CCA Agreements (Mark II) PLUS any other topic

[zubo]

I have drafted a letter, I know that I could use some legal jargon to throw some weight to the case...... Any input gratefully received...

 

Thanks xx

 

Dear

 

I refer to your letter, dated 22.5.07 where you informed me that you were unable to provide me with a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement, which I requested under section 78 of the consumer credit act. I acknowledge that you have sent to me a copy of the terms and conditions of your credit card. This however does not fulfil your obligations as a lender. You point out in your letter that MBNA has responded in full to the request I made under section 78. I totally and utterly dispute that fact, you have not provided me with a copy of my CCA, and until you do the status of my account with you remains in dispute.

 

I would like to point out to you that I am in the process of reclaiming unlawful charges from MBNA, to date the amount I am pursuing is £xxxxxx, which is made up of £xxxxx in charges and £xxxxxx in interest, charged at the rate that you are charging me. I also require all defaults listed against me to be removed .

 

I am totally aware that MBNA not being able to provide me with a copy of my requested CCA is an offence in the eyes of the law, making the debt unenforceable. I am also aware of the steps I can now take in reporting this non compliance.

 

I ask that you now settle my claim without further delay to prevent this situation being taken any further. I look forward to hearing from you within 14 days of the above,

 

Regards,

 

just a few changes

 

Z

[Cornucopia]

just a few changes

 

Z

 

In addition to Zubo's changes, I would also change "a copy of my CCA" to "a true copy of my executed agreement". This is only because CCA stands for Consumer Credit Act and as such you have put in a CCA request for your true executed agreement.

 

Other than that Standing, you're good to go!!!

 

Good luck, I have everything crossed for you and look forward to your next post!!

 

Regards,

 

 

Corn x:)

[standingupformyself]

My next post!!!! I have just come home after an evening on Bacardi, Lime and Soda...... Maybe tomorrow morning will be a better time... Just wanted to say thank you, I appreciate the amendments to the letter, but will re-read the posts added this evening tomorrow morning.... I want to get them back any way I can now..... fair means or foul, so they say xxx

[standingupformyself]

edited

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

Section 59 is by no measure going to replace the loss of the section 127 (3-5) safeguards but for certain types of regulated agreements it could be just what we are looking for and there is also the added bonus that if it does apply it would make the agreement void not unenforceable but as if it had never existed, food for thought.

 

Anyway here is a synopsis of the work I have done so far

 

Under the section 59(1) of the consumer Credit Act 1974, agreements to enter into prospective agreements to be regulated by the act are void.

 

This would be a pretty wide ranging and would effectively cripple any agreement that was signed by the debtor first and then sent off to be executed on the signature of the creditor.

 

In order to for this to work there has to be a list of exemptions which stipulate agreements that are not covered by the section.

 

These exemptions are listed in the,” Consumer credit (Agreement to enter Prospective agreements) (Exemptions) Regulations 1983/1552.

From our point of view the main points to note are these;

1 The section will not apply to any agreement that is signed on company premises.

2 The section will not apply to any document that has not had antecedent negotiations orally when in the presence of the debtor.

3 The section will not apply if the information presented in the Quotation regulations contain clearly and as a whole in the document. (This is the most interesting one)

 

In other words this only applies to a cancellable agreement.

I am informed by the OFT that this also includes cancellable agreements courtesy of the Distance selling regulations(Post 2004).

 

The potentially most useful part of the above is point 3.

 

The Consumer Credit Quotation regulations 1980/55 which must be included if section 59 is not to be applied consists of everything that you would expect to see on a regulated agreement together and as a whole and is contained in schedule 1 to the above regulations.

 

This means that if this information is not contained in the document when it is signed by the debtor the future agreement is void. This explains the comments in the letter from the OFT.

 

The quotation regulations have as you would imagine had quite a few amendments since 1983 most of which it seems to me are to keep them in line with the agreement regulations and the seem to integrate with the agreement regulations in 1983 in the consumer credit (Advertising and Quotations)(Amendments)Regulations 1983/110.

 

The SI for these amendments are;

SI 1999/2725

SI 2000/1797 and 2004/1484 which are entitled the Consumer Credit Advisements regulations.

I have not gone through all of these yet but I can see no problem thus far.

 

Best Regards

 

Peter

[standingupformyself]

I have tweaked around with my letter, gaining some bits from other letters posted on our forums. Does this sound ok? I want to get it in the post tomorrow,

 

Dear Mr. Cross,

 

In reference to my request (dated 11th April, 2007) for a true executed agreement, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

I thank you for your letter in response dated 22nd May 2007, but I feel I have to draw your attention to the points you made and now, how I view the situation.

 

Firstly, I quote “ We are unable to retrieve any copy applications made with Abbey prior to the conversion to MBNA that happened during 2001” my original request was for an agreement not an application form, the agreement I am to be supplied with, must be signed by myself and contain all the legal requirements for it to be executed correctly in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The copy agreement I am to be supplied with, must be a true copy of the one signed by myself and Abbey National.

Secondly, and again I quote “For the avoidance of any doubt, we would like to confirm that MBNA has responded in full to the request you made under Section 78; and in any event, your credit agreement remains valid and your obligation to repay remains intact”. I totally and utterly dispute that fact, you have not provided me with a true copy of my CCA, and until you do the status of my account with you remains in dispute.

I am totally aware that MBNA not being able to provide me with a copy of my requested CCA is an offence in the eyes of the law, making the debt unenforceable. I am aware that not supplying me with a true copy of my CCA is a criminal offence; I initially sent to you a full request on the 11th April, 2007. I am also aware of the steps I can now take in reporting this non compliance.

I would like to point out to you that I am in the process of reclaiming unlawful charges from MBNA, to date the amount I am pursuing is £3504.02 which is made up of £2017.00 in charges and £1487.02 in interest, charged at the rate that you are charging me. I also require all defaults listed against me to be removed.

I look forward to be receiving your response.

Yours sincerely,

[robert_harper_2000]

Sorry to jump in on this thread but just a quick question with the time frame of the CCA request.

Sent (RD) on the 18/04 allow 2 days posting and a further 12 days = 02/05

After 30 days = 01/06

 

The DD comes out on the 28 or 30 of each month, I've heard nothing... would it be risky cancelling the DD now? Otherwise they won't realise until a month after that?

[ian1969uk]

Robert, you can stop paying after the 12 working days, so get that direct debit cancelled!

[robert_harper_2000]

God I thought I had read and re-read everything! lol It's been cancelled... wonder how they will react, so if they phone up I'll say put anything you have to say in writing - if they continue to phone send off the harrsement letter?

[ian1969uk]

Be sure to keep a record of all calls for any future court action for harassment.

[robert_harper_2000]

Well I might change my brothers number to mine, as I would like to help him out with all this. When they call should I just say I have yet to receive my CCA and as such do not acknowledge this debt.

Oh also should I quickly phone them and get an up to date balance? and settlement figure so they don't add any interest or charges?

[AnimalMagic]

Anyone willing to comment on my unfinished response to FD here. Having real problems getting this done.

[standingupformyself]

Me again.....

Have been reading through other threads this evening and came across something was relevant to me..

 

I requested CCA from templates on this site to Barclaycard (also MBNA, but that's another story)

The Barclaycard account is 5 years old, and the reason I was after a copy of my CCA is because I dispute the fact I asked for PPI... anyway.... I have read on someone elses thread that what they have sent me is not the true copy of the CCA that I asked for.. They have sent me a copy of of a priority application form "simply sign and return" It is not signed by Barclaycard, I do not appear to have dated it

Does this sound like they have conformed to my request or not? The small print is too small to read, but it is in one box about two inches deep and four inches across, maybe this description sounds familiar to anyone else who has received it.

 

Any advice appreciated

[davefirewalker]

have they complied ?

 

from what you have said........NO

 

prepare to start having fun with them...

 

Dave

[davey77]

Me again.....

Have been reading through other threads this evening and came across something was relevant to me..

 

I requested CCA from templates on this site to Barclaycard (also MBNA, but that's another story)

The Barclaycard account is 5 years old, and the reason I was after a copy of my CCA is because I dispute the fact I asked for PPI... anyway.... I have read on someone elses thread that what they have sent me is not the true copy of the CCA that I asked for.. They have sent me a copy of of a priority application form "simply sign and return" It is not signed by Barclaycard, I do not appear to have dated it

Does this sound like they have conformed to my request or not? The small print is too small to read, but it is in one box about two inches deep and four inches across, maybe this description sounds familiar to anyone else who has received it.

 

Any advice appreciated

 

Hey there - i think it's safe to say that an application form can never be a properly exectued agreement. I found that out after i started receiving them in reply to my CCA's. I even rang the NationalDebtline and she was very quick to agree that an application form was not compliant to a CCA request! Had no feedback really requesting an agreement so have sent off Trading Standards reports this week.

[redsue]

Hi - just after some advice please regarding CCA request.

 

I'm helping my Dad at the moment and he requested a CCA from MBNA. They did send him a copy of a totally illegible agreement (you can't even read any of the small print nor the bit where is states 'regulated under the Consumer Credit Act..) but no terms and conditions. It does contain my dad and mums signatures and is dated.

So we wrote back and told them it was illegible and they had not fully complied.

They sent us back

- exactly the same illegible agreement with an undated handwritten note saying 'please find enclosed the copy of the application as requested'

- two other pages of someone else data :o

- three pages of t&cs which do seem to contain the prescribed terms (these can just about be read)

- no statement of account

 

My issues with them are

a) its illegible

b) they sent someone else data

c) how do I know if these t&cs relate to my Dads account?

 

My question really is what now? I know they have breached the Data Protection Act and was just wondering what anyone thinks are next move should be.

 

any help from the 'experts' would be very much appreciated, thanks

[Perseus]

Hi Redsue

Not an expert, but here's a couple of things.

 

1) Who was the signatory of the info provided to you?

2) Immediately inform the ICO that info for another customer has been sent to you - they've broken DPA regs, and committed an offence under the second and sixth principles

3) I would reply, informing them that they have supplied someone elses info, that it's been reported to ICO, and state that as the info was relevant to the other customers agreement, they have still not complied with your request, they now have xx days to comply.

4)The prescribed terms must form the agreement document, not be added on using T&C's.

Look at the other persons agreement date, now look at the T&Cs with them, check that for a date.

Are the dates in the range for your Dads agreement?

 

This is ridiculous.

Got to complain to the ICO, to MBNA (William Wareing, Senior Legal Assistant) or (Mr S Bailey, Customer Advocate Office Manager)

and state the above, really lay it on thick, and demand the correct info.

Is the agreement supplied to your Dad headed 'Agreement under CCA 1974' or is it application form?

 

Perseus

[Cornucopia]

Hi - just after some advice please regarding CCA request.

 

I'm helping my Dad at the moment and he requested a CCA from MBNA. They did send him a copy of a totally illegible agreement (you can't even read any of the small print nor the bit where is states 'regulated under the Consumer Credit Act..) but no terms and conditions. It does contain my dad and mums signatures and is dated.

So we wrote back and told them it was illegible and they had not fully complied.

They sent us back

- exactly the same illegible agreement with an undated handwritten note saying 'please find enclosed the copy of the application as requested'

- two other pages of someone else data :o

- three pages of t&cs which do seem to contain the prescribed terms (these can just about be read)

- no statement of account

 

My issues with them are

a) its illegible

b) they sent someone else data

c) how do I know if these t&cs relate to my Dads account?

 

My question really is what now? I know they have breached the Data Protection Act and was just wondering what anyone thinks are next move should be.

 

any help from the 'experts' would be very much appreciated, thanks

 

They did this to me Redsue, sent out an application form and when pressured, under separate cover they sent two different sets of T&C's from 2003 (the application was from 1996), therefore they could, in my opinion, belong to somebody else, they certainly were not from the 1996 application, that's for sure.

 

I would report to the usual relevant authorities and write to MBNA and point out that they have breached the DPA by passing you somebody's elses data and that it does not comply.

 

Idiots:rolleyes:

[chargedup]

Hi Corn , how are you - Pers has told me a lot about you!

[Cornucopia]

Hi Corn , how are you - Pers has told me a lot about you!

 

Hello Chargedup, all good I hope!!

 

Nice to meet you, are you by any chance living under the same roof as Pers??!!

[chargedup]

I am that person! (for my sins).

He spends so much time on here, I thought it was time I got involved - not that I'm checking up at all .

[Cornucopia]

I am that person! (for my sins).

He spends so much time on here, I thought it was time I got involved - not that I'm checking up at all .

 

I know, he's SO rude!!!!

[Perseus]

Hey steady! I resemble that remark...

 

My issues with them are

a) its illegible

b) they sent someone else data

c) how do I know if these t&cs relate to my Dads account?

a)adds to the un-enforceability of the agreement

b)breach of DPA and 6th principle and still makes agreement unenforceable

c)You dont, until they supply specifically your dads agreement and T&Cs relative to it, they are in default of your request.

Idiots indeed Corn!

[redsue]

thanks very much for your help guys - I'm drafting a strongly worded letter to MBNA at the moment on behalf of my dad - will keep you posted

Out of 3 CCA requests to MBNA for me, my hubby and my dad not one has been fulfilled correctly.

I had a fresh print outs of current t&cs after about 60 days, my hubby had a letter saying they would respond by 11th April (still waiting) and my dad gets an illegible agreement, someone elses agreement and who know whose t&cs.

Sack the Data Controller

pi$$ up and brewery spring to mind

[Alphageek]

Hello fountains of knowledge

 

Would someone be so kind as to pop over to my thread (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/90156-alphageek-capital-one.html) and give an opinion on whether what CapOne sent me corresponds to a properly executed agreement or not?

 

The T&Cs they sent me for a start have £12 as the charge when they charged me £20 when my account was initially opened.

 

I have already sent my prelim, I just want to turn the screw a little by sending them a CCA Default letter if you all think it's appropriate to do so.

 

Thanks.