consider all the circumstances including – (a) the interests of the administration of justice; (I think I have a good case here as it is clear that there are amounts in the judgment that should not be there and due to my personal circumstances at the time I was unable to follow the Court Order) NOTE is administration meant by will my being given relief from sanction so late on, set a president or in administering justice and stopping misjustice? (b) whether the application for relief has been made promptly; ( I clearly do not have a case here and have not been prompt ) © whether the failure to comply was intentional; (It was not intentional,(proof?)why would anyone whom had tried to defend this intentionally not complete the process and fail to comply) I had every intention to comply however personal circumstances of stress, depression, duress added to by the failure by the Claimant to produce what I thought at the time were key, documents and information rendered me mentally and physically unable to deal with life’s basic activities let alone the situation and order.) (PROOF????) (d) whether there is a good explanation for the failure; (The only explanation I have is based on my personal circumstances at the time.) Reasons for stress, depression and duress: I had been made redundant in May 2003 and was out of work for over 1 year creating significant financial and family pressures. I was then once again made redundant in November 2005 sending me into a spiral of worry stress and depression. During the pre-trial period I was seeking new employment. I only just started a new job in December 2005 when order was made. This was a very trying period. In addition my father was taken very ill in April 2002 and in October 2005 his condition deteriorated causing significant additional family duress and pressures. Additionally the claimant was not forth coming with requests for key information, they reference this in their witness statement of their inability to deal with my requests at branch level. The total sum of this mid-life crisis left me in a terrible condition and not of the ability to deal with everything properly resulting in my unintentional failure to comply with the order. ) (e) the extent to which the party in default has complied with other rules, practice directions, court orders and any relevant preaction protocol (GL) ; (The other orders at the time also presented challenges and I on a number of occasion had to request more time) (f) whether the failure to comply was caused by the party or his legal representative; (Own fault) compounded by a Lack of understanding of legal process and procedure) (g) whether the trial date or the likely trial date can still be met if relief is granted; (YES no date has been set) (h) the effect which the failure to comply had on each party; and ( It unjustly resulted in a Judgment being made in default for an incorrect amount) (Claimant was given judgment in default for an amount not lawfully owed ) (i) the effect which the granting of relief would have on each party. (The defendant would have the right to contest the unlawful part of the judgment) (the claimant would then need to prove the amounts claimed were due in a full hearing rather than be granted judgment in default) (2) An application for relief must be supported by evidence. NOTE: I can’t get doctors evidence for stress/depression., I can prove my father was ill that resulted my “Power of Attorney for all his matters) and that I was made redundant twice, once being during the pre-trial period. I can prove the claimant did not supply full details as requested as per their own witness statement. I can prove by the fact I did not comply with the order given the clear case to reduce the sums that I was not in a fit state of mind and condition to deal with matters) NOTE what else should I look to prove if at all possible) Strategy going forward: If I fail to gain “relief from sanctions” the charging order will be heard immediately. Based on my Witness Statement I believe I have a very small chance. Options If I get relief from sanctions – Then Application for Judgment to be Set Aside will be head at a future date. I will look to have the judgment revised for the lawful amounts I will look to agree payment terms by “means” with the court, preventing a charging order in future so long as a keep up payments [*]If I do not get relief from sanctions. Make application to vary the judgment with payment terms by “means” with the court, preventing a charging order so long as a keep up payments Make objection and defence of the Charging Order: My defence is based on the following grounds; i. The Claimant charged interest on the loan at an unsecured rate, so switching to a secured loan favours the creditor over others deeming the contract to hold Unlawful and unfair contractual terms. ii. I believe the Claimants owed me a duty of care as my fiduciary and should not be allowed to benefit from their misstatement. iii. I have shown responsibility in payments and my willingness to repay the debt, despite it having being wrongfully gained and the Claimants conduct to date. iv. The Charging Order and Judgment contain un-due and unlawful charges. v. The charging order and Judgment amount contains miss-sold insurance and interest on that insurance. Information held with my defence is that the Financial Services Authority have deemed single sum insurance premiums and no-refund clauses in insurance are unfair contracts by law. vi. The Charging Order and Judgment amounts contain unlawful charges. The status of penalty charges which has been brought about by the OFT report is that I was misled by the claimants that their charges were lawful. I rightfully hold a claim against the Claimant to reclaim the unlawful charges. 1. NOTE QUESTION are iv, v, vi above no longer relevant if my relief from sanctions is not granted? Also NOTE this defence needs more detail and weight. If all else fails prosecute RBS for unlawful sums including Payment Protection Insurance Unlawful Default Charges and Interest Over Draft that should have been protected Thanks again Chloe you are a real star!!! SO thoughts and feedback on what to do next??????

Thanks, stan5131 I am in court at 10.30 am tomorrow.

PPI - most of the other cases were miss-sold. In my case I was sold it although unsure of the full T&Cs as no info was given to me by my bank. I was then made redundant with in the 30 day cooling of period after taking the loan. They refused to pay out. Yet the claim from my bank RBS includes the full amount and interest of the PPI. Surley I should have been able to get a refund on the PPI and interest? I do not have any of the documents relating to the insurance in time for the case tomorrow. How should I position this?

OK Chloe I can send you the RBS claim form and their defence and my defence and counter claim docs. I cant find the final judgment. it is referenced in the charging order court document as ordered on March 13th for £27,510 plus £400 costs in default to be paid forthwith . is that what you mean?

Judgment was given in default and to be paid forthwith. I made own arangement with RBS for £150pm. so I am in effect in default on the judgment

Can someone post the link to the PPI bundles. I can find the bank charges one but not PPI. Do I need both?

Ok thanks. So yes please I would like some help with skeleton. What defence document. All I have is the document we have worked on. I did not get as far as a defence document last time all I had were my letters to RBS and my statment.

Correction : The judge has asked the hearing go ahead and said they will hear the apllication to set aside and the judgment and charging order together. Many thanks

OK so my application for adjournment was declined and the hearing is going ahead on the 12th, TOMORROW. can anyone please help advise! The judge has asked the hearing go ahead they will hear the apllication to set aside and the judgment. What should I do tomorrow? What should I be asking for? If I do get the judgment set aside they might try to then go for judgment for just some of the sum, should I admit to any of the debt? If I dont get judgment set aside and they hear the charging order what should I be asking for? How can I ask that they dont get a charging order but they get monthly payments agreed by the court? Any other advise please !!!! Many thanks

OK so I have submitted my apllications to the Court today at 3.30pm. I now just need to wait and see what happens. xxxx here is the final witness statment i submitted. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx BETWEEN: ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND Claimant And xxxxxxx Defendant WITNESS STATEMENT OF xxxxxxx 1) I xxxxxx of xxxxxx 2) This witness statement is in support of an application to set aside the Judgment granted to the Royal Bank of Scotland. The facts and matters to which I make in this statement are within my own knowledge and I believe them to be true. 3) The witness statement addresses to the Court why a Defense in this matter has taken so long for me to appeal and to contest the current judgment, further that a genuine Defense is held in this matter since 2005. I respectfully ask the Court to take into account the contents of this statement in support of my current application. 4) I firstly state before the court that I have at no time admitted to the amounts claimed by the Claimant to date and at all times disputed this. 5) The issue began between the Claimant and myself due to that I was suddenly made redundant. As the Court will appreciate, such a loss immediately placed finances in disarray and pressure financially and throughout this time various matters came into dispute with the Royal Bank of Scotland as I sought to manage financially. Background to Dispute with Claimant 6) Included at the start of an agreement with the Claimant was a single sum premium of £4,237 added to the start of the loan for un-employment/sickness insurance. 7) Shortly after the loan was completed I was made redundant shortly after the agreement began. This was inside the “cooling off period” and the Claimant’s insurance company refused to pay out on a claim. 8) The claim made by the Royal Bank of Scotland at the time included interest for the full 60 month term equal to £4,892. 9) Judgment was initially granted in April 2005. Only 22 months passed since the loan was deposited in my account. Summary of Defence held 2005 10) The insurance sum claimed for by the Claimant was null and void after the failed claim after just 30 days and wrongfully added to the amount sought. 11) The claim made by the Claimant wrongfully included interest for the full term. 12) The claim by the Claimant still included insurance cover @ £70.62 x 60 months = £4,237. 13) The claim made by the Claimant wrongfully included the full amount of my overdraft at the time (£4925.55) and this was protected for un-employment by the claimants own disclosure to myself on several occasions. Defence issues faced 2005 14) I was genuinely unable to complete my defense back in 2005 for the reasons I have listed below and ask the court respectfully to take these matters into consideration. I did at all times seek to defend the matter despite facing the following; a) At the time I had been out of work for over a year, I had mounting debts, a new child, new home and my father was very ill. b) While I was trying to defend my case I had only just secured new employment and was under massive financial pressures to make ends meet and keep my home. I needed to give my new job a significant amount of focus to ensure I could survive in very difficult times and repay the debt that had built up while unemployed. c) I suffered with anxiety and depression with all that I faced at the time. It was an extremely difficult time in my life to manage life’s day to day pressures and the case and defending at the time became increasingly difficult due to the Claimants conduct and not complying with reasonable requests allowing me to defend the matter before the Court. 15) Ultimately as I was suffering from all this stress and as a layman could not understand all the legal aspects of how to defend myself. This was magnified by the claimant not fulfilling my requests for evidence. I subsequently failed to submit my pre-trial checklist and evidence. I was granted more time but again failed to get the evidence due to the pressures and lack of co-operation stated above. Claimant conduct 16) I ask the court to note that when it came to the final stages there were key documents and evidence I needed to defend the claims that the claimant consistently failed to produce. I tried and tried by telephone and letter to acquire the evidence (as can be corroborated in my original defense documents and letters). The evidence I was seeking included; a) Detailed account notes for my current account, b) Loan approval documents from the previous loan approvals that were not fulfilled c) Insurance agreements and account notes 17) Had the Claimant supplied the documents requested this would have evidenced three key points; a) That the overdraft was protected for un-employment/sickness b) The loan had been approved and accepted 6 weeks prior to the re-issued loan agreements, this delay had meant the loan was not protected by insurance. c) The amounts claimed for insurance were invalid and unlawful 18) All efforts were made to acquire documents and account notes proving they had approved the loan initially in January, to support my claim for insurance and that they had confirmed on several occasions my Over Draft was protected. 19) Finally as part of their submission of evidence they failed to produce the detailed account notes or details that would have substantiated my defense. Outcome 2005 – Judgment 20) As a litigant in person not understanding the process of the court nor having the Claimant at any stage comply to reasonable requests for documents, at this point I thought all was lost and very regretfully failed to complete the rest of the process. 21) My failure at this time resulted in the claimant RBS being awarded unjustly and wrongly a judgment by default for the full amount claimed of £27,510.16 22) I respectfully ask the Court to note that the claimant and I subsequently made an agreement for monthly payments of £150 to repay the debt despite it having being wrongfully gained. These payments were based on my means at the time and I have been making these payments with out fail for 13 months now. Current matters before the Court 23) The Claimant has sought a charging order over my home taking full advantage of my inability to understand the processes or defend due to their conduct and have wrongfully obtained an order for an amount that does not reflect the amount owed or due under contract or agreement. 24) I have at all times sought to defend this matter despite the Claimants conduct and have demonstrated over the last 13 months my commitment, willingness and ability to make regular payments of a reasonable amount to repay the Claimant as per our agreement of £150 per month, despite it having being wrongfully gained. 25) The seeking of a charging order is unnecessary and on an amount that has always been in dispute since 2005. 26) The Claimant has still not provided the documents requested previously and has gained a default Judgment without providing evidence of their claim. Current situation 27) As I have previously outlined above to the Court, I take full responsibility for what has appeared my inability to have managed matters. I appreciate that valuable court time and resources have been used in the matter and can only offer my genuine apology to the Court based on the facts set out in this witness statement. 28) My circumstances are now very stable; I have been in a steady job since Nov 2005 and can manage daily life/work with confidence and have been working diligently to repay my debts. I give my total commitment and assurance that I am fully able to follow all instructions and requests of the court should I be given the opportunity. Grounds for Defense 29) In my Defense for the current charging order I raise the matter of not having been in a position to date to dispute the Judgment or injustice of the original order. The Claimants conduct has not made the process one that I have at any time thought I could defend. 30) My Defense is based on the following grounds; a) The Charging Order and Judgment contain un-due and unlawful charges. b) The charging order and Judgment amount contains miss-sold insurance and interest on that insurance. Information held with my defense is that the Financial Services Authority have deemed single sum insurance premiums and no-refund clauses in insurance are unfair contracts by law. c) The Charging Order and Judgment amounts contain unlawful charges. The status of penalty charges which has been brought about by the OFT report is that I was misled by the claimants that their charges were lawful. I rightfully hold a claim against the Claimant to reclaim the unlawful charges. d) The Claimant charged interest on the loan at an unsecured rate, so switching to a secured loan favors the creditor over others deeming the contract to hold Unlawful and unfair contractual terms. e) I believe the Claimants owed me a duty of care as my fiduciary and should not be allowed to benefit from their misstatement. f) I have shown responsibility in payments and my willingness to repay the debt, despite it having being wrongfully gained and the Claimants conduct to date. Application before the Court 31) Application is made to the Court in consideration of the points raised above and I respectfully request the court to take these circumstances and my commitment into account and grant me the opportunity to defend my position. To this end I make the following requests asking that the following be granted; 1) Adjournment of the “final charging order” hearing set for the 12th December 2007 be postponed for 60 days to allow time to prepare my case and evidence to have the judgment set aside. 2) That the Claimant comply with a Subject Access Request to provide all evidence and documentation on account notes and documents for all accounts, loans, agreements and insurance not supplied within 40 days. 3) That failing the above 2 orders being granted, that 30 days be granted to form a full defense against the Order sought by the Claimants, with order (2) sought to provide a copy of evidence of their claims within 14 days of this order being granted prior to the order being heard. Summary 32) I kindly request the court to consider these extreme circumstances and reiterate that these factors that lead to failure on my part that will not be repeated and my sincere apologies to the Court for matters that have occurred to date. 33) That it be noted that I have sought to genuinely seek to defend the matter since 2005 and with the Claimants conduct been prevented from doing so. 34) The Claimant has knowingly claimed a false amount and seeks to place an unlawfully gained amount of money and order with no evidence of their claim as a charge unfairly against my home. 35) That commitment has been shown by me for 13 months of an amount of £150 per month diligently. 36) That the Court please note that I am able to submit myself to the process and will of the courts, with hope that my case can be heard to contest the judgment and put forward the Defense held with a view to agreeing a just and fair sum in respect to the claimant’s claims. 37) That the Court allow the applications above to be upheld and prevent an injustice from occurring and save further Court time that would be taken up with a separate claim against the Claimant on the current matter, affecting any “charging order heard”. Statement of truth Thanks you all for your support and help. Especially you Chloe!!!!

OK great thanks !

Thanks. The court told me I need to use two forms. 1. To apply for adjournment 2. To apply for judgment to be set aside Do you agree? The one you have done works for the adjournment So what do I put for questions 2 & 3 for the judgment to be set aside form? Thanks again

in my N244 form what should I put as my reason on the form. I was thinking "The judgment conatains unlawful and undue charges as per my statment attached." I think this could be beter can anyone help? Thoughts comments many thanks