Landlord withholding gas - help please

[bottomburp]

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[bottomburp]

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[knoxvillain]

http://www.communities.gov.uk/pub/973/MylandlordwantsmeoutprotectionagainstharassmentandillegalevictionPDF547Kb_id1151973.pdf

 

Withdrawal of services

There is no electricity because the landlord has not paid the bill or has

disconnected the supply.

A landlord may be guilty of an offence if he or she persistently withdraws

or withholds services which are necessary for the tenant to be able to

live in the property. Where a landlord is bound under the tenancy

agreement to pay for electricity, gas and water supplies, and these are

cut off because the bills have not been paid, the local authority has

powers to restore the supplies, and charge the costs to the landlord.

 

just noticed it's for Wales but I imagine England is similar if not the same.

[knoxvillain]

A Landlord can commit the offence or illegal eviction by:

• Trying to evict you from your home following the legal procedure for this
  
• Behaving in a way intended to interfere with the peace and comfort
  
• Withholding or withdrawing services reasonably required by you to occupy the premises

[knoxvillain]

Taken from Citylets > Services > Advice

 

14. What must a landlord do before gaining possession?

 

 

 

 

 

 

He must do 3 things:

1 . serve on the tenant a notice to quit [if the tenancy is a statutory assured tenancy, this will almost certainly have been done when the original contractual tenancy was terminated - it may not have been if the statutory assured tenancy arises through succession (see question 32))j

2. serve on the tenant a notice of proceedings indicating he is taking proceedings to gain

possession; and

3. obtain an order for possession from the sheriff court.

15. What if a landlord seeks possession without doing these 3 things?

It is a criminal offence for anyone to turn a tenant out of his home without a Court Order or to try to make him leave by intimidation, violence, withholding services such as gas or electricity, or any other sort of interference. [it is not a legitimate excuse for a landlord to say that he did not intend his actions to harass his tenant or force him to leave. An offence will still have occurred if he should have known that his actions would be taken by the tenant to be harassment to make him leave]. If anyone tries to force a tenant to leave his home by intimidation or any other form of harassment, the tenant should contact the police immediately.

A landlord found guilty of illegal eviction may be liable to pay damages to the evicted tenant. The level of damages will be based on any financial benefit to the landlord from having a house with vacant possession instead of a house with a sitting tenant.

All this applies to short assured tenancies as well as to other assured tenancies.

[bottomburp]

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[knoxvillain]

You could try writing him a strong letter and enclose a copy of the booklet informing him he is breaking the law and unless he puts gas in the tank you will report him to the council and/or police.

[Joa]

In that letter I would give a very tight deadline and immediately upon expiry I would call the police, council etc. Also, it seems to me that by now it would be entirely reasonable to reduce your rent until the situation is sorted. Tell him about it in your letter.

I would not normally advise to reduce rent payments but if all other attempts of negotation failed and you have behaved reasonably throughout the dispute, that remedy is available to you and no judge, in my experience, would look unfavourably at this. Make sure that you spell it out to your l/lord why, by how much, from when (next payment date) and till when.

Now, it is difficult to pinpoint by how much; you could argue though that in a winter weather, with a small child, and with the fact that your LPG is necessary for heating the space and water (am I correct?), the reduction can be quite substantial, as much as 20%, 25%.

What do others think?

[bottomburp]

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[bottomburp]

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[knoxvillain]

Not ideal but at least you know you have a way of getting gas. Then just ask the supplier to call you a couple of days before they deliver next to give you time to pay each time. Make sure you get RECEIPTS to protect yourself.

 

I know you've said you've reported your neighbours harassment but I would also look into reporting your landlord for harassment for withdrawing heating. If you need to, GO TO the police station and ask to make a complaint.

[bottomburp]

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[bottomburp]

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[knoxvillain]

That's great that you've got someone in the council on your side and who's willing to take action

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

Lol I give in trying to persuade you you should pay I still think that you should, but have lost the urge to bang my head against a brick wall anymore. Dont get me wrong, I do not think the landlord is "in the right" per se, I just think you are fighting the wrong battle, and are missing some glaringly obvious points. What I mean by this is that I think where your landlord is in the wrong is in attempting to enforce you to have the tank topped up AT THE END of the tenancy, not in getting you to pay for gas YOU ARE USING. Besides, this is a much easier battle to fight(you simply dont top it up, and dont pay the last months rent - use the deposit!), AND it gets your gas straight back on. The glaringly obvious point I refer to is that you have zero basis or proof, based upon what you have so far said, to jump to the assumption that the tank was NOT 100% full when you moved in. To be honest, I am kind of bewildered as to how you have came to this conclusion.

 

Anyhoo, as I say I give up! But I wish you best of luck in resolving it.

[MrShed]

The only other thing I would say(having thought about it!!!) is can you post the exact text of the clause in your tenancy agreement with regards the gas supply please?

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

If he did take you to court, I guarantee he would lose, so long as you keep every invoice he has provided. It doesnt make a blind bit of difference what the tank was when you started, ended, or what it was agreed it should have been - the landlord CANNOT legally charge you more for the gas you have physically used than it has cost him. Therefore any court case will immediately be lost once you provide to the court the invoice for £480(with that date on) and proof of you paying it.

 

And anyway, where will he sue you at when you leave?

 

OK apparently I havent given up!!

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

Based upon that, you have no obligation to pay the landlord for the LPG, you can pay directly, and the landlord can do nothing. Just ensure you do not pay the last months rent so he does not try and reclaim it that way!!

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

Well, BB, that is actually a lot more complex a question than it first looks, and I shall tell you the reasons why:

 

- You would struggle to prove the landlord is trying to force you out(although, it should also be noted, that the crime of unlawful eviction does NOT require proof of intent, but harrassment may).

 

The landlord could be classed as one of two things in the process of your gas purchasing:

 

- Simply a middleman between you and the gas supplier. In which case he is not cutting off your utilities, but just saying he will not perform this middleman role until you pay him. You can still go direct.

 

- As the supplier, in which case he has disconnected you due to arrears in the gas account. Again, nothing has prevented you from going elsewhere, or paying the(as you believe, flawed) balance to "reconnect". In this case, it would be no different from British Gas disconnecting you if you did not pay.

 

As the AST does not state that the landlord is responsible for paying for utilities, which the tenant must then reimburse, the landlord has not actually breached anything IMO.

 

HOWEVER, if he were to attempt to prevent(by contacting them or similar) the gas company from delivering you more gas, this would be a completely different matter.

 

Basically, to sum up, in my opinion there has been no harrassment or unlawful eviction attempt(YET), unlike if he had, for example, been the only possible supplier of the utility or had asked a gas supplier to disconnect you. But, I must admit to not being 100% certain, as his exact legal position with regards to the supply of the gas is fairly ambiguous, and is certainly an unusual case. However, there is a distinct possibility that he may cross this line in the near future by trying to get the gas company not to deliver. At this point, he is definitely guilty of harrassment and unlawful eviction.

[Joa]

what is this all about? why are we having this discussion? no court in the land would agree that the landlord is behaving reasonably by withholding services in the middle of the winter and by not allowing for any negotiation. the landlord doesn't even have to physically turn the tenant out to be charged with illegal eviction. if BB was my client i would be first of all advising to find a new property (i know,not easy without references but possible), writing to the l/lord a stonking, stinking letter, advising rent reduction, assessing for legal aid and referring to a solicitor with a view to claim damages. no faffing about ; the facts are king, and the facts are; the l/lord gives client a statement saying the tank is full, as agreed. But wait, what is it?!...ow, it's the bill, dated the same day as aforementioned statement, saying that the tank was not full. so which is it? full or not?

next fact; the l/lord is instrumental in preventing client's access to services; provider or middleman. to get your utilities cut off by let's say british gas is a long process and only used a last resource. providers are eager to negotiate as it is better for them to have some money rather then nowt. they would advise of alternatives like fitting a meter, applying for a grant to Energy Trust etc. the l/lord, on the other hand, does not seem to follow any reasonable steps.

 

BB might be in a position that she is unable to fork out nearly 500 quid and is forced to fight her corner. it would be lovely if she could just say, ooh, sod it, i'll pay now and then leave the tank half-full on departure. but it's 500 quid! is no small change. and it's bleeding cold.

illegal eviction? damn right.

[bottomburp]

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