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    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
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Myk3yB v HSBC


Mik3yB
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Hi folks,

 

I've been reading up on the whole bank charge claims affair and so on for the past few months and was very apprehensive from the point of view of little me going up against the mega corporation of HSBC...

 

After reading so many success stories on these forums I decided that I might be in with a chance.

 

On Friday I wrote sent (by recorded delivery) my prelim letter for £2647 using a template.

 

I've read, in depth, the sequence of events from the successful claimants and hope that it's not too long after the initial 28 days that I get my refund.

I have my LBA letter ready to send on 9th April :)

 

What is the longest and shortest cases for this kind of value? I assume onlt the smaller claims get dealt with within 28 days and the ones over £1k take up to a couple of months?

 

Thanks for any input you guys can give me. I think the forums are great I will donate something if everything goes to plan :)

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You never know at the moment you could in theory get an offer in a weeks time on the other hand it could take three months plus a bit to get your money back. All we can say with a great sense of certainty is that you will get your money back if you follow the process in this forum. :)

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Guide to claiming back your bank charges

 

Most of your questions can be answered by following this link.

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hiya mik

welcome to the forum. it's not about how long it takes to claim back your money, if you're serious about claiming, it doesn't matter - you'll get it back as long as you stick to your timescales, guidelines and advice from here. you'll be okay. good luck:-)

If i've been helpful in any way....then tip my scales over there!

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...it's not about how long it takes to claim back your money, if you're serious about claiming....

 

I'm not in a hurry as such - the way I see it, is that if I get my money back then I'll treat it as a bonus. If I sat and did nothing I wouldn't ever see a penny of it....

 

I'm just rather skint and could do with the money pretty soon. All good things come to those who wait I suppose.

 

Thanks for the welcome nettyg, and the amount of friendly people on here - it's very refreshing.

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Hi MiK3yB and welcome to the forum, its very good to read a thread where the person has obviously read up some before starting, if you stick to your timescales and not let them extend these then in a months time you could be at court stages which is usually the time they pay up, in the end its all the same, any questions ask away, update your thread even when it seems pretty normal stuff so if you require any help peeps can look at the history, good luck.

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Hi folks,

 

I've been reading up on the whole bank charge claims affair and so on for the past few months and was very apprehensive from the point of view of little me going up against the mega corporation of HSBC...

 

After reading so many success stories on these forums I decided that I might be in with a chance.

 

On Friday I wrote sent (by recorded delivery) my prelim letter for £2647 using a template.

 

I've read, in depth, the sequence of events from the successful claimants and hope that it's not too long after the initial 28 days that I get my refund.

I have my LBA letter ready to send on 9th April :)

 

What is the longest and shortest cases for this kind of value? I assume onlt the smaller claims get dealt with within 28 days and the ones over £1k take up to a couple of months?

 

Thanks for any input you guys can give me. I think the forums are great I will donate something if everything goes to plan :)

 

there's just no telling what kind of timescales there are in respect to getting your money back. my first claim took me 4 months to the day and it went as far as me filing my aq - they offered full settlement on the day it was filed!! (godamn), my second claim - which i wasn't so 'precious' about was offered after only 2 months and before i filed a claim in court. i think patience is the order of the day - you will get it back

If i've been helpful in any way....then tip my scales over there!

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Hi Mik,

 

I'm fairly new to it all aswell, claiming £3069 back from HSBC. I sent my prelim and received a standard 'we note your concerns' letter with an enclosed leaflet. Stuck to my schedule and sent LBA, their 14 days will be up on Monday. No response to my 2nd letter, so have to go the whole hog I guess.

 

Good luck, I'll keep you informed!

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Hi Mik,

 

I'm fairly new to it all aswell, claiming £3069 back from HSBC. I sent my prelim and received a standard 'we note your concerns' letter with an enclosed leaflet. Stuck to my schedule and sent LBA, their 14 days will be up on Monday. No response to my 2nd letter, so have to go the whole hog I guess.

 

Good luck, I'll keep you informed!

 

like we just need plenty of shiny leaflets to read through right?? lol

sorry but i wallpapered my walls with the letters that came back from colin langdale so no room for shiny leaflets lol

If i've been helpful in any way....then tip my scales over there!

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Particularly like the part of the leaflet that says;

 

' If we are unable to resolve matters on the spot, we will send you a letter of acknowledgement within five working days to confirm that we are investigating the matters you have raised.'

 

This came 8 working days after prelim and clearly covers LBA too!!:p

 

Although, I have used it since to jot down all the tel numbers and email addresses for DG staff, funny feeling I'll need 'em soon!

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yes, hi mik3yb - sounds like you are in good hands.

if i may, i'll just point out a couple of beginner's common misteaks (ha) just so you don't fall in -

are you considering claiming for those interest debits which you see on your statements - that is overdraft interest and you can't just plop them on with the others - they need to be figured on the advanced s/s - reading the instructions - get back if you need help. or ignore the interest debits and use the simple s/s.

which brings me to my second - beginner's mistake - don't send statements with your prelim or lba - you must send either a list with date, name of charge and amount or you send the simple s/s with the 8% interest column hidden - as that is for when you file your claim and not before.

welcome to the forum - good luck with your claim.

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yes, hi mik3yb - sounds like you are in good hands.

if i may, i'll just point out a couple of beginner's common misteaks (ha) just so you don't fall in -

are you considering claiming for those interest debits which you see on your statements - that is overdraft interest and you can't just plop them on with the others - they need to be figured on the advanced s/s - reading the instructions - get back if you need help. or ignore the interest debits and use the simple s/s.

which brings me to my second - beginner's mistake - don't send statements with your prelim or lba - you must send either a list with date, name of charge and amount or you send the simple s/s with the 8% interest column hidden - as that is for when you file your claim and not before.

welcome to the forum - good luck with your claim.

 

I'm not claiming for the interest figures, just the total charges, recall charges and notified fee charges. They're all extortionate. Ranging from £27.50 in 2001 and 2002 and then they are even higher more recently.

 

I checked on the Royal Mail site and the prelim letter has been signed for.

 

If I am wrong in any of my figures (which I don't believe I am (hopefully)) I can make any double checks/amendments when I come to send my LBA.

 

I haven't added any percentages at all at this point, it's just the flat fee's that I have quoted on to them..

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Good evening folks,

 

Although I have sent off my Prelim letter last week I just want to double-check with people as to what I have claimed for.

 

I reference to the Bank Charges thread/FAQ in bold.

 

* returned direct debits - I have claimed these at £30 a charge.

* card misuse fees - I have claimed on a couple of these, £10 and £30

* unpaid standing orders - n/a

* unpaid item fees - n/a

* exceeding your overdraft - I have claimed for multiple charges at £27.50, £30, £50, £75, £100 & £125

* referral fee - n/a

* overdraft interest (see below) - I didn't include these.

* total charges (see below) - The exceeding my overdraft charges above were listed as "DR Total Charges" on my statements.

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

Also, to go along with all the other threads of this nature can an admin or mod change the title to "Mik3yB Vs HSBC" ?

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Small update -

 

Received the standard "thank you for your letter etc etc" this morning.

 

Colin Langdale is asking for a breakdown which I omitted from my prelim letter - I will include this with my LBA on Friday.

I have also in the meantime signed up online for MCOL so that is all prepared.

 

Funny thing about this letter is at the bottom it says he has included the spare sheet of toilet paper - erm... I mean leaflet..

 

They must have run out..... ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sent my LBA today via Recorded (with schedule of charges this time!).

 

I know it's over 14 days since my Prelim, but the Bank Holiday messed things up.

 

I have however, been a bit cheeky and dated the letter 6th April (14 days from Prelim). Letters have arrived from then ages after the date printed on them, so why can't I? ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

New update!

 

Claimed on MCOL website for the amount including the 8% interest (taking the figure over £3,200..!

 

Will print out two copies of schedule of charges including the 8% interest from work tomorrow and send recorded delivery to the MCOL along with the covering letter asking them to attach the schedule to my claim.

 

Then I wait... ooh errr... :S

 

Wish me luck!

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