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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Please Post How Far Back You Have Managed To Obtain Statements


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In light of the recent thread posted by BankFodder http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/80486-claiming-beyond-6-yrs.html#post712882 I thought it would be useful to start a thread solely for the purpose of recording how far back people have been able to obtain statements from their banks. Please do not post queries here, lets try and keep this just for posting results!!

 

So far we have heard from the following:

 

Barclays do keep 12 years of statements; though I suspect they may start warming up the furnaces soon.

 

 

The Abbey, for instance keep their records back to 1926.

 

I recieved 15 years of Statements from RBS

 

i thought i would say that i believe statements are possible with natwest going back at least to 1995 possibly further but importantly charges information would be obtainable back to 1992 on a full Subject Access Request on the old natwest archive system and that is important.

 

we have come to the cross roads regarding getting the information from over 6 years ago. We both have closed accounts with HSBC who have written as per my post above, to advise they do not keep details over 6 years old.

 

I have had 12 years of statements supplied by Barclays

 

I got statements from 1994 from the Halifax- I had to hassle them a bit- but the person at Customer Relations told me they have a seperate computer system (which he could acces then and there so no difficulty) which holds the records of closed/older accounts.

 

I don't know how far back the system goes- but it must be pre-1994.

 

I applied for ten years worth of statements from Halifax, and received them.

 

A & L stated they didn't have the records.
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In relation to HSBC -

 

Here goes, sent in a SAR since the inception of my account. HSBC are adamant they do not keep data longer than 6 years, I just cant believe this, surely it is lurking on their archive systems.......

 

Sent this off to HSBC

 

Thank you for your e-message reply dated 31-01-07.

 

I am in receipt of copy statements from the period 1 January 2000 to current day however my request was for all data contained from the inception of my account whether this be in the form of statements, fiche or other recording methods. I also require any data that has been archived onto your archival system and will be prepared to foot the cost for this effort if required. I still request copy statements or the

equivalent information as stored for the period of the commencement of my account to December 1999. In short I require all data in whatever format held by HSBC on me prior to 1 January 2000.

 

Should you advise that you do not have such information could you please confirm this by stating HSBC does not have any data relating to account number ********* dated before 1 January 2000 I require exact confirmation of when and how my data was destroyed and confirmation of your company policy on data retention. Should a claim be made in Court I will seek an order from the Court requiring disclosure of your policy document should you fail to disclose it now.

I look forward to your reply.

 

Recieved this back from them....

 

 

 

Our Reference **********

 

Dear Mr [edit]

 

Bank Account No: **************

 

Thank you for your e-message received on 1 February 2007.

 

I apologise for any inconvenience caused.

 

However, as advised in your earlier e-message, I confirm that, as per the Data Protection Act's terms and conditions, we are not allowed to keep customers information on our records for more than six years. Please note that this ruling applies for all banks within UK.

 

As such, please be advised that it is not our intention to destroy any of your records which are more than six years old. However, under the Data Protection Act ruling, we are obliged to action this.

 

Therefore, as advised in your earlier e-message, I regret to inform that we are unable to provide any statement copies which exceeds six years ago.

 

Kindly accept our apology again for any inconvenience caused with regards to this matter.

 

For further clarification and assistance, please contact our Customer Telephone Services at 08457 404 404 (UK), +44 1226 261 010 (International), or visit any local HSBC UK branch, where my colleagues there will be glad to assist you accordingly.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us, should you have any further queries.

 

 

Kind regards

MV Krishnan

HSBC Internet Banking Support

 

and this posted yesterday (also HSBC)

 

Bong, as far I am aware, they hold statements, on microfiche, for 10+ years, but dont have precise figure. I will look into it.

 

...Anyway, will look into the statements thing (with ex-colleagues) and come back with more certainty.

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Lloyds TSB sent me statements to Dec 2000. Posting SAR tommorow to ask for more! What's the betting they're gone????

Barclays - 2 Accounts - WON

Capital 1 - WON with CI

LTSB - WON

LTSB pre 6 years - N1 for non compliance filed

Barclays pre 6 years - Prelim sent

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Halifax sent me statements back to the account opening in 1994- but I had to ring them, and hassle them before they would do it as they thought we "could only claim back six years" so why would we need any further back.

 

I informed him he was wrong, and he sent ALL of the statements for 2 accounts.

Nationwide-A&L-Halifax 1-Student Loans Company-NatWest-Virgin Media-Link-Capital One ALL WON!

Thames Credit -statute barred sent 13/11/08

BCW- prove debt letter- 14/08/08

Apex- CCA 14/08/08

Redcats UK- SAR 14/04/09

Call Serve- CCA 14/08/08

Littlewoods- no CCA letter 03/09/08- Lowells now

Wescot- CCA 19/9/08

Capital One/Debitas- now with Lowells

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. All information has been obtained from this site. If you are unsure, please seek professional advice. .

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Halifax sent me statements back to the account opening in 1994- but I had to ring them, and hassle them before they would do it as they thought we "could only claim back six years" so why would we need any further back.

 

I informed him he was wrong, and he sent ALL of the statements for 2 accounts.

 

Good work Bong!

 

That's crazy the guy said that Emma - they HAVE to send you EVERYTHING they hold once they ahve received a sar - for as far back as they have it, not just 6 years because they thought u could nly claim back that far.

 

Did u get that in writing? I would refer it on to the ICO!

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

Default removals:

un1boy v Equifax - Default removal

un1boy vs Experian - Default removal

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I wish I could get anything reasonable out of the Halifax in writing- you should see their defence! :D

Nationwide-A&L-Halifax 1-Student Loans Company-NatWest-Virgin Media-Link-Capital One ALL WON!

Thames Credit -statute barred sent 13/11/08

BCW- prove debt letter- 14/08/08

Apex- CCA 14/08/08

Redcats UK- SAR 14/04/09

Call Serve- CCA 14/08/08

Littlewoods- no CCA letter 03/09/08- Lowells now

Wescot- CCA 19/9/08

Capital One/Debitas- now with Lowells

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. All information has been obtained from this site. If you are unsure, please seek professional advice. .

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For clairifcation the SAR from the template library asks the bank for all your charges and transactional details for the whiole account history but this would not automatically mean every bit of information they hold on you.

 

The DPA allows for subjects to ask for specific information rather than requesting everyhting.

 

If you want everything not just details of transactions and charges then you should considere revising the SAR from the template library to gfit your needs.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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two members have sent me letters from barclays stating they hold 12 years worth of data.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

  • Haha 1

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Just a summary of what we have in this thread so far -

 

 

Abbey - 1926 -80 odd years!

 

A&L -

 

Barclays - 12 years

 

Barclaycard -

 

Co-op -

 

Co-op credit card (per Glenn's thread) - 1997 - 10 years

 

Halifax - 1991 - 16 years

 

HSBC -

 

Lloyds TSB -

 

NatWest - 1992 - 15 years

 

Nationwide -

 

RBS - 15 years

 

Yorkshire - 7 years (possibly 10)

 

 

 

 

still a few gaps to fill!

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Nearly forgot HSBC showed me a copy of my original agreement on their computer screen recently, the account was closed around ten years ago!

 

I haven't had a response to my SAR as of yet so we'll see what they say.

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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I hold one of these letters, this is open to all users should they require it.

 

I too have a letter which states:

 

"Unfortunately we have been unable to provide you with all of the copy statements requested. This is because we only have a requirement to hold backdated account ledger information for a period of 12 years"

However Barclaycard have said the have destroyed my statements from 2000 and previous to this. What can I do about this as have conflicting info from in effect the same people???

 

Any thoughts Livelylad??

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tanz, Barclays and Barclaycard are separate entities - I read it in a letter from the information commissioner.

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