Excel ANPR PCN Letter Of Claim - Appealed - Gallagher retail park, Huddersfield, HD5 0AN

[WarriorRage]

I was pointed in the direction of this site

I have a Letter before claim.

Ive flown solo aside from my own efforts on Google and would have thought they would have gone away by now but still they come.

Hope you can help in any final response I give to the LBC. 

I think I've followed the instructions correctly.

Should I also attach  the LBC? TIA

1 Date of the infringement 26/11/2023

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] Unsure as disposed of it although it was within a few days

3 Date received Was within a few days

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Dont recall

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes on entry and exit 13 minutes over the "permitted time". The photos show driving in and out. This is a busy car park and it can take 10-15 minutes to find a spot and exit

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Yes principle argument was I wasnt the driver. The driver was not happy for me to share their personal data however they were happy and i did submit bank statement showing the driver was a legitimate customer of 3 of the retailers at the retail park. The appeal was submitted on their website  I dont have a copy other than their response to it (included in bundle)

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Rejected

7 Who is the parking company? Excel Parking 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Gallagher retail park, Huddersfield, HD5 0AN

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

IAS - I didnt appeal any further although did write to them again with another template I found (cant recall from where - it could have been from here) as attached

 

Comms in-out.pdf

[Bazooka Boo]

Hmm, did you get that lot from an FMOTL site? Bad advice unfortunately.

IMO ignore them until/unless they issue a claim, the responses you have received are simply computer-generated at the minute, and no one is reading your correspondence.

NEVER appeal, they ALWAYS reject, and then you enter into pointless letter tennis.

It may be prudent to obtain the NTK and any other relevant info/correspondence you've binned, especially the NTK because that will show if they are following the PofA act correctly, if not then they can only chase the driver.

[FTMDave]

BB - the OP says they are already at Letter of Claim stage.

Warrior - before going any further, let's deal with the matter of naming the driver.

Excel and their sister company VCS are very well known to us.  They have a company policy of issuing court claims against huge numbers of motorists who don't pay them, maybe the majority.  Therefore, however you respond, you're likely to have to see them off in court.

Winning in court is not a problem, but be aware that's where the winning will probably be.  I once went through old cases and worked out that Caggers won against these companies in court around 85% of the time.

Presumably they have this disgusting policy because there must be large numbers of people who cave in when court papers arrive, so Excel/VCS can take on the chin the number who have the staying power to go all the way and beat them.

So - do you want to name the driver to them and remove yourself from the loop?

Or are you happy to keep fighting them yourself?  We will of course back you up all the way.

Edited April 10 by FTMDave
Typo

[Nicky Boy]

Please upload the letter of claim.

Also at this point the advice is to write a "snotty letter", to show you'd be a real pain if they pursue you through the courts.

Use our search bar to search for snotty letter.

Please post up what you propose sending, to let the team critique it

Also have a read around this forum, to give you an idea of the lowlife's you're dealing with here. (also to find out why it's pointless appealing.)

Sorry, crossposted with Dave.

ps well done on not "outing" the driver in your appeal.

[Homer67]

As the parking charge reason appears to be a 13 minute overstay I'd say this one has got not chance in Court as the minimum allowance is 10 minutes so they are trying it on because the car park was busy and it took you an extra 3 minutes to get out.

Write the snotty letter and post it up here before you send it to be checked and stay off FMOTL wibble wobble sites, that pathway leads to nothing but trouble.

[WarriorRage]

Thanks all.

If I out the driver Id still be the one dealing with it and paying any fines

I've defended myself successfully in a smalls claims court before with a 3rd party car insurance company

I don't mind going all they way .

LBC attached.

Ill get working on the snotty letter and post shortly.

Thanks again

 

2024-03-21 Excel PAPLOC.pdf

[dx100uk]

it is NOT A FINE.....this is an extremely important point to understand

no-one bar a magistrate in a magistrates criminal court can ever fine anyone for anything.

Private Parking Tickets (speculative invoices) are NOT a criminal matter, merely a speculative contractual Civil matter

hence they can only try a speculative monetary claim via the civil county court system (which is no more a legal powers matter than what any member of Joe Public can do).

Until/unless they do raise a county court claim a CCJ and win, there are not ANY enforcement powers they can undertake other than using a DCA, whom are legally powerless and are not BAILIFFS.

Penalty Charge Notices issued by local authorities etc were decriminalised years ago - meaning they no longer can progress a claim to the magistrates court to enforce, but go directly to legal enforcement via a real BAILIFF themselves.

10'000 of people waste £m's paying private parking companies because they think they are FINES...and the media do not help either.

the more people read the above the less income this shark industry get.

............

 

thread title updated

PDF files properly named

[WarriorRage]

Snotty Letter Draft 1:

Thank you for your Letter Before Claim

I am 2-0 up in terms of Small Claim Court Proceedings so I look forward to the opportunity to claim a Hat Trick, this being more straight forward than my previous two cases.

Thank you for also agreeing to the terms of my previous letter and please find enclosed my invoice for £50 which should be paid by cheque within 28 days of this letter.

I will be asking the court to consider the time I spend defending this absurd claim in line with the fees you have already agreed to.

Despite my best endeavours you still are of the belief I have breached your terms. I cannot breach terms that I was not present to accept.

Did you even read my initial response?

Maybe have another read and save yourself some money.

I look forward to your solicitor trying to settle with me in the waiting area before we go into the chambers. I will have my final invoice ready for them less any payments you have already made.

Yours faithfully

Xxxxxxxx

Enc – Invoice for processing of Letter Before Claim

[Nicky Boy]

Nice snotty tone, BUT, remove all reference to sending them invoices, etc.

You are expressing a lack of knowledge by using Freeman of the Land stuff.

This will only embolden them, thinking you're an easy target.

Upload Ver 2 when you're ready

[FTMDave]

How about these changes?  There's a hint there about the consideration & grace periods without actually spelling it out.  They must know that means their case is rubbish.  However, they are very, very litigious.

Dear Simple Simon,

Re: your invoice no.XXXXX

thank you for your Letter Before Claim

I am 2-0 up in terms of Small Claim Court Proceedings so I look forward to the opportunity to claim a Hat Trick, this being more straight forward than my previous two cases.

I will be asking the court for an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) due to your conduct over this absurd claim.

Despite my best endeavours you still are of the belief I have breached your terms. I cannot breach terms that I was not present to accept.

Did you even read my initial response?  Maybe have another read and save yourself some money.

While you're at it have a butcher's at section 13 of the IPC Code of Practice, 2023 edition, dumbo.

I look forward to your deafening silence.

Yours sincerely

Xxxxxxxx

Edited April 10 by FTMDave
Typo

[WarriorRage]

Amazing. Thanks. Do I just send the letter or should I return their forms as well even if incomplete. I'm  certainly not sharing my I& E!

[dx100uk]

you ignore the forms totally

dx

[FTMDave]

Yes, the snotty letter should not respect any of Simple Simon's systems.

Invest in a 2nd class stamp tomorrow and get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

However, watch out that Simon throws claim forms around like confetti.  The snotty letter might convince Excel that you are more trouble than you're worth or they may chance it anyway.

[lookinforinfo]

It's a shame that you threw away the original PCN. That document lays out their claim plus includes the wording in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 .If they get the wording right they can then transfer the liability form the driver to the keeper if the charge is not paid within 28 days. The Act has been in force for 12 years now so the braindead at Excel still haven't probably managed to do it right yet  

So it's good that you have not as yet named the driver. If the PCN is incorrectly worded then neither yourself nor the driver can be pursued. You can send them an SAR where the should send you the details that have on you including the original PCN.  If they fail to respond in the allotted time you can sue them and when they send you their Witness Statement they have to include their first PCN.

I expect they are using ANPR to record your  time in the car park. Sadly for them that is not the parking period since there is some driving involved in getting to a parking place and then driving from there to the exit plus being held up en route because of traffic, pedestrians etc.

On top of that there is a Consideration period and a grace period which are 5 minutes and 10 minutes respectively. These times are MINIMUMS something that the ignoramuses at Excel have failed to grasp so do not worry- your hat trick is in sight.

[FTMDave]

It is interesting that we had absolutely nothing on this car park - and now there are two cases within a few days of each other.  Do you know if these parking restrictions are recent?  if so there is stuff in the industry Codes of Practice about the change having to be made apparent with special signs, none of which Excel will have put up.