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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Yorkshire bank and the Limitation Act - claiming beyond 6 yrs


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On the basis of the Whistleblower dislcsoures you may want to consider claiming beyond 6 years if your account has been open that long and you have received charges during the pre-6 year period.

 

This is because it seems clear from the BBC programme that the YB operate a highly structured system intended to audit the cost of handling a delinquent account and probably also in order to refine the process with a view to profit.

 

This would mean that the Yorkshire Bank is fully aware of the facts and very likely have been for some time.

 

We believe that the protection which they enjoy from the Limitation Act falls away in these circumstances.

 

Furthermore we believe that on the basis of the BBC disclosures any existing full and final settlement agreement is vitiated.

 

At the end of the day it is a matter for the court to decide or a matter for the YB to offer their simple explanation for what otherwise seems to be a very puzzling set of circumstances.

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Bankfodder, how do I tackle this when my claim has already been submited to the court? I do have further costs on one account going back another 6 years. Do I have to put in another claim? Also very interested in your comment on any full and final settlement agreement being vitiated. Should I be writing to the Yorkshire Bank following the BBCs revelations and if so, what do I say? I would really appreciate any advise you can give me.

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I'm trying to get more than 6 years statements from them, so far They have sent 6 years, so I sent them a letter as follows:

Dear sirs,

Thank you for your statements regarding my request under the data protection act.

It appears however that you have only supplied information from ............

You are reminded that under the Data Protection act 1998 that you are obliged to supply ALL requested data.

If it is the case that you no longer hold data pre 6 years can you please confirm this to me in writing.I will give you a further 14 days to reply to this request.

Failure to do so will result in a complaint to the ICO and the FOS.

I trust this clarifies the position.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

I sent this recorded on tuesday so will have to wait and see what happens

 

(this was done with the help of martin3030)

HFC go get them:-)

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Had they reached the 40 day limit by the time they responded to your 6 yrs statements?

 

If so then complain to the IC immediately. You should not hesitate to do this. The bank has a statutory duty and they have to be reminded of it by firm action.

You should also begin your claim immediately for the charges of which you are aware. You can go on to add the others once they finally comply with their statutory obligations. Whilst you are waiting for them to give you the rest of your statements you should include in your County Court claim, a claim in respect of their breach of their DPA obligations.

 

Don't forget that this is a bank which has made a practice of being hard-nosed with their innocent and vulnerable trusting customers. Now we have seen the BBC Whistleblower CYNthesys disclosures. The disclosures have been presented to MPs and journalists and have been described in the press and the banks has offered no comment.

This is the bank which has attempted to refuse to pay statutory interest to some its customers on the grounds that the customers have misused their accounts when in fact there is evidence to suggest a very different story.

This is the bank which when it finds itself under pressure to comply with its lawful obligations, instead of taking steps to deal with its business properly, come bleating to its customers asking for more time.

 

How the mighty fall - and there may be a long way to go yet.

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@BankFodder

I received the statements after the 40 days for 2 accounts, but as yet have not received any for another account, the 40 days were up on the 31st march.

Should I now send a letter to complain to the IC if so is there a template letter I should use.

HFC go get them:-)

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I don't think we have an IC template but check with a mod.

I'm afraid that I have lost track of what we have and what we don't a long time ago.

It's not hard though.

Just say that on XXdateXX you made a request for disclosure (copy enclosed) under the DPA. Despite your reminders they have only made partial disclosure and have failed to respond to your further requests.

Please will he treat your letter as a formal complaint under the DPA.

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Alternatively there is an online complaint form on the ICO website. The website is a mine of helpful information and well worth a browse.

 

Data Protection Complaints – Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO)

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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You should update on your own thread davisb so that people can follow where in the process you are :)

 

Sarah.

Yorkshire Bank

Started Process 19th Sept 2006.

All Stages Followed.

Next Step Court!

Hearing Date 7th June 2007.

WON!!!!! 6th June 2007 :D

 

Frequently Asked Questions

Example Step-By-Step Instructions

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@sajabu2003 I will update my thread,

This thread is a sticky

Yorkshire bank and the Limitation Act - claiming beyond 6 yrs

 

I wasn't going to use this thread about my claim, all I was asking was should I post what happens about getting the rest of my statements here. As I'm sure others would like to claim more than 6 years and it would be easier for people to find the information needed quicker than having to read evey thread in this forum

HFC go get them:-)

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I appreciate the point you are making davsib, but I'll just stick a link to your thread here and that way, your claim info is all together, and people reading this thread can easily read your progress and look at the limitations issue. I hope you agree that should work.:)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/yorkshire-bank-clydesdale-bank/64242-davsib-yorkshire-bank.html

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am not sure if I am posting in the correct place or if I should start a new thread.

I am currently claiming my last 6 years charges from yorkshire bank and after recent information I decided to start claiming back over 6 years so

I sent another S.A.R request and £10 to yorkshire bank requesting statements from 1992 -2001.

 

Today I have recieved a response saying that the DSA regulations are only in force for the last 6 years and copy statements pre 6 years are at a cost of £5 each. They say to send me the other 113 statements they need a cheque off me for £555

 

Is this right?

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It is absolutely incorrect. This link takes you to Section 7 of the Data Protection Act, so if you take a look you'll see that for yourself. There are no mentions of any time limits at all.

 

Data Protection Act 1998

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Do you think I should respond to this letter quoting the data protection act or just go straight to the information commisioner and make a complaint?

 

I sent the S.A.R request to leeds but this response has come from the branch manager at my local bank

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If the 40 days haven't expired you could write and point out their error and remind them how long they have to comply. You might also take a look at this very useful post and try a different approach, which may just get things moving if the 40 days have finished.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/yorkshire-bank-clydesdale-bank/85275-yb-exceeding-40-days.html

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello All

Re claiming pre 6 years. I have claimed up to the 6 years on three accounts and received payment from them back in early 07. Now I am tempted to go back and start again pre 6 years. Is there a leter template for doing this. If not - can I claim when I have already received payment for previous claim. Any help please.

Thanks:confused:

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