CCA Agreements (Mark II) PLUS any other topic

[humbleman]

nd, and never taking a final action that will start the 6 year countdown?

 

Are they ever forced into a position whereby they must issue a default, which would then remain for 6 years before disappearing?

It is generally regarded that once an account has fallen behind 3 months(6 in some cases) the account is defaulted. Whether a lenders marks your file as such or not. So if you had missed 3/4 payments say in 01-2001 and the lenders has put like 888888888 on your account, you can write to the lender and ask them to remove the data completely since you can argue that there are only allowed to keep the data for 6 years from when the account defaulted.

[joneshousehold]

Although a debt is not written off by the CCA requirements, a company is obliged to make certain adjustments in their accounts for the requirement of Accounting Standards to show the debt is irrrecoverable. I suspect once they do that they will take it off their system and stop notifying the CRAs. I am not certain on this but I think it may be worth thinking about

[zubo]

It is generally regarded that once an account has fallen behind 3 months(6 in some cases) the account is defaulted. Whether a lenders marks your file as such or not. So if you had missed 3/4 payments say in 01-2001 and the lenders has put like 888888888 on your account, you can write to the lender and ask them to remove the data completely since you can argue that there are only allowed to keep the data for 6 years from when the account defaulted.

 

Actually guys, this is all quite incorrect.

 

The CCA covers exactly how a regulated agreement should be dealt with in the event of a default, the creditor HAS to comply. If they don't comply they commit an offence.

A CRA has no legal right whatsover to retain your data past the currency of the agreement. They are all commercial businesses who simply agreed with the financial institutions to 6 years. This is NOT enshrined in any law and can be removed using DPA. Surlybonds where are you when I need you...

Finally they can only process YOUR data because you have given the CCP consent to share. As soon as an agreement becomes unexecuted or improperly executed or unenforceable, you are well within your rights to state that without a true signed agreement with all the prescribed items then consent has not been given and is formally withdrawn. They cannot lay claim to part of an agreement if other parts are missing. Its an all or nothing situation.

 

Z

[Guest Battleaxe]

This is where you make a complaint to the ICO and the ICO orders them to remove the information. I did this and there is no record on my CRA file of a certain catalogue company.

[davefirewalker]

Hi Maria

 

regarding your application

 

the copy is bad

that in itself could constitute an offence

 

also......

there doesnt appear to be any APR that I can see,

and I cant see any reference to t&c.

there is no mention of repayments other than the fact the minimum is 5% and you can pay by dd.

there are no default charges or remedies.

Its obviously missing some major stuff.

 

were you supplied t&c with it?

 

without those items I mentioned it is not only improperly executed but most likely unenforceable. now I know you have finished the agreement but if it was flawed in the first place the ppi was most likely invalid.

 

I think !

 

basically i would write to them saying the agreement was improperly executed because of the above, and as such the agreement was no good, and because of that the ppi was invalid too, can I have it back ? or I'll see you in court!

 

obviously word it slightly differently

 

or maybe someone else has any different ideas

 

Dave

[itsmeandonlyme]

Thank you Dave,

 

was patiently waiting for the reply:)))i will work on the wording and yes:

There is no APR

There is no default charges or remedies...

i do recall to receive a T&C liflet, they sent me a copy this time aswell...

Just needed somebody else to point me at the prescribed terms...i'd be hundred % sure that i am right and they are not:))))

 

 

 

thank you very much:)))

[zubo]

Dear Zubo,

This was the application....when i applied for the card, in other thread there is a letter from CF that confirms that it's an application, and Legal Manager that left her job confirmed that it's an application..but now in this letter they say that this is an agreement.

 

Can you please let me know what is missing (which prescribed items the application doesn't have to be an agreement) ?))

 

The conversation that i had with company secretary was about this application form that he insisted is an agreement. All the copies are copied badly, all the copies are unreadble. I also do not remember to receive an copy of the agreement when they supplied me with card....

 

I already sent 2 letters 1 CCA request 1- pointing that with the unreadable/legable copy they still haven't complied with CCA request...

I will send 3-d letter but what else can i do meanwhile..who can i complain to?

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Maria

 

Maria

 

I can just make out something about an application - which is what puzzled me - there seems a lot missing for an agreement so although it is headed agreement it is an application. The obvious items missing are ALL the financial details, so I take your point.

 

Dear Sirs

 

Thank you for supplying me with a copy of my application, however this does not meet the specific requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This is not a true copy of an executed agreement.

 

The RT Hon Ian McCartney MP, Minister for Trade Investment and Foreign Affairs has stated "It is also a breach of the Act and the Regulations to send the application form rather than a true copy of the agreement.”

 

In addition, I draw your attention to CCA S61 (1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless -

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement

© the document is in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

 

So you have clearly completely failed to comply with my request which leads me to conclude that you have no such agreement.

 

You must therefore immediately cease processing my data, consent is not given, you are unable to default the agreement, sell the alleged debt or add any charges to this alleged debt. If you have issued defaults you must withdraw these.

 

I deny the alleged debt and will not make any further payments and require you to submit your proposals for restitution of unlawful interest charges and penalties.

 

Finally, in the event that you are considering litigation, your attention is drawn to CPR 4.6 © enclose copies of documents asked for by the claimant, or explain why they are not enclosed;

I would therefore request, in compliance with CPR 4.6© a copy of the document that you will be relying on as proof that a properly executed agreement, complying in all respects with the form and content requirements of the CCA was signed by myself in respect of this alleged debt.

 

I expect, in accordance with CPR, your prompt response to this formal request without further delay.

 

Z

 

[itsmeandonlyme]

Lovely, thank you Zubo...Sounds very strong and powerfull...this is what i needed:)))

The only thing is that they sent same check back( i already send it back and now received it again)...Silly to ask but do i send it back again?

xxxxx

 

 

Maria

[Zimmie]

Zubo, that is just excellent!

[mfpa]

If you send a cca and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request, by recorded or special del asap - and ensure that you head the letters 'Account in Dispute', this should (under CCA regs) stop any further legal action whilst under dispute. You could also send a Data Protection Act section 10 letter which will not only confirm the account is in dispute, but clearly advise that they should stop processing data/non-disclosure to 3rd parties/contact credit ref agencies etc. That letter is in the template library.

Maybe that section 10 letter could be of use to me. I am currently in arrears on a Halifax secured loan because Halifax decided earlier in the year to remove money from my accounts in unwarranted charges instead of allowing me to pay them with it. (For example, £351 between 22nd December 2006 and 23rd February 2007.)

 

In my letter to them of 12th March I told them to use some of the money they have taken from my accounts to clear the arrears. I also pointed out that one day's notice was not sufficient to issue a default, which they threatened, and that they needed more than one missed payment.

 

My next letter to them, dated 4th April included:-

Thank you for your letter referenced “P/3/DRCR/DN(S)/”, which was delivered in duplicate today. I note you have not had the courtesy to address the points made in my letter of 12th March (copy enclosed for ease of reference).

 

Your letter of 3rd April mentions arrears of £206.36. I dispute this figure. Your letter of 5th March gave the arrears as £150.72. When the next monthly payment became due this increased to £301.44 and my payment of £130.00 on 28th March decreased it to £171.44.

 

You also state that £376.05 before 1st May is required to remedy the situation. Presumably the figure should be the arrears plus the next monthly payment and I calculate that to be £321.36. I have no way of paying anything remotely approaching that amount before 1st May but I shall pay at least the remaining £20.72 of the monthly payment, perhaps before you receive this letter.

 

 

The amount owing is disputed. The money they want I cannot give them because they took it from my accounts.

 

They have now issued me a "default notice under s. 87(1) of the CCA, giving me 4 days to pay another amount that does not add up. The threats if not include "we hereby requires forthwith of all monies outstanding under the agreement", along with DCA and or legal proceedings. They say they wont tell the CRAs for 28 days.

 

Halifax have also closed one current account and frozen another- not just without notice but without even telling me after (so far. I discovered it via internet banking over a week ago).

 

And Halifax's shenannigans have caused me serious problems with first direct, who have closed a deposit account without telling me, closed a current account and demanding immediate repayment of £500 overdraft, not to mention the mortgage.

[zubo]

Maybe that section 10 letter could be of use to me. I am currently in arrears on a Halifax secured loan because Halifax decided earlier in the year to remove money from my accounts in unwarranted charges instead of allowing me to pay them with it. (For example, £351 between 22nd December 2006 and 23rd February 2007.)

 

In my letter to them of 12th March I told them to use some of the money they have taken from my accounts to clear the arrears. I also pointed out that one day's notice was not sufficient to issue a default, which they threatened, and that they needed more than one missed payment.

 

My next letter to them, dated 4th April included:-

Thank you for your letter referenced “P/3/DRCR/DN(S)/”, which was delivered in duplicate today. I note you have not had the courtesy to address the points made in my letter of 12th March (copy enclosed for ease of reference).

 

Your letter of 3rd April mentions arrears of £206.36. I dispute this figure. Your letter of 5th March gave the arrears as £150.72. When the next monthly payment became due this increased to £301.44 and my payment of £130.00 on 28th March decreased it to £171.44.

 

You also state that £376.05 before 1st May is required to remedy the situation. Presumably the figure should be the arrears plus the next monthly payment and I calculate that to be £321.36. I have no way of paying anything remotely approaching that amount before 1st May but I shall pay at least the remaining £20.72 of the monthly payment, perhaps before you receive this letter.

 

 

The amount owing is disputed. The money they want I cannot give them because they took it from my accounts.

 

They have now issued me a "default notice under s. 87(1) of the CCA, giving me 4 days to pay another amount that does not add up. The threats if not include "we hereby requires forthwith of all monies outstanding under the agreement", along with DCA and or legal proceedings. They say they wont tell the CRAs for 28 days.

 

Halifax have also closed one current account and frozen another- not just without notice but without even telling me after (so far. I discovered it via internet banking over a week ago).

 

And Halifax's shenannigans have caused me serious problems with first direct, who have closed a deposit account without telling me, closed a current account and demanding immediate repayment of £500 overdraft, not to mention the mortgage.

 

The S10 is really a DPA compliance letter.

 

Have you issued a CCA and SAR.

 

These are needed to be able to dispute the agreements and charges.

 

Look here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/79147-consumer-credit-act-resources-2.html#post784361

 

Z

[mfpa]

The S10 is really a Data Protection Act compliance letter.

 

It seems relevant as it challenges exactly the behaviour exhibited by Halifax.

 

Have you issued a CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

 

These are needed to be able to dispute the agreements and charges.

 

Halifax signed for my SAR on 29th March and are yet to reply or even acknowledge.

 

Have not sent CCA as I thought mortgage companies are generally good at keeping the paperwork up together and it seemed like a waste of a couple of quid. I guess it's worth it.

 

My fledgeling Halifax thread is here.

[davefirewalker]

cca requests are only good for upto £25000, and I dont think mortgages come under it

 

could be wrong , but I dont think so

 

Dave

[tomterm8]

I am no longer welcome on CAG

[tiglet]

Halifax - the word is poison to me.

 

Would apprecaite it, as you guys seem to know so much about CCA's and the law, if you could look at this thread for me Halifax - Fuming beyond belief .

 

i would apologise for hijacking, except I won't for the following reasons:

 

1. Thsi was deemed an unhijackable thread

2. I need your help

3. I'm so sodding furious I'm about to down the largest glass of Sauvignon imaginable before my children go to bed (believe me, I have to be in a very bad mood to do that).

 

Thanks in advance

 

Angry tigs

[M.Willows]

Hi

 

I suggest sending them this:

 

Thank you for the information you sent following my request under the CCA 1974.

 

However, I made a request to you on .... for a copy of the executed agreement applicable to the alleged debt. Under the CCA s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of the actual credit agreement but have only sent me a copy of the initial application form.

 

A regulated credit agreement contains all of the prescribed terms, other required information and statements of my statutory rights.

 

I would therefore be obliged if you would send me a copy of that document as soon as possible.

 

Yours etc.

 

This gives them a 2nd chance to come up with something that actually might resemble a credit agreement (just in case they do have one! ) and also (subtly) lets them know YOU know what is required!

 

Regards, Pam

 

Hi Pam

I took your advise and wrote to MBNA requesting again my CCA 1974 giving them another chance .Today received the same application box from MBNA . (just the bit where you tear off and send back) that is twice they have sent this now and this time with a note attached saying please find a copy of your application. My SAR copy has not got the terms on the back but this has, I also noticed that on my letter back about charges it mentions terms 3b as on my agreement , it would be nice to see this agreement and terms as on the back of the application it only goes up to 2.4 and is barely legible any way due to the size of the print.Any further advise would be more than welcome .

[lazybones]

Hi All

 

I know this may sound a bit stupid, but can anyone tell me how the CCA relates to a Current Account Overdraft.

 

I'm only asking as Lloyds TSB have sent me this:

 

"ENFORCEMENT NOTICE (Served Under Section 76(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974)

 

They are demading I pay entire balance by 04/05/2007 or else!

 

Any help most welcome

[zubo]

Hi All

 

I know this may sound a bit stupid, but can anyone tell me how the CCA relates to a Current Account Overdraft.

 

I'm only asking as Lloyds TSB have sent me this:

 

"ENFORCEMENT NOTICE (Served Under Section 76(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974)

 

They are demading I pay entire balance by 04/05/2007 or else!

 

Any help most welcome

 

Do a full SAR, include request for copy of the signed execute agreement they refer to, including the reference to #30 in

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/79147-consumer-credit-act-resources-2.html

 

send it recorded

 

Z

[lazybones]

Or else what.

 

Dirtyharry

Sorry no or else, different letter from someone else. Getting confused:confused:

 

Just been on the phone L/TSB collection centre and asked what will happen if I don't pay up on 04 May. The Indian, (I think), gentleman said that as I'm paying something towards the outstanding balance they will not take me to court but will pass on the account to a DCA.

 

Zubo

 

Have already sent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), not only for this account, but also 1 savings account and 3 c/card accounts.

 

All I received was a list of account fees, interest charges and 1 excess o/draft charge. Plus 2 statement for savings account, mind you thats all there was for this account.

 

Will shortly send them non-compliance letter.

 

But I think I'll wait until I hear from DCA before send a CCA request to them for the Aggreement Document.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi All

 

I know this may sound a bit stupid, but can anyone tell me how the CCA relates to a Current Account Overdraft.

 

I'm only asking as Lloyds TSB have sent me this:

 

"ENFORCEMENT NOTICE (Served Under Section 76(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974)

 

They are demading I pay entire balance by 04/05/2007 or else!

 

Any help most welcome

 

Hi

 

Overdrafts are regulated by the CCA but are exempt from the agreement regulations. Therefore there is no agreement document as you would expect with e.g. a loan or credit card. The bank is only required to give you written notice of your OD limit, the interest rate and procedure for cancelling the OD, at the time it is agreed.

 

Unfortunately OD's are repayable on demand! The only thing I can suggest is that you ask them if you can repay it in instalments. Have you had any charges on this account and if so, have you claimed them back yet?

 

Regards, Pam

[mfpa]

cca requests are only good for upto £25000, and I dont think mortgages come under it

 

could be wrong , but I dont think so

 

Dunno. Halifax usually describe this account as a "secured loan" rather than a "mortgage", and it is for about £20k. They seem to think it is covered by the CCA, judging by them sending out s87(1) default notices.

[zubo]

Dunno. Halifax usually describe this account as a "secured loan" rather than a "mortgage", and it is for about £20k. They seem to think it is covered by the CCA, judging by them sending out s87(1) default notices.

 

I this is a loan regulated by the CCA and the 2nd charge on the property is the surety - the rules re surety are also well covered within the Act.

 

Remind them that you expect full compliance with the CCA including the timescales.

 

Z

[davefirewalker]

Dunno. Halifax usually describe this account as a "secured loan" rather than a "mortgage", and it is for about £20k. They seem to think it is covered by the CCA, judging by them sending out s87(1) default notices.

 

If this is the case then yes GO for them,

 

Dave

[lazybones]

Hi

 

Overdrafts are regulated by the CCA but are exempt from the agreement regulations. Therefore there is no agreement document as you would expect with e.g. a loan or credit card. The bank is only required to give you written notice of your OD limit, the interest rate and procedure for cancelling the OD, at the time it is agreed.

 

Unfortunately OD's are repayable on demand! The only thing I can suggest is that you ask them if you can repay it in instalments. Have you had any charges on this account and if so, have you claimed them back yet?

 

Regards, Pam

 

Thanks Pam I had an idea there wouldn't have to be an actual document, but one can always hope.

 

I have made an offer to pay by instalments, but it was rejected as being too low.

 

Yes there are charges on the account, I'm waiting for them to comply fully with my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) before I can add them all up.

 

I shall post updates on my "Joys of banking with TSB" thread on this matter fro now on.

 

Thanks for the help and advice:)

[iconoclash]

Hiya - Ive found this interesting Judgement in the House of Lords, it takes some wading through and I hope some knowledgable soul on here will post a 'laymans' guide from it, it talks a lot about unfair terms in contracts and interest for the 'supplier' v the consumer etc., so far I have found some reference in there to County Courts not be permitted to give interest on judgements after judgment date. ?

In my own case, I am trying to find out if a supplier of credit can get further interest after judgement has been made that already includes the full amount that would have been due on the contract, also, if said contract would still have been running its term, why would a judge give further amounts, thus allowing the supplier rewards for the consumers indebtedness??? if you get what I mean ! Hope so - any comments welcome

http:/www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200102/ldjudgmt/jd011025/fair-1.htm