Taking Cabot to court for failing to supply HSBC CCA + Distress etc

[ODC]

DCA bosses blame evil CAG forum for telling consumers their rights. Its not fair moan bosses. I may have to give up my home in the bahamas and my yacht they moan in unison. Calls for the Consumer Credit Act to be repealed. Calls for files to be sent to Yourapain Courts

[tbern123]

Okay I have finished off my next email to Cabot. As the 6th April is fast approaching, I hope everyone is getting their Financial Ombudsman Complaints ready. Remember.. they will charge Cabot over £400.00 for every complaint they investigate, even if they don't uphold the complaint

 

----- Original Message ----- From: Tbern123

To: [email protected] ; [email protected]

Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected]

Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 7:26 PM

Subject: URGENT RESPONSE REQUIRED

 

28 March 2007

 

 

Dear Mr Maynard

 

 

Firstly, please accept my sincere apologies for the delay in providing you with a written response to the letter from your legal representative, Hodsons Solicitors. I would like to take this opportunity to inform you that I intend to delay the instigation of litigation proceedings in relation to the alleged Barclaycard account, your ref: 1173130. I have taken the decision to delay litigation, as I intend to make a formal complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service in relation to the conduct of Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd and in relation to the way my complaint has been handled.

 

I first contacted Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd on 8th September 2006. I am extremely disappointed that after six months, I find myself still being forced to write to you. I understand that Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd, do not believe that they are the creditor as defined in section 189 of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. I understand that this opinion has been formed as you feel that only the rights and not the duties of a consumer credit agreement are assigned and that this belief is based on section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

This view is further reinforced in the article published on the Cabot Financial website by your colleague Mr Glen Crawford, entitled “Legal Misconceptions in Debt Sale and Administration”. Mr Crawford, quotes the Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, as saying:

 

"When explaining the new category of licence during parliamentary debate, the Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry said that the category was intended to cover those who “purchase portfolios of existing loans and administer them”.

 

Just as Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd feel that are not the creditor, I feel that they are. I would like to take this opportunity to fully clarify my thoughts. Mr Crawford is willing to accept the opinions of Mr. Gerry Sutcliffethe Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, you should also be aware of the other comments he made:

 

“There is a problem with the existing coverage of the licensing regime. It is not clear that businesses that purchase a portfolio of existing loans require a licence. The Department of Trade and Industry, the Office of Fair Trading and advice bodies have received complaints about businesses that purchase existing debts. Consumers are often confused about who is responsible for the contract and what controls there are on those businesses.”

 

He continues...

 

“Hon. Members will see that the definition of consumer credit business now covers businesses relating to the provision of credit by a person, or otherwise being a creditor. A creditor is a person who provides credit under an agreement or a person to whom the rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of the law. The new definition ensures that businesses will need a licence even if they are no longer making new agreements. They will need a licence if they only administer existing agreements by taking over the rights and duties of the creditor. The same logic applies for the new definition of consumer hire business.”

Mr. Gerry Sutcliffethe Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, also states:

 

“Under clause 23, a debt purchaser who became a creditor or owner when he purchased the loan would require a licence.”

Source: House of Commons Standing Committee D Tuesday 28 June 2005.

 

In summary the source quoted by your colleague Mr Glen Crawford, has stated on record that a debt purchaser, (in this instance Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd) becomes the creditor when they purchase the loan. Furthermore, as the Chairman of the Debt Buyers and Sellers Group “The Voice of the Debt Sale and Purchase Industry”. I presume, you are aware that your colleague Dr Roger Lucas of the Lewis Group and of the Debt Buyers and Sellers Group is quoted by Credit Today Online Magazine as saying:

 

"When we take assignment of debts we stand in the place of the original creditor so it’s only right we should have the same obligations and rights."

 

This statement is contradictory to your own article published on the Cabot Financial website, in which you state:

 

“In addition, Citizens Advice is currently pursuing a series of court cases which challenge the right of debt purchasers to pursue a regulated debt through the courts. They argue that according to the definition of ‘creditor’ under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a purchaser must prove that he has acquired the duties as well as the rights to a consumer credit agreement before he can become the ‘creditor’ and therefore pursue the right to sue for the debt. This goes against the general industry belief that section 139 of the Law of Property Act 1925 applies in the case of debt purchase, which only requires that written notice of the assignment is given to the debtor in order to complete a legal assignment of a debt, and again has serious implications for the industry”.

I would also like to refer you to the following court case UNADKAT & Co (ACCOUNTANTS) LTD And ASHOK BHARDWAJ .V. The TREASURY SOLICITOR [2006] EWHC 2785 (Ch) paragraph 2. This case confirms that by virtue of a debt assignment, the interested party becomes the creditor.

 

In summary I have provided three sources to support my belief.

1. Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe the Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (previously quoted by Mr Glen Crawford)
   
2. Dr Roger Lucas of the Lewis Group and of the Debt Buyers and Sellers Group (of which you are the Chairman). I also understand that Dr Lucas is / was the Vice President of the Credit Services Association, of which Cabot Financial is a member.
   
3. Legal precedence.

I trust that these examples establish that Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd are the creditor for the purpose of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I also hope that you will reconsider your legal status and the responses that will be provided in future.

 

I would now like to take this opportunity to refer you to Hodsons letter of 20 February 2007.

 

“Any damage that must have been suffered by a debtor in order for him or her to receive compensation under the Data Protection Act, must be actual pecuniary loss, where a debtor is refused further credit by reason of an adverse but accurate credit history, or where an accurate credit history causes a lender to offer a loan at a higher rate of interest than it would offer to a person with a less adverse credit history, it is the adverse credit history which causes any such losses the debtor may suffer”

 

In addition to the above extract, I would also refer you to Mr Crawford's previously mentioned article:

 

“In order for a debtor to receive compensation under the Data Protection Act, or to have accurate data erased, any financial damage suffered must have been caused by the data controller's contravention of the Act (see sections 13 and 14 and Johnson v The Medical Defence Union, Times 4th April 2006). Where, due to an accurate adverse credit history, a debtor is refused further credit or is offered a loan at a higher rate of interest than a person with a less adverse credit history, then it is the adverse credit history which causes any such loss as the debtor may suffer.”

 

As you are now aware the Barclaycard consumer credit agreement, was not signed by Barclaycard and is unenforceable. However, Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd, did not bother to check the validity of this alleged debt. Instead, through Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd, they reported information regarding a default to the Credit Reference Agencies. As this default was partially responsible for the additional interest I have paid in relation to a Hire Purchase agreement for a motor vehicle, I accept the comments made by Mr Crawford and your legal representatives Hodsons, that you will agree that compensation is warranted in these circumstances. I would appreciate your comments in relation to this matter.

 

I would also appreciate you comments in relation to how Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd, can justify making 69 phone calls (including calls to one of my neighbours and a former work place) and sending 9 letters, without first establishing that an actual debt exists.

 

Furthermore, I am concerned to note the harassment demonstrated by your employees. As confirmed by the records you hold about me, on 2 September 2006, one of your employees, called my place of residence at 9:42 a.m. They were told that I was not at home. At 9:44 a.m, within 2 minutes of the first phone call, another telephone call was made to my place of residence.

 

I would also like to take this opportunity to express my concerns, in relation to the penalty interest added to the balance of the alleged debt by Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd, when they had not even had sight of the original agreement or the terms and conditions of that agreement. Clearly, serious mistakes have been made in relation to the way in which this account was handled. I am sure you will agree that the conduct of Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd and Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd has been totally unacceptable.

 

I welcome your proposals in relation to the financial settlement of my concerns.

 

Regards

 

[Rhia]

Tbern top marks. I too have a cracker stockpiled for April and the FOS and I don't think we're alone.

But I will still wager that all you will get back is a bland yet arrogant template letter from this Willem Wellinghof person which denies everything, apologises for no wrong doing and basically saying they really are the good guys.

[tbern123]

Tbern top marks. I too have a cracker stockpiled for April and the FOS and I don't think we're alone.

But I will still wager that all you will get back is a bland yet arrogant template letter from this Willem Wellinghof person which denies everything, apologises for no wrong doing and basically saying they really are the good guys.

 

:-?

 

Am I the only who WW has not written too ?

[Rhia]

If he doesn't get in touch with you soon I am going to call him and ask him to write to you. Otherwise add it to the writ.

"For systematically and persistently ignoring Tbern, WW is in default of the Seriously Effective Consumer Champions Act 2007. Maximum penalty - a stretch in one of those Nicaraguan jails.":-D

[tbern123]

If he doesn't get in touch with you soon I am going to call him and ask him to write to you. Otherwise add it to the writ.

"For systematically and persistently ignoring Tbern, WW is in default of the Seriously Effective Consumer Champions Act 2007. Maximum penalty - a stretch in one of those Nicaraguan jails.":-D

 

lol, am I being discrimated against ???????

[ODC]

:-?

 

Am I the only who WW has not written too ?

You and me both. Obviously we just get the monkeys and not the Organ grinder

[InKogneeToh]

Hi tbern

 

Another great letter but IMO the overall tone of it is far too NICE! Too many 'request's and 'hope's and 'trust's!!

 

Just tell 'em (politely of course) that you have had enough of their attempts to mislead you with their inaccurate representations of their position and rights and of their blatant disregard for the legislation that was enacted to protect the consumer!!

 

Regards, Pam

[ODC]

Hi tbern

 

Another great letter but IMO the overall tone of it is far too NICE! Too many 'request's and 'hope's and 'trust's!!

 

Just tell 'em (politely of course) that you have had enough of their attempts to mislead you with their inaccurate representations of their position and rights and of their blatant disregard for the legislation that was enacted to protect the consumer!!

 

Regards, Pam

Obviously he wants Ken's job:o

[andrew1]

If he doesn't get in touch with you soon I am going to call him and ask him to write to you. Otherwise add it to the writ.

"For systematically and persistently ignoring Tbern, WW is in default of the Seriously Effective Consumer Champions Act 2007. Maximum penalty - a stretch in one of those Nicaraguan jails.":-D

 

.... and he or his boss sir Ken won't be nominated for the coveted position of Credit Manager of the year in the Credit Today Awards for his outstanding contribution to the Credit Industry ( prize sponserd by his mates at Robinson Way ) dare they give it to him ? :-D

[tbern123]

Bump !!

 

Seahorse is getting more posts then me today lol

[Seahorse]

Hoorah!!!!!

 

I should think so too. My stars are obviously in the ascent, or some such nonsense. Had a promise of an offer from RBS today, too. Just need to hope it's a good one.

[pmhcfc]

Hoorah!!!!!

 

I should think so too. My stars are obviously in the ascent, or some such nonsense. Had a promise of an offer from RBS today, too. Just need to hope it's a good one.

 

You think ole WW is igornoring people at the moment...Cabot seem soooo quiet...quite un-nerving...

[tbern123]

Hoorah!!!!!

 

I should think so too. My stars are obviously in the ascent, or some such nonsense. Had a promise of an offer from RBS today, too. Just need to hope it's a good one.

 

lol, I am only kidding...... I had to do something before I posted something I would regret in your thread

[tbern123]

You think ole WW is igornoring people at the moment...Cabot seem soooo quiet...quite un-nerving...

 

 

I think they are most likely considering their options and their next move. It must have been a hard pill for them to swallow, now that they know they are the creditor

[tbern123]

This is not exactly breaking news

npil - asset warehousing, corporate and portfolio acquisitions

 

But, it might be worth cc'ing all future emails to

 

[email protected]

 

Turn the heat up a little

[Rhia]

So, this is who is responsible for Roadchef! They should be made to eat their own food.

Also somewhat concerned to see they have the StudENt Loans business. I have always been uneasy with this idea as I have seen too many young people trying to get and education and end up horrendously in debt before they even start out in the world.

Yes make them eat either their fish and chips which my friend told them was the worst she had EVER eaten (and they gave us a refund)or the salmon sandwiches that didn't have any err salmon in but seemingly quite a lot of sand .

And getting to the point Tbern I agree pump up the volume wherever and whever.

pm don't worry about the silence. It can, on occasion, be deafening but when have they actually made a noise? All they actually do is rustle old papers, rejig a few paragraphs and issue a few lines which make us smile...quite a lot.

[louiboy]

I sent the CEO of NIKKO a copy of my last complaint to Car Boot. Said he'd pop round to Car Boot Towers and have a word. Thought he should be aware that the behaviour of Car Boot may influence his investment opportunity.

 

Remember the value of your investment can fall.

[pmhcfc]

This is not exactly breaking news

npil - asset warehousing, corporate and portfolio acquisitions

 

THE BUSINESS

Cabot was established in 1998 And besides, they only bought 60 odd% of it per say...KM and Corn Legs kept a share as did Barclays...I wonder if the American company are still buying Nikko....

 

Cabot Financial is known and has been known under so many guises (or should that be DISguises) that it's hard for me to keep up, and I've done some digging...

 

It's fair to say that a lot of these companies and people are all in each other's pockets. If they ever got properly looked at, it'd be one gigantic spider web...I wonder if would bother any of them if they knew how much of what I/we know that doesn't get posted here, I doubt it...

 

I'll be searching for something and I'll see a name or a date pop up, and it immediately triggers something..I then backtrack on all my notes and see why that name/date rang a bell...There's so much 'interlocking' that you'd be shocked by the enourmity of it all.....Rant Over

[pmhcfc]

I sent the CEO of NIKKO a copy of my last complaint to Car Boot. Said he'd pop round to Car Boot Towers and have a word. Thought he should be aware that the behaviour of Car Boot may influence his investment opportunity.

 

Remember the value of your investment can fall.

 

Ken and Glen still own a decent share in Cabot Financial

[ODC]

Ken and Glen still own a decent share in Cabot Financial

Bit like a share in the Titanic then

[elizabeth1]

Bit like a share in the Titanic then

 

 

YEP!!! That's the one!!!

[Notty]

Hi All

 

I have cca'd Cabot not heard a thing, well over the time. My claim with Monument is awaiting their defence and I have asked them to remove the default as well as refund my charges. I was paying Cabot a token £1 a month but since they didnt supply me with the original agreement I have not paid them. Today I got a letter from Cabot saying that I had not paid them anything and they would take me to court. What is the best move now? It is Kingshill who are placing the default every month. Should I start a claim against Cabot or wait to see what happens with Monument? Also is there a letter I should send to Cabot to tell them they never supplied the original agreement? Thanks for your help.

[Seahorse]

Hmmm. Now, I'm in a similar position in that, Cabot didn't send me what could be described as an agreement.

 

Soooo.... if I had a letter like that, I'd be well chuffed. It would save me having to take them to court.

[elizabeth1]

Hi All

 

I have cca'd Cabot not heard a thing, well over the time. My claim with Monument is awaiting their defence and I have asked them to remove the default as well as refund my charges. I was paying Cabot a token £1 a month but since they didnt supply me with the original agreement I have not paid them. Today I got a letter from Cabot saying that I had not paid them anything and they would take me to court. What is the best move now? It is Kingshill who are placing the default every month. Should I start a claim against Cabot or wait to see what happens with Monument? Also is there a letter I should send to Cabot to tell them they never supplied the original agreement? Thanks for your help.

 

Notty - let them try take it to court !!! This way it saves you the costs?? They'll file their claim with Hodsons Solicitors in Rugby more than likely (Hodsons bunk in with the messaging services people who keep pestering with phone calls)

 

If they do file a claim - write back to court telling them you already CCA'd Cabots etc.. and they haven't shown you anything to prove the original agreement etc.. - show court copies of any letters etc. that back up what you are saying.

 

This way you can ask court to intervene and ask Hodsons to prove the debt? Chances are they'll back off and be struck out of court for lack of evidence.