mariejader v Abbey **DEFENCE STRUCK OUT!**WON**

[alanfromderby]

Just posted about this:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4031

 

It is one of Abbey's many delaying tactics.

[mariejader]

Thanks for that.

 

I will follow up tomorrow, would still be interested to know if anyone has received the Microfiche copy's?

[Bookworm]

I doubt they will, the way I read it, they say that as it's not covered by the Act, they don't have to supply the info, no mention of them actually sending microfiches. Happy to get corrected if I'm worng.

[alanfromderby]

I would certainly be interested if anyone has actually received any in the last couple of weeks. The general gist of the letter is that microfiche statements are outside the scope of the DPA - and this is where the letter gets clever, they say that "in order to help" they have forwarded a print out of the transactions currently on their system.

 

They then say that they have passed on the £10 to the archive department, as they can provide copies of the archived statements for that price (thus keeping the £10), with the promise that they will be sent "in due course".

 

This effectively means that they have refused the DPA request - without every actually using those words. Very crafty - but clever!

 

Since they adopted this approach, I have not seen one post saying that anyone has received these statements, and without the constraints of the DPA time limit, I would not be surprised if the archive department has conveniently developed a severe staff shortage......or am I just being cynical?

[mariejader]

They returned my £10 and advised me they would send the statements foc.

 

I have the direct telephone number for Shena Small so I will be calling her again tomorrow and see what her response is

[alanfromderby]

Let us know what she says.....of course that's assuming she does exist.

 

I must not be so cynical.

I must not be so cynical.

I must not be so cynical.

I must not be so cynical.

I must not be so cynical.

I must not be so cynical.

I must not be so cynical.

I must not be so cynical.

I must not be so cy....

[Seminole]

Of course she exists! In fact it's becoming very obvious why Abbey have Data Protection "Consultants". It seems to be their job to delay, frustrate and treat customers with utter contempt in a bid to stop them claiming their unlawful charges back.

 

In case anyone from Abbey is reading... IT WON'T WORK

[Jamloo]

Does this help ?? Need Dave or BankFodder or Seminole or a MOD to check...

 

"The Data Protection Act 1998 came into force on 1 March 2000 - replacing the earlier 1984 DPA. It defines the rules of processing personal information. These rules apply to all data storage systems including paper, film (such as microfiche) and computer based records."

 

This was taken from http://www.morrisby.com/technical/DataProtectionAndPsychometrics.asp and although relates to Psychometric tests, it does state that DPA rules apply to all data storgae systems.

[alanfromderby]

Unfortunately, the question is more technical, and microfiche can be seen as a very grey area.

 

My understanding of the issue is that it depends on the indexing system used. However, it stretches the bounds of reasonable thinking to accept any suggestion that a bank would not have microfiche records fully indexed by name and/or account number.

[Jamloo]

Cheers Alan...

 

That would agree with this...

 

Michael Wills MP, Parliamentary Secretary at the Lord Chancellor's Department, explained in a speech to the Local Government Association delivered on 21 November 2001 that the extension beyond computerized files introduced by the DPA was a 'limited extension'.

 

'Three criteria must be met for a manual record to be within the scope of the Act:

 

the information must be part of a structured set of information relating to individuals;

the structuring must be done by reference to individuals or by reference to criteria relating to individuals (for example- a unique personal identification number); and

the structuring must allow specific information relating to a particular individual to be readily accessible.'

 

 

All three would and should be definately in place by a bank so therefore surely microfiche has to be compliant.

 

AND THIS FROM EXPERIAN's Website.. http://www.uk.experian.com/corporate/compliance/dataprotection/index.html

 

What Data are covered?

All personal data relating to living identifiable individuals are covered, including data relating to opinions and intentions.

 

It is important to remember that the Act also applies to sole traders, partners, directors and shareholders.

 

There are also provisions covering Sensitive Personal Data, such as racial or ethnic origin and criminal convictions, which have more stringent consent requirements.

 

Manual records include "relevant filing systems" covering paper files and card index and microfiche systems. To be caught under the Act these manual files must be structured and accessible but if merely in date order or of a general nature, this would not be sufficient to bring them under the provisions of the Act. These manual records also need to relate to particular individuals and specific subject matter.

[mariejader]

She does exist I have already spoken with her, she was quite nice to.

[alanfromderby]

She does exist I have already spoken with her, she was quite nice to.

 

Did she say anything worthwhile?

[mariejader]

nothing that I can really remember to be honest, I did not really want to get into conversation with her, but she was telling me that the DPA letters everyone is sending in are incorrect! as I don't know enough about the law I thought it was best just to say yes and no rather than put my size 9's in and shoot myself in the foot.

[mariejader]

any advice before I ring this am?

[dave]

The information in the DPA letter is NOT incorrect.

 

We have spoken to the IC's office and although they agree that microfiche would not be covered, they adviced that a list of charges (as opposed to statements) WOULD be covered by the act.

 

Tell that to her.

 

I suppose she knows the DPA better than the people charged with upholding it does she?

 

Hmmmm...that's why she's working for a bank.

 

BTW, even Barclaycard conceded that a list of charges is covered - but not microfiche - although, they did send a list for the last 6 years - so, is it on microfiche or isn't it?

 

Sadly, I had one bank trip up and tell me that their microfiche would be based on account number and not in date order - thus covered by the act under a 'relevent filing system'.

[natalie]

Michael Wills MP, Parliamentary Secretary at the Lord Chancellor's Department, explained in a speech to the Local Government Association delivered on 21 November 2001 that the extension beyond computerized files introduced by the DPA was a 'limited extension'.

 

 

Michael Wills is my MP and he is really helpful. email him at [email protected] (much quicker that at the email address on his website). Tell him the problem and I'm certain he will clear things up and advise what to do.

 

From what I've seen here he is the only MP so far to stick his neck out and agree with us.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3867

 

 

Natalie

[mariejader]

Ok just spoken to Sheena Small, this is what she said

 

1. All microfiche details are held at Bradford

2. They cannot provide computer printout's of accounts

3. They only hold information on their systems for 12- 18 months

4. The information stores on Microfiche is not easy to pull it has to be done manually

5. New Microfiches of accounts are done every 2 months

6. Stored in example say Alpha 0-5000

 

Basically above is the answers to my questions, I questioned her on number 2 and said why have other people received printouts she said the films will look like print outs.

 

I asked what if I had a tax inspection and needed this information to which she replied we would have a court order and 21 days to provide the information.

 

I asked why are they the only bank operating this microfiche system, she said they have so many customers their system won't hold all that information, I said well it's funny how all the other banks can do it.

 

And last but not least the best line of all, when I said I don't think it's good enough as I have contacted other banks and have received all the information and I thought they were being difficult she said "WE ARE NOT AVOIDING THE SITUATION WE ARE ORGANISING IT"

 

I am waiting for her to call me back now as she has gone to call Bradford to find out how they are getting on with my request, I will post again once she rings me back, I won't hold my breath

[heppy23]

They make enough money to have a system that can keep the info on it. They choose not to cos they are sweeping info under the carpet.

I bet they come back quick enough with a correction if you submit an estimated claim.

[mariejader]

As some banks are now starting to pay out, I am wondering what impact this is going to have on the rest of us with our claims.

 

I can see this either going two ways, it will make it easier for the rest of us or will the banks start getting cleaver and close the doors to the rest of us.

 

Just wondering what your thoughts are?

[Bovvered]

How can they close the doors - if they do that, the courts will open them for us

[Bookworm]

Absolutely, Bovvered.

 

Marie, don't you think the banks would have slammed the doors a long time ago if they could? They CAN'T. The law is on our side, and they should just count themselves lucky they got away with so much for so long.

[mariejader]

It's just they seem to be creating loads of diversions, Abbey I know are making life difficult, I guess they are doing this with the hope we will give up and won't take them to court.

 

With all the claims going through I am sure the courts are going to start getting very busy.

[mariejader]

I did get a call back from Sheena Small today, she has assured me that my case was one of the first they recieved, not sure how she works this out but has confirmed that the details are being collected and I should be in receipt early next week.

 

So anyone who sent for their information before me you should have or are about to receive them any day if not chase them:rolleyes:

[dave]

Not one has taken it to court - with the exception of Natwest - it's only the courts admin people that get busy with it - and if you consider that (as far as this site is aware) there have still only been 130 odd cases started through the courts.

 

Barclays, for instance are giving in if you ask now - first they offer 50%, then the full amount when a refusal is received.

[alanfromderby]

Mine is about 11 days behind yours - so that makes it about first week in May then.....that is assuming that yours arrive early next week as promised. Oh well, a chink of light on the horizon.