A New Way of Looking at Interest- 1st successful Claim - N'wide

[bill-k]

Dammit, Bong - elbowed me out again !!!

[WendyN]

Hello,

 

sorry to butt in! Am writing about this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank/43392-halifax-offer.html

 

We are following Vampiress' compound spreadsheet: England - Advanced - Excel which allows you to list charges & interest for prior to MCOL, and then charges + 8% & interest + 8% for MCOL. This means that we are claiming compound interest + statutory interest on MCOL. Is this correct? Can we claim both?

I have already taken HSBC to court using the same spreadsheet and won. Now that I have managed to convince my flatmate to do the same thing with Halifax, a couple of people have said that you can't actually claim both, and we're starting to doubt ourselves. Apparently Halifax are disputing the interest on interest, and refusing to pay. Do we know best or do they?!

 

Would really appreciate a hand with this. Have searched many threads about this and am just getting more confused...!

[bill-k]

Hi Wendy - I have worked with a couple Vamp's spreadies, but have used a simpler version for my own claims. However, I have entered three columns for interest on mine, also:-

a. Contractual at unauthorised (higher) rate,

b. Contractual at authorised (lower) rate, and

c. Statutory at 8%

 

The rate I have claimed has always been a. The other two rates are shown for the court's use only, and I now annotate them as such, since some banks think we are offering them these as alternatives - which we are not !!

 

Further back in this thread, you should find Mindzai's posted particulars of claim, in which he claims the above b. & c. rates "in the alternative." I use his POC as my template, and the "alternatives" is the only reason why I include them in my spready. You can only claim one rate of interest, but you can (and I believe you should) claim the alternatives as a safety-net.

If it comes to it, the court decides which rate - not the defendant. But the alternatives are only to be discussed in court, so the bank has to take you in there first !!!

 

Until the court becomes involved, though, your claim is really just between you and the bank, and you claim just the one rate of interest from them (in my case, a.)

 

HTH

 

Bill.

[WendyN]

Thanks for this, Bill K! That's what we thought, just making sure. The claim is now being 'defended' by Halifax. Initially we think this was just to get the extra 14 dyas to respond, however they did say that they would defend the extra money should we not accept their offer. I suppose we just wait to hear from them at this stage - the ball is in their court!

[bill-k]

Thanks for this, Bill K! That's what we thought, just making sure. The claim is now being 'defended' by Halifax. Initially we think this was just to get the extra 14 dyas to respond, however they did say that they would defend the extra money should we not accept their offer. I suppose we just wait to hear from them at this stage - the ball is in their court!

FWIW Wendy - a lot of the time, they announce they will defend. It gives them a further 28 days to do sod-all, while they expect you to be quaking in your boots and hopefully bottle out. Costs 'em nothing to do this, but gets them some time and it loses a few bottlers !!

 

Next trick is the AQ - which I believe can seem pretty scary. I've not had to do one of those, yet, so I'd be glad to hand over to someone here who has. But - hold your ground, as it is still more of a scare tactic than a genuine move. You just have to jump through the hoops - all the time saying to yourself "This is gonna cost you big time, you f***ers !!"

[Number6]

FWIW Wendy - a lot of the time, they announce they will defend. It gives them a further 28 days to do sod-all, while they expect you to be quaking in your boots and hopefully bottle out. Costs 'em nothing to do this, but gets them some time and it loses a few bottlers !!

 

Next trick is the AQ - which I believe can seem pretty scary. I've not had to do one of those, yet, so I'd be glad to hand over to someone here who has. But - hold your ground, as it is still more of a scare tactic than a genuine move. You just have to jump through the hoops - all the time saying to yourself "This is gonna cost you big time, you f***ers !!"

 

I fully agree with bill-k's comments.

 

The AQ is nothing to worry about at all. It's all taken care of on here so any questions and back you come.

 

Pete

[mcuth]

It gives them a further 28 days to do sod-all,

 

Well technically, only another 14 days because they get 14 days from date of service anyway - acknowledging the claim just gets them to 28 days from date of service

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[maroonfox5]

Don't worry AQ's are a doddle and are fully covered here on templates.

Halifax are pussycats when it comes to banks.

They argued oversome interest on my CCard claim but I wrote to them and fully explained the charge.

They replied very promptly with a full settlement.

as far as I'm aware HBOS generally don't ever go to AQ.

If your claim is for over £1,500 then I would use this as a lever against them in that they would incur a further £100 which would be added to your claim costs.

 

Regards

 

MF

[bill-k]

There ya go, Wendy - your own bunch of guardian angels - just like that !!

 

Cheers guys - and point taken, Michael, re: 14 days. Yes, it's actually just another 14 days they get, making 28 in total.

[bramble2000]

Hi, Please be patient with me, i am new

I live in scotland and am owed £1700 inc of interest @ 8%

how should i pursue this

should i raise three court actions to recover my money say for

sept01-sept-03 £600

octo3-sept 05 £500

oct05 -present day £600

or should i just claim for it all in a oner

please advise

[bill-k]

Hi Bramble, and welcome. You've just landed in the main "Contractual Interest" thread. This one is well worth checking out before you actually make your claim, but I would suggest you have a thorough read of the FAQ's, and some of the other theads as well.

 

It hurts, I know, but if you don't do this first, then any advice you're offered here may be of no real use, or it may just go right over your head !! There's no quick way of doing this, as I've discovered !! But you will be glad you took the time - I'm sure you will.

 

All the best with your claim,

 

Bill.

[Acerfan]

Hi,

Back again for some more advice I'm afraid. Got letter from HSBC in response to my refusal of f+f settlement & acceptance of partial refund with my updated schedule of charges. They've offered refund of all charges (it's gone down since original claim cos the've slipped off the 6 years & another slipped off on 29/11) but not a refund of interest. Didn't get a chance to fill in court forms last weekend so haven't gone any further than that, but I do want to get the interest back. Does anyone know if the mods have set up a thread for this as suggested? Had a look but I couldn't find one.

 

Just wondering maroonfox5 what your letter to Halifax stated about the interest (I've also got a claim with them where they've refused to pay interest) & whether you could PM me a copy? Please, pretty please?

 

Thanks again all you revolutionaries....

[bill-k]

Acerfan - Bong was going to ask about a separate thread, but that's all I know so far. I note that she helped with your earlier letter, so I won't say too much here. It's probably best if she comes back here later. It certainly looks to me that you simply have a choice - take the money & run, or see your original claim through to the end. Your choice, mate. As this is a big one for you, then I suspect the first choice, though tempting, is not the one you really want to take !!

[Acerfan]

You're right there bill-k, definitely want to go all the way, although the money would be useful right now!!!

[bill-k]

You're right there bill-k, definitely want to go all the way, although the money would be useful right now!!!

Yeah - damn right it would !! Hold yer nerve, mate !!

[technique]

I've been thinking for sometime about this question of interest. 8% seems a bit niggardly to me particularly when you think that the banks typically make 16% on overdrafts and far more on unauthorised borrowing.

 

I hadn't brought it up before but actually where a contract makes provision for a rate of interest to be paid on outstanding money, one does have the choice either of claiming that contractual rate of interest or merely claiming the 8% under the County Court act 1984.

 

So far we have been suggesting to everyone that they claimed the 8% because there is no express provision in the contract for a contractual rate of interest. However it seems to me to be quite arguable that there is an implied term in the bank contract based on the principle of "mutuality" or "reciprocity" -- in other words what is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander.

 

If this is correct then I think it is entirely reasonable to argue that where penalties have been unlawfully taken that this is the equivalent of borrowing by the bank and therefore the sum borrowed should attract a contractual rate of interest e.g. 16% - or if one wanted to say that the levying of penalties was unauthorised -- which of course it is -- then one could say that the contractual rate of interest was the unauthorised borrowing rate.

 

Maybe this latter rate is going a bit too far for the moment. However it seems to me that the bank's ordinary overdraft rate is entirely reasonable way to excercies mutuality.

 

 

An advantage of charging the contractual interest rate is that you can apply this even if the case does not go to court. The 8% is only available once the money is being claimed.

 

I can't see that this approach creates any risks for anyone unless it brings the amount claimed over the £5,000 limit. But if it doesn't then there is no problem. If the matter went to court then I would suggest that the N1 was worded to claim the contractual rate of interest or in the alternative, 8% pursuant to section 69 blah blah blah.

 

Of course if a claimant is attempting to recover the contractual rate of interest then the term (the implied term) has to be alleged in the particulars of claim.

 

 

 

Anyway there's the idea. Anyone got any comments?

 

Hi,My bank - Hali - is saying that I cannot claim contractual interest (in their case 29.8%) but only the 8% county court rate. I've submitted my MCOL claim and the claim has gone ahead - however the particulars of my claim was for contractual not 8% interest. I take your comments on board that it should be more than reasonable to suggest the contractual rate of interest as that is what they'd charged/made from me in the first place. However, now that it's in the hands of the courts is the bank correct that I can only claim 8%? If so, I'll be down half the claim amount. Plus my claim went over £5K by about £400 (minus court costs) so over by about £650. So with it being over £5K then how does that work? I also don't think I've quoted the implied term in my claim, all I've said is that I've claiming contractual interest - is that enough or have they got me on the ropes?

[bill-k]

Well, that's post #1 read, Technique. Only another 715 to go !!!

 

Been there - got the headache !!

[doryphor]

Ah yes, it's an epic itself, this thread. I spent the wee hours of one morning trawling its murky depths - mind you, there's an entertaining exchange towards the end about Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, if that floats your boat...

[technique]

I fully agree with bill-k's comments.

 

The AQ is nothing to worry about at all. It's all taken care of on here so any questions and back you come.

 

Pete

 

Sorry to sound dense but what's the AQ? I cannot see it on this page.

[doryphor]

Check the FAQs - it's the Allocation Questionnaire that you need to do after the defendant puts in a defence.

[tim2718281]

Hi,My bank - Hali - is saying that I cannot claim contractual interest (in their case 29.8%) but only the 8% county court rate.

 

What does your contract actually say about interest charges? The court will look at the exact wording and decide what it means.

 

Over in the Lloyds section, The Mindzai and Lucid thread has their claim; they say the wording in the contract about interest applies to all drawings from the account, including the money taken by the bank in charges.

 

It's a reasonable argument. The court may not agree with it, of course.

 

Tim

[natwesttookmymoney]

Acerfan-

"They've offered refund of all charges (it's gone down since original claim cos the've slipped off the 6 years & another slipped off on 29/11) but not a refund of interest."

What on earth are you thinking of?? Two things:

1. were those items within the 6 years when you began asking the bank for your money back? If yes, then there's no way they can 'slip out'. Tell them to s*d off.

2. Were you within six years of the OFT report in April this year, which is the first time you could reasonably be expected to know the banks' charges were unlawful given that they have consistently (and continue) to conceal the true nature of their charges, that they are penalties, not genuine pre-estimate of costs?

Yes, you were within 6 years of April 2006 when you started your claim??

Well, nothing has fallen out because of the Limitations Act. tell them to s*d off and give you your money.

Only a bit more politely than that. I'm sure you could even include 'sine qua non' and 'quad erat demonstrandum' in your letter, if you tried hard enough!

And don't forget the interest, either contractual or statutory (or both, if you've been in overdraft and can show the interest is a demonstrable loss). They had plenty of time to settle without interest before you issued the claim. They waited, now they have to cough up.

But I'm not a lawyer, so this is just my thoughts, not legal advice.

Best wishes

 

Westy

[Acerfan]

Hi Westy,

was advised on my own thread to send an updated list of charges removing the older ones which are now over 6 years old. Was this wrong? I sent them the updated schedule & that was their response. I definitely want to get as much as I can out of them, but going back on that would make me look a fool I think & as the LBA has run out & I'm just about to fill in the court forms, I think I'm going to have to stick with it.

 

However, any advice will be gratefully received.

[bill-k]

Hi Westy,

was advised on my own thread to send an updated list of charges removing the older ones which are now over 6 years old. Was this wrong? I sent them the updated schedule & that was their response. I definitely want to get as much as I can out of them, but going back on that would make me look a fool I think & as the LBA has run out & I'm just about to fill in the court forms, I think I'm going to have to stick with it.

 

However, any advice will be gratefully received.

 

Ace, is this any good ?

 

Send them a further, revised LBA with all the original claimed amount on. and giving them just a further 7 days. Explain to them that, as they have forced you to wait all this time instead of offering you full payment, you have spent the time researching further, and are now aware that you can claim back further than six years. Invite them to settle early and avoid any further expense (court costs, etc.)

 

You won't look a fool, and you'll be back on track.

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, Acerfan

I've posted a robust rebuttal to Lateralus on your thread.

If you haven't submitted your claim yet, you are not too late and you don't have to stick with it. You are only fully committed when your claim has gone in.

Claim everything to which you're entitled - that's the charges - all the charges, whenever deducted - and, if you've been in overdraft the bulk of the time, then contractual interest (what they've charged you) is a demonstrable financial loss you've suffered, also. Claim that in addition, and then the statutory 8 per cent on top.

Don't let them off the hook and don't be caught out by your own lack of knowledge. Look at other threads, especially successes, in the HSBC forum. The bank won't tell you if you've let them off lightly and invite you to amend your particulars of claim but your good pals on Bank Action Group will try and help you avoid making the mistakes in the first place.

Westy