Landlord withholding gas - help please

[MrShed]

Joa the reason we are having this discussion is that the landlord has not, in a LEGAL way, prevented access to services.

[Joa]

BB; can you spell it out for us, or at least for me, what were the actions of the l/lord with regards to the LPG supply. Try to be objective; I want facts, not your take on them.

[bottomburp]

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[Joa]

Mr Shed?

I appreciate that we have only one side of the story and it is unwise to charge with any recomendation in such situations. But! but if BB is correct (sorry BB, no offence, yeah?) what would be LEGAL about l/lord's actions here?

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

You seem to misunderstand me Joa. It is very easy for anyone to have an emotional opinion on a matter. I personally believe it is fairly deplorable the way the landlord is acting, and as a landlord myself, would in no way whatsoever consider the actions he is taking. However, I have still yet to see any provable legal infringements, which is a completely seperate issue to whether the LL is RIGHT to act as he is, which he clearly is not.

 

With respect Joa, and honestly no offence meant, but what BB needs right now is not a queue of people who are going to jump in and say "my god, what a horrible landlord, of course he is completely in the wrong", but people who can look at the whole balanced picture, and give removed rational accurate advice based upon the legalities of the situation. I am merely asking the questions, and putting my points, the way that a defendant would, and that a court may well listen to and even agree with. Therefore, I am preparing BB for every possible eventuality. At the end of the day, we do not write the law, may not agree with it, but we have to abide by its decisions, which may or may not be the morally correct outcome. I hope you agree with my sentiment here.

 

BB, did the landlord himself tell you he had instructed the gas supplier to prevent delivery? How do you know? Who told you?

 

*EDIT* oh and for the record, I believe everything that BB is saying, I have absolutely no reason not to - although you are correct that both sides should be heard before you can get the full 100% picture. However, it is still far from an open and shut case, legally speaking. The police and the courts are, after all, fairly resilient from getting involved in housing law breaches even when it is abundantly clear there has been a flagrant breach of the law. There has not been such clarity in this case.

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

IF you can somehow get this information on writing, or recorded(although recorded is probably not as good), or some witness to the conversation on speakerphone for example, you will suddenly have an extremely strong case against the LL for harrassment and unlawful eviction.

[bottomburp]

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[Joa]

MrShed, well said; emotional involvement is often harmful to the case. As a specialist housing adviser of 7 years experience i have learnt that lesson in a hard way.

i am therefore not talking out of my a*** and this is my emotionally removed, rationall, accurate advice: the l/lord is acting illegally, he is not only breaching the convenant of "quiet enjoyment" (which is much wider term traditionally understood as "not disturbing") but his actions amount to harassment. period.

[MrShed]

Joa, other than the fact that the LL has contacted the gas supplier to prevent delivery(which we have only just established) I would be interested to know what else the landlord has done that constitutes harrassment or breaking quiet enjoyment rules. Refusing to buy the gas certainly does neither, as that is his choice to do so - he is not obliged to act as middleman for the gas supply.

 

BB: Perhaps worth trying to record a conversation and then ask for it in writing - you may find they suddenly clam up once you ask for confirmation in writing. Also worth asking if they would object to you giving their name as a witness.

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

In that case I apologise - I obviously missed that! And no I missed that thread as well. In which case obviously yes it is clearly harrassment!!

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

Ensure you keep a detailed log of all events with the landlord. Keep as much proof as possible. Basically, you need to contact the police, and you may need to ram it down their throat before they do anything. It may also be worth considering taking him to small claims for damages.

[Joa]

I would be interested to know what else the landlord has done that constitutes harrassment or breaking quiet enjoyment rules.

simple; breach of quiet enjoyment: intereference with tenant's right to undisturbed occupation, where tenant's rights are not respected and adversely affected by landlord's actions.

 

the l/lord stopped the delivery of the gas, he doesn't need to do "anything else". his actions caused for the vital service not to be delivered.

 

such severe interference with "quiet enjoyment" consitutes harassment.

 

I agree that he doesn't have to act as middleman, but he has got his name of the gas account and exerts influence on the provider.

 

the court would ask; what or who caused for the service to be withheld?

the l/lord would say: the tenant did not pay the bill

the tenant would then show all the paid bills and l/lord's statement confirming that the tank was full on commencement of the tenancy

the court would then ask: why was the services not provided in view of these documents?

the tenant would have to explain that the landlord contacted the provider and tell them not to deliver the gas,

the court would then decide, on balance of probabilities whose story is more probable.

 

if we are all clear that the withholding of services amounts to harassment and the client goes to court to claim damages- whose story is more probable?

[bottomburp]

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[Joa]

And what action can I take against the LL for this harassment?

And what do we do to make the council take action?

 

BB, visit Community Legal Service Direct

go to : do I qualify for legal aid

then: search for legal adviser or solicitor

 

I would not advise any further without seeing any documents. You need to take it further now. And start looking for somewhere else to live. The relationship with your l/lord has obviously broken down completely.

The issue of deposit for a new place, references, being placed on a local housing register needs to be discussed too.

MrShed, what do you think?

[MrShed]

Make an official police complaint if they will not listen. But it IS a criminal matter, and they MUST take notice eventually.

[bottomburp]

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[bottomburp]

Joa, I'm looking at the link now - thank you.

[Joa]

BB, for the sake of your sanity; can you get out of the area?

sometimes the best action is to draw the line under a part of you life and move on. do what you need to find a new place, hand in your notice to quit and counterclaim (illegal eviction) when the landlord pursues you for breach of contract. honestly, i rarely ever would dare to advise to leave the tenancy early as we all need to respect the fact that this is a legally binding contract, but in your circumstances: GO, for the love of God, go if you can.

[bottomburp]

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[Joa]

i am not very good at cheering people up....i wish i was....you'll be allright though. apparently experiences like this make you stronger....yeah?

is there a guaranteed rent scheme in your area? or a service in your local authority that helps with a deposit? just so you can move out even without the money from the bank?

[bottomburp]

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